Old style M805?

[drifting]

When did the M805 come into production? Did the old style M8xx with the medallion (or whatever it should be called) ever come with silver trim? I understand that some collectors consider the original style 'the M8xx', and I was curious if there were 'original' M805s out there.

 

Ryan.

[gyasko]

No, there aren't. The Mxx5s came after the new style.

 

If you ask me, the new style is better. It's less blingy.

[diplomat]

No, there aren't. The Mxx5s came after the new style.

 

If you ask me, the new style is better. It's less blingy.

 

Why "blingy"? Just because of the cap ends? But they are almost unnoticeables. IMHO the difference is in the nib: the old 14kt flex has an appeal that the current 18kt has not.

 

Best,

[QM2]

Could somebody point me to images of what's considered the older style?

[diplomat]

QM2, this is an auction with pictures. Essentially an old style M800 is a regular M800 with three main differences:

- end caps have a gold disc (top cap is engraved with the logo)

- cap band has the "W.Germany" inscribed

- the nib is the semiflex 14kt versus the current 18kt

 

As always, same ol' cautions: detail may overlap: new version M800 could have 14kt nibs and OS M800 may have "Germany" on the cap band.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Ciao,

[MarkTrain]

QM2, this is an auction with pictures. Essentially an old style M800 is a regular M800 with three main differences:

- end caps have a gold disc (top cap is engraved with the logo)

- cap band has the "W.Germany" inscribed

- the nib is the semiflex 14kt versus the current 18kt

 

As always, same ol' cautions: detail may overlap: new version M800 could have 14kt nibs and OS M800 may have "Germany" on the cap band.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Ciao,

 

Some more details. The 14kt nibs were only used in the first year of production (1987?) of the 800 and 18Kt nibs were soon added to upmarket the pen. While the vast majority of 800's, both new and old style, have 18kt nibs, there are small differences between the 18 Kt nibs used on the new and old style 800's. The first production of 18kt nibs had an oval hallmark with the letters E|N and were more flexible and better made than the those used later on the new style. There were also some 20Kt nibs for special Asian production.

 

Mark

 

[diplomat]

QM2, this is an auction with pictures. Essentially an old style M800 is a regular M800 with three main differences:

- end caps have a gold disc (top cap is engraved with the logo)

- cap band has the "W.Germany" inscribed

- the nib is the semiflex 14kt versus the current 18kt

 

As always, same ol' cautions: detail may overlap: new version M800 could have 14kt nibs and OS M800 may have "Germany" on the cap band.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Ciao,

 

Some more details. The 14kt nibs were only used in the first year of production (1987?) of the 800 and 18Kt nibs were soon added to upmarket the pen. While the vast majority of 800's, both new and old style, have 18kt nibs, there are small differences between the 18 Kt nibs used on the new and old style 800's. The first production of 18kt nibs had an oval hallmark with the letters E|N and were more flexible and better made than the those used later on the new style. There were also some 20Kt nibs for special Asian production.

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark to clarify that. I discovered then that I have a "first year" M800.

There are no (visible) marks on the nib, nor the E|N you mentioned or the PF. Does that make sense? Is it a Bock nib then?

 

Thank you again.

 

Andre

 

[MarkTrain]

Thanks Mark to clarify that. I discovered then that I have a "first year" M800.

There are no (visible) marks on the nib, nor the E|N you mentioned or the PF. Does that make sense? Is it a Bock nib then?

 

Thank you again.

 

Andre

 

Hi,

 

From what you describe it could well be if the nib was original. 14k nibs could be obtained later on (e.g. Mottishaw) and that's how I got one. The E|N hallmark appears to be some sort of French hallmarking for gold and is only on 18K nibs, but what E and N stand for is not clear. I think the PF hallmark and the use of Bock nibs came much later, so the assumption is that these early nibs were made by Pelikan but that has never been confirmed.

 

Mark

 

[Daniel7]

Thanks Mark to clarify that. I discovered then that I have a "first year" M800.

There are no (visible) marks on the nib, nor the E|N you mentioned or the PF. Does that make sense? Is it a Bock nib then?

 

Thank you again.

 

Andre

 

Hi,

 

From what you describe it could well be if the nib was original. 14k nibs could be obtained later on (e.g. Mottishaw) and that's how I got one. The E|N hallmark appears to be some sort of French hallmarking for gold and is only on 18K nibs, but what E and N stand for is not clear. I think the PF hallmark and the use of Bock nibs came much later, so the assumption is that these early nibs were made by Pelikan but that has never been confirmed.

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

A little question, I've bought back in the mid 90s a black M800, as I wanted a OBB nib, the pens was specially ordered and I had to wait a bit to get it from the factory. Now the funny thing is, that the back of the filling nob has the golden plate, but the logo on the cap is just printed , the cap ring only mentions Germany and the nib is a 18k nib with the PF mark. How does this work out? Should I suppose that they mixed old style and new style elements?

