Pelikan 400 (different vintage versions)

[UkeDan]

Just checked the length of my cap with Werner Ruettinger's site and it measures under 6 cm, likely 57 mm, so that would rule out the wrong cap on my pen. I also noticed on THIS ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-RARE-Pelikan-400-N-BLACK-STRIPED-Near-Mint-/270713318454 that the " + " sign is on the 400N's cap ring. And the back of my clip does read " 400N ". I'm confused, but fully convinced of the incremental changes described above...

 

 

Edited to add that if one clicks on the picture of the two caps IN THE DESCRIPTION of the listing the plus mark appears very clearly.

Edited March 15, 2011 by UkeDan

[UkeDan]

After further investigation (with a digital caliper) the cap measures 6cm, so it's a 400N cap on a 400 barrel with 400 blind cap.

 

I was under the impression that 400N caps didn't fit on 400 barrels but obviously, that assumption was erroneous.

[UkeDan]

Alas:

 

 

All the parts of this pen have the same overall level of usage (rather light - including the brassing -, but still there is some usage..), the nib is period authentic and the barrel is clearly written Pelikan 400 Gunther Wagner Germany (and not W. Germany as in the early M400 or late 400NN).

 

The blind cap is ostensibly that of a 400: not rounded like the 400N and not bullet shaped like the 400NN. It's in the same overall condition as the section and the cap.

 

There is that extra + sign within the script on the cap band that I've only seen on the 400N and the back of the clip is clearly marked 400N.

 

So either someone replaced the cap - maybe a long time ago - with a much rarer cap (less likely), or the cap was replaced by the factory in 1955 (likely) or my pen may be an end-of-the-run 400 barrel and blind cap fitted with a then new 400N cap (equally likely).

 

Then again, who knows?

 

Hope this may have helped the OP.

 

BTW this ebay listing shows a pen with the same characteristics: http://cgi.cafr.ebay.ca/Pelikan-Piston-Fountain-Pen-400-black-green-nib-585-/270711871836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f07af595c

 

Edited for typos. And to add that yes, it writes really well and is getting regular use. And to add the link.

Edited March 20, 2011 by UkeDan

[UkeDan]

I've now seen many such "transitional' 400's on ebay and elsewhere, with what the op stated as:

 

'The cap band states on the "transitional" 400 (4), "Pelikan 400 Pelikan 400 +".'

 

They are in fact 400N caps on late 400's.

 

Such as this past sale on marketplace:

 

1955 Pelikan 400 ...

 

Seems there's a case for a "transitional" 400... Too many similar cases.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The little + or x other little marks that one finds on cap ring of the older Pelikans, I believe are Quality Control marks.

 

Rudiger didn't know what they were.

 

I have three from the '50's and each has a different mark on the cap ring.

 

With so many folks here having the '50's-65 Pelikans, perhaps we can find a pattern.

Cuneiform like straight base mark with an 'arrow' on 400NN's,

X on 120's,

and + and a tinier x on the 140.

 

If the caps were all marked one way ie a single X on the 120's or if each cap has different marks, would indicate QC mark.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[UkeDan]

Hi Bo Bo. Interesting angle. For the sake of a possible pattern, my 400 has a crisp "+" on the cap ring somewhere between one of the three "Pelikan 400"s, and 400N stamped on the underside of the clip, just below with the "W". I may try posting a picture tonight during the Canadiens - Bruins hockey playoffs game. Then again ...

[Bo Bo Olson]

In 1953 one of the most frighting things I saw as a five year old was 'mad eyed' "Rocket" Richard going down the ice with out a helmet of course.

So I liked "Pocket Rocket"; he was not so frighting. Ice hockey was big in the east then. I use to watch it on one of the Two TV channels in Miami, having come down from the north.

The Canadians were always on TV like Notra Dame.

 

All time greats have come and gone in all the sports and I've never seen them. Outside of Fussball. I'm not much into sports any more, but was once a Boston fan all down the line.

 

I could watch boring baseball games, for free. Yesterday's games so I'd not know who won. But the three minute blank green screen between every inning is too much.

