What is Ink made of?

[PTJeff]

Has anyone ever looked at what the fluid part of ink is? Does it have alcohol, water, what?

[vermiculus]

On the surface, this is a simple question.

 

However, I have a feeling that deeper down the answer might be more mystical and bewildering than many of us can cope with. We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.

 

Duly, I request that a moderator close this thread before it does any serious harm.

[Randorider]

If had been a fountain pen user back when I was a practicing chemist I would have analyzed inks and I would have an precise answer for all the ink components. But I think all fountain pen inks (except Parker 51 ink, which has its own unique problems) have as the solvent only water. First, you can usually wash out a fountain pen with only water, or maybe a little detergent or ammonia, both of which help water soluble components be more soluble. If you needed an organic solvent to wash out a pen that would be a different story. No manufacturer recommends using an organic solvent to wash its ink out of a pen, so that's good evidence that the ink never had an organic solvent in it.

 

Any liquid other than water would need to be miscible (that is, mutually soluble) with water otherwise you would see two liquid layers in the ink. Think oil and water. You don't see two layers so there is a short list of possible organic solvents would be short chain alcohols or ketones. That's methanol (can't think of a common use), ethanol (booze), isopropanol (rubbing alcohol), acetone (nail polish remover). I don't smell any of those in any inks I have, so I presume that the main liquid is water. I suppose that DMSO or DMF could be included in the list of possibles but they REALLY stink. There may be some other components, maybe the dye, maybe surfactants, that are liquids. I presume those are a small percentage of the formulation, and that's not what you are asking about. Old Skrip and Quink smell like a phenol, which is not a liquid at room temperature.

 

I once looked for ink patents and did not find any. Because the US Patent Office requires that patentees disclose the best mode of their inventions, the patentee is required to tell the patent office the formulation of the ink, if she wants to have a valid patent. This disclosure would be useful for competitors though when the patent term expires, so ink manufacturers apparently protect their formulations as trade secrets. Thus, so long as a manufacturer takes reasonable steps to keep the formulation secret the manufacturer is protected from someone stealing and marketing the formulation. Think Coke. So short of analyzing the ink you can't know exactly what is in it, but by knowing the physical and chemical properties of some of the components you can make a very reasonable conclusion as to what is not in the ink.

 

BTW, I think this is in the wrong forum. Shouldn't it be in Inky Thoughts?

Edited January 23, 2009 by Randorider

[gyasko]

You'd be able to tell if stuff like acetone were used, because it would turn your pens to goo.

[vermiculus]

you can make a very reasonable conclusion as to what is not in the ink.

I vote we explore the list of things which aren't in ink until someone like Phil from Diamine (member liverpool1) comes our way and gives us pointers.

 

I nominate grits, microelectronics and human hair.

 

[Randorider]

I don't understand this comment.

 

you can make a very reasonable conclusion as to what is not in the ink.

I vote we explore the list of things which aren't in ink until someone like Phil from Diamine (member liverpool1) comes our way and gives us pointers.

 

I nominate grits, microelectronics and human hair.

 

[vermiculus]

I don't understand this comment.

 

you can make a very reasonable conclusion as to what is not in the ink.

I vote we explore the list of things which aren't in ink until someone like Phil from Diamine (member liverpool1) comes our way and gives us pointers.

 

I nominate grits, microelectronics and human hair.

 

I'm just joking. The purpose was twofold - suggesting someone who knows all about this, and making a joke about all sorts of things which we can establish aren't in ink.

[Titivillus]

There are MSDS sheets for Sanford out on the web. It says that their ink contains:

 

Water, ethylene glycol, glycerine, dyes, buffer, surfactant, preservative.

 

They aren't going to tell you exactly which dyes or surfactants but in general that's what is in ink.

 

 

K

[ToasterPastry]

There are MSDS sheets for Sanford out on the web. It says that their ink contains:

 

Water, ethylene glycol, glycerine, dyes, buffer, surfactant, preservative.

 

They aren't going to tell you exactly which dyes or surfactants but in general that's what is in ink.

 

 

K

 

Glycerine replaced gum arabic (which is sticky to work with)

Perservative, think fungicide

Surfactant, think soap

Buffer, think a non-acidic material to neutralize the ink

[PTJeff]

Thank you all for contributing.

This is exactly what I wanted to do is figure out what is in ink by determining what in not in ink. I guess it's the western form of medicine I have been taught, deductive reasoning.

I have an alterior motive for this which i'll share at a later date.

In the meantime, continue to tell me there is not form of alcohol (or organic solvents) in fountain pen ink.

[MrZhuKeeper]

Do you think there are harmful vapors from ink?