Cheers,

 

Daniel

[QM2]

Thanks for the information about the differences between the old and new style. I have seen the older style pens in Vienna, but assumed this was a special edition of some sort. Now I understand.

[drifting]

Thanks, all!

 

As always, I'm very impressed with the FPN hive mind.

 

Ryan.

[gyasko]

No, there aren't. The Mxx5s came after the new style.

 

If you ask me, the new style is better. It's less blingy.

 

Why "blingy"? Just because of the cap ends? But they are almost unnoticeables. IMHO the difference is in the nib: the old 14kt flex has an appeal that the current 18kt has not.

 

 

I think the gold discs are tacky. I do notice the one on mine.

 

I have 3 14k 800 nibs, and only the one with added flex is remotely flexible.

[MarkTrain]

Hi Mark,

 

A little question, I've bought back in the mid 90s a black M800, as I wanted a OBB nib, the pens was specially ordered and I had to wait a bit to get it from the factory. Now the funny thing is, that the back of the filling nob has the golden plate, but the logo on the cap is just printed , the cap ring only mentions Germany and the nib is a 18k nib with the PF mark. How does this work out? Should I suppose that they mixed old style and new style elements?

Cheers,

 

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

 

If the pen was from the mid 90s (pre 1997) and the filling knob has the medallion and the cap ring has only Pelikan Germany and no Souveran, then the pen would be an old style pen. But a silk-screened logo on the cap instead of the cutout gold-plated medallion shown below would indicate that it was made from parts from both series.

Old style cap:

Also another question is whether the "PF mark" actually has the letters PF or EN as it is difficult to tell without using a loupe. The switch from nibs marked EN to PF was made sometime in the 90's, but because older nibs were used up first it is difficult to determine when the transition was made (my blue-striped old style 800 from ~1996 came with an EN marked nib).

 

Mark

Edited February 18, 2009 by MarkTrain

[Daniel7]

Hi Mark,

 

A little question, I've bought back in the mid 90s a black M800, as I wanted a OBB nib, the pens was specially ordered and I had to wait a bit to get it from the factory. Now the funny thing is, that the back of the filling nob has the golden plate, but the logo on the cap is just printed , the cap ring only mentions Germany and the nib is a 18k nib with the PF mark. How does this work out? Should I suppose that they mixed old style and new style elements?

Cheers,

 

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

 

If the pen was from the mid 90s (pre 1997) and the filling knob has the medallion and the cap ring has only Pelikan Germany and no Souveran, then the pen would be an old style pen. But a silk-screened logo on the cap instead of the cutout gold-plated medallion shown below would indicate that it was made from parts from both series.

Old style cap:

Also another question is whether the "PF mark" actually has the letters PF or EN as it is difficult to tell without using a loupe. The switch from nibs marked EN to PF was made sometime in the 90's, but because older nibs were used up first it is difficult to determine when the transition was made (my blue-striped old style 800 from ~1996 came with an EN marked nib).

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Thank you for the information, I am as usual impressed by all that knowledge, this is why FPN is such a great place.

I looked with the loupe and it's clearly a PF mark, the cap logo looks like you say and yes the cap ring only mentions Pelikan Germany.

Thus it seems to be a mixed pen.

Thank you again for that valuable information.

Cheers,

 

 

Daniel

 

[eric47]

Some more details. The 14kt nibs were only used in the first year of production (1987?) of the 800 and 18Kt nibs were soon added to upmarket the pen. While the vast majority of 800's, both new and old style, have 18kt nibs, there are small differences between the 18 Kt nibs used on the new and old style 800's. The first production of 18kt nibs had an oval hallmark with the letters E|N and were more flexible and better made than the those used later on the new style. There were also some 20Kt nibs for special Asian production.

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

 

I stumbled on this thread, and I think you may have provided the answer to something that has nagged me for years. Where is exactly is the hallmark usually located? Looking from the back of the pen down the barrel, is it located on the right side of the nib, very close to collar? How big is it...roughly 1 mm at the widest part of the oval?

 

Here's the story. I have an 18K monotone nib (for which pen I don't remember) which I bought on closeout from Pelikan's ex-US distributor back in the 90s. Size-wise it's really close to an M400 (old style monotone) and M600 (two-tone) nibs I have. There may be some differences in the length of the feed mechanism -- but we're talking by a hair or two. But the gold part of the nib itself seems pretty much the same.