Believe it or not once baseball games were 60-90 minutes long. Players ran out of the dug out to get back to bat.

Last time I was in the States, in the middle of a normal 3 hour baseball game. I'd turn on cooking shows.

 

I was lucky once and saw a local collage game on TV...real old fashioned 'no commercial' Baseball. Great.

 

Go Canadians! Why not? I was a Canadian fan before I was a Bruin fan and it's been a life time since Phil Esposito and Bobby Ore.

[UkeDan]

I saw Rocket's brother Henri play when I was a kid. My grandfather woke us up after our parents left for their Saturday night dances. Fond memories...

 

BTW the Canadiens won 2 - 0 over Boston, taking the first game of the series.

 

My 2 kids stayed up late watching the game. I also showed them pics of the Rocket, Maurice Richard. Over the years there have been many stars like Guy Lafleur, Ken Dryden, Matts Naslund (from Sweden), Carbonneau, Savard, before them Beliveau... so many. Today it's Gionta and Hall Gill and PK Suban and the goalie Carey Price.

 

Yep, they're off for another run for the Stanley Cup.

[blbjdtny]

Hey Bo Bo, The Habs of 1953 are so superior of the Habs of 2011. I grew up in Montreal and cheered for Guy Lafleur and Larry Robinson, don't get me wrong, I loved the Habs up until 1995, now they mean nothing to me, but Boston is a true hockey team. Notably, when referring to Bobby Orr, please, at least get his name correct for the public forum, it's ORR never Ore. Bobby Orr was a legend, and a true hockey great. As much as I may hate the Bruins, Bobby Orr was a true hero, and the Bruins of today are a much better team than Montreal and the midget unit. Cheers, Bryan

[UkeDan]

The midget unit? C'mon they blasted the Bruins last night. That's why I mentioned Matts Naslund. PK Subban and Camarelli - the so-called midget unit (units rather, like through the ages afa Naslund is concerned...) - kept the goons - sorry the bruins - in check and they'll win the series... Gionta, Scott Gomez, Price... no match. Max in 6 games.

Edited April 16, 2011 by UkeDan

[UkeDan]

Forgot to add that the Habs (Canadiens) of 1976 - 1979 were also an excellent lineup winning 4 straight Stanley cups - unmatched to date.

[UkeDan]

I promised a picture of the clip and also the "+" mark.

Here's the underside of the clip:

 

And the dissassembled clip:

 

And the "+" sign:

 

And my pen:

 

Tonight: 2nd game... Go Habs Go!

 

 

Edited to replace a picture with a clearer one.

Edited April 16, 2011 by UkeDan

[ele]

I've owned a few later 400s (with correct clips) with the + seen above, but it seems a smaller + was used on some earlier 400s--I have a script-nib pen with no cap band markings other than a small + towards the bottom of the band. I bought it mint, so I think the parts are correct.



Another mystery: during what years did they put date stamps on the barrels? I had a black stripe 400 that had a "55" engraved lengthwise above the GUNTHER WAGNER band at the piston knob-end of the barrel, but I have yet to come across another pen with such a marking.

Edited March 26, 2017 by ele

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sigh, in the 400n is so hard to tell with only the slight different rounding of the piston cap....I thought I had One! A Tortoise one at that.

Having read Werner Ruettinger,com closer. The 400n had a longer cap than the 400. Sigh, cubed.

A WOG they were checking the balance point of the medium-long 400nn. After some two to three years of checking I finally decided the 400nn balanced the slightest tad better than my '90's M400.

(No, I'm not going to waste time checking if the four '50's 400's have better balance than my M400 tortoise.

 

Hey....I have a 400 Tortoise!!!!!

 

Later got a 500 Tortoise too....in the same week as the ex-400n...after my Grail Pen money burnt a hole in my pocket and all those Pelikans followed the money crumbs from the wharf to my house.

(five and a double Pelikan pen stand)

 

 

Gee, I now have enough vintage Pelikans to check for quality control marks.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[hungpk]

I think you may find some useful information with pelikan-collectibles.com .