 

I use a lot of Noodler's Ink everyday and I have been worrying about the vapors I have been breathing. I don't want to be breathing any carcinogenic stuff or things harmful to the CNS when I am writing 5-8 pages of stuff everyday.

 

Have you tried Noodler's black ink? The one that is supposed "bulletproof." If you have Noodler's ink, can you analyze it. I just want to know what's in the vapor. You could just do a gas chromatography on it or something. I would analyze it myself, but I do not have the access to the instruments.

 

 

[MrZhuKeeper]

deductive reasoning is using a general rule to conclude a specific incident.

Like "All men are mortal. Therefore, Robert will die."

Equations are deductive, because they generalize the behavior of two sets of numbers the input and output.

 

inductive reasoning is using specific incident(s) to arrive to a general rule.

Like "All living things I've seen died. Therefore all living things will die."

Science is inductive reasoning. They do experiments and try to find a general rule.

 

I don't know how excluding things can be consider deductive reasoning. I think it is some other type of reasoning you are doing. You sound more like you are eliminating the least possibles to find the most possibles. Unless there is a different definition for deductive reasoning in medicine.

Edited January 23, 2009 by MrZhuKeeper

[ToasterPastry]

I think it is fair to state that there are probably not solvents in the ink--or rather I highly doubt it. If I recall (I don't remember where I read that), Parker (or someone from that time frame) had been working on use of alcohol in order to achieve a more fast drying ink. I believe that they did not succeed because of the solvents dissolved some of the materials in the pen. Superchrome ink was a fast drying ink for use with the Parker 51, but this formulation was known to corrode. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[vermiculus]

Ah, but you can use deductive reasoning to follow a chain of logic and arrive at specifics, viz:

 

Ink exhibits certain characteristics; certain substances achieve these; some of these are harmful to certain pens; therefore, we use these others to achieve the same effects.

 

 

[Eleventeen]

Surfactant, think soap

 

Just picking a nit here, but while soap contains surfactants, surfactants themselves aren't soapy (well, most of them at least).

 

I remember using a couple of 'wetting' agents when working on cars, certain race coolants contain surfactants to help heat transfer from the coolant to the radiator core itself.

[mikey]

Well, water IS a solvent.

 

That being said, I recall reading somewhere that Noodler's inks are 97% water. Wether or not the other 3% is harmful remains to be seen. I believe that Mr. Tardif (sp) once drank an entire bottle of his ink (with no ill effect) to prove that it was safe.

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

I think it is fair to state that there are probably not solvents in the ink...

 

[MrZhuKeeper]

Well, water IS a solvent.

 

That being said, I recall reading somewhere that Noodler's inks are 97% water.

Mike

 

 

I think it is fair to state that there are probably not solvents in the ink...

 

 

What do they mean by 97% water? Is it 97% water in weight, mass, or volume? If the ink is 97% by weight, then you could have a large amount of very light-weight volatile organic compounds.

[dcwaites]

Well, water IS a solvent.

 

That being said, I recall reading somewhere that Noodler's inks are 97% water. Wether or not the other 3% is harmful remains to be seen. I believe that Mr. Tardif (sp) once drank an entire bottle of his ink (with no ill effect) to prove that it was safe.

 

Thanks,

Mike

I think it is fair to state that there are probably not solvents in the ink...

You beat me to it about water being a solvent. What people don't realise is that it is the most powerful known solvent if you think of all the things that it dissolves. Hot water will even dissolve aluminium, albeit slowly.

 

As for the toxicity of ink, there has been discussion on this board about the relative toxicities of Parker Quink Black vs Vegemite. Some would hold that PQ Black is less toxic than the spread.

 

But perhaps you have just stumbled on the reason we haven't seen Nathan around recently??

 

 

[ToasterPastry]

Well, water IS a solvent.

 

That being said, I recall reading somewhere that Noodler's inks are 97% water. Wether or not the other 3% is harmful remains to be seen. I believe that Mr. Tardif (sp) once drank an entire bottle of his ink (with no ill effect) to prove that it was safe.

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

I think it is fair to state that there are probably not solvents in the ink...

 

Of course. Of course. I will attempt to use this solvent called water to dissolve the ink that just dripped onto my clothing. I was, of course, making reference to the question about whether there are "other" carbon-based polar and non-polar solvents--i.e. toluene, acetone, MEK, THF, DMSO, dioxane, alcohols, and ethers---which I do not believe there are any. To prove my point, I will now drink this bottle of Noodler's Zhivago...

 

 

Ackk-k-k-k

 

 

[13R14N]

... about water being a solvent. What people don't realise is that it is the most powerful known solvent ...

And with this comment, now is a good time to provide this link to a web page dedicated to this "most powerful known solvent" :blink:

 

--Brian