 

I bought it to replace the steel nib in my M200, and it was the only gold nib left. It arrived with some surface scratches and tines misaligned. Because it arrived somewhat thrashed, I thought for years that it was also dented. But on closer inspection with a loupe there's what appeared to be an oval stamp -- about a 1 mm wide in it's longest part. The stamp doesn't look like it was a clean one -- the oval isn't completely defined. I can't make out the letters, although there seems to be two identitions where letters would be. I've tried with high-powered jeweler's loupes. My local jeweler looked at it too, and he thinks it's a stamp rather than a dent. But if the locational is right, then I might now know what the deal is with this nib.

 

I tweaked the tines myself, and it's really a fantastic nib -- smoothest of my Pelikan nibs with a nice wet line. It's marked an F but it writes closer to an M/F compared to my M600, M800 Fine nibs. I always noticed is somewhat softer (or more flexible) than the M600 Fine. So I wonder if perhaps this 18K nib is one of these more flexible 18K M800 nibs you mentioned.

 

On a side note, that nib has been waiting for a worthy pen for years. I passed along the M200 with the original steel nib to someone else. Last week in my local stationary store, I found an NOS M400 tortoise (on my want list) at a scary inexpensive price. They're not a pen store, so the price was probably the list price from years ago. It had an 14K M, but I didn't care...my favorite Pelikan nib had found a home.

 

Thanks, Eric

Edited February 18, 2009 by eric47

[MarkTrain]

Hi Mark,

 

I stumbled on this thread, and I think you may have provided the answer to something that has nagged me for years. Where is exactly is the hallmark usually located? Looking from the back of the pen down the barrel, is it located on the right side of the nib, very close to collar? How big is it...roughly 1 mm at the widest part of the oval?

 

Here's the story. I have an 18K monotone nib (for which pen I don't remember) which I bought on closeout from Pelikan's ex-US distributor back in the 90s. Size-wise it's really close to an M400 (old style monotone) and M600 (two-tone) nibs I have. There may be some differences in the length of the feed mechanism -- but we're talking by a hair or two. But the gold part of the nib itself seems pretty much the same.

 

I bought it to replace the steel nib in my M200, and it was the only gold nib left. It arrived with some surface scratches and tines misaligned. Because it arrived somewhat thrashed, I thought for years that it was also dented. But on closer inspection with a loupe there's what appeared to be an oval stamp -- about a 1 mm wide in it's longest part. The stamp doesn't look like it was a clean one -- the oval isn't completely defined. I can't make out the letters, although there seems to be two identitions where letters would be. I've tried with high-powered jeweler's loupes. My local jeweler looked at it too, and he thinks it's a stamp rather than a dent. But if the locational is right, then I might now know what the deal is with this nib.

 

I tweaked the tines myself, and it's really a fantastic nib -- smoothest of my Pelikan nibs with a nice wet line. It's marked an F but it writes closer to an M/F compared to my M600, M800 Fine nibs. I always noticed is somewhat softer (or more flexible) than the M600 Fine. So I wonder if perhaps this 18K nib is one of these more flexible 18K M800 nibs you mentioned.

 

On a side note, that nib has been waiting for a worthy pen for years. I passed along the M200 with the original steel nib to someone else. Last week in my local stationary store, I found an NOS M400 tortoise (on my want list) at a scary inexpensive price. They're not a pen store, so the price was probably the list price from years ago. It had an 14K M, but I didn't care...my favorite Pelikan nib had found a home.

 

Thanks, Eric

 

Hi Eric,

 

The nib would have a E|N hallmark on the lower right as shown here. When Pelikan introduced the 600 and 700 models (Toledo and the 750 and 760 anniversary issues) in the late 80's they had three different nib designs; one was two toned and 14k, another was mono toned and 18k, and the third and final was two toned and 18k. I used to know which went with which year but have forgotten.

 

Mark

[eric47]

Hi Eric,

 

The nib would have a E|N hallmark on the lower right as shown here. When Pelikan introduced the 600 and 700 models (Toledo and the 750 and 760 anniversary issues) in the late 80's they had three different nib designs; one was two toned and 14k, another was mono toned and 18k, and the third and final was two toned and 18k. I used to know which went with which year but have forgotten.

Mark

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks! Sweet! That's exactly where it is on my nib. However, the stamp work is not so clearly defined on my montoned 18K. So even though I can't make out a clean E|N on it, at least I now know why this nib always seemed to be of a different breed. That finally puts to rest a decade-old mystery for me.

 

I think I paid around USD 30 at the time, that was probably a good deal, no?

 

Thanks again, Eric

[eric47]

Hi Eric,

 

The nib would have a E|N hallmark on the lower right as shown here. When Pelikan introduced the 600 and 700 models (Toledo and the 750 and 760 anniversary issues) in the late 80's they had three different nib designs; one was two toned and 14k, another was mono toned and 18k, and the third and final was two toned and 18k. I used to know which went with which year but have forgotten.

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

 

I posted some photos of my nib in the other thread that you linked. I figured it was better to keep shots of hallmarks together.

 

Thanks again, Eric