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Pilot Capless Trapdoor Mechanisms

milo

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milo Mint

milo

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Posted

Hi folks,

 

so I recently received a Blue Kasuri/Carbonesque which I purchased from a UK supplier. I was comparing the trapdoor mechanism with that of the Deep Yellow purchased from Japan. I swear they look different!

The yellow seems to have a vertical oriented spring that is compressed when the nib pushes through.

The blue seems to have a horizontal oriented spring attached to the underside of the hole, with a little rod that attaches to the trapdoor (the spring is similar to other spring based lever systems like clothes pegs or mouse traps).

 

Has anyone else noticed differences in mechanisms? Can anyone offer an explanation?

 

cheers,

Milo

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Moose Mint

Moose

Posted
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  milo said:
Hi folks,

 

so I recently received a Blue Kasuri/Carbonesque which I purchased from a UK supplier. I was comparing the trapdoor mechanism with that of the Deep Yellow purchased from Japan. I swear they look different!

The yellow seems to have a vertical oriented spring that is compressed when the nib pushes through.

The blue seems to have a horizontal oriented spring attached to the underside of the hole, with a little rod that attaches to the trapdoor (the spring is similar to other spring based lever systems like clothes pegs or mouse traps).

 

Has anyone else noticed differences in mechanisms? Can anyone offer an explanation?

 

cheers,

Milo

 

No explanation here, but I just checked all six of my Vanishing Points and the Yellow and the Raden have the spring that looks like a 'W' with the middle flattened and coiled. The others (Black, Blue Kasuri, LE Orange, and Chrome) all have a spring which has the 'O' part touching the trap door ('O' as if you are looking "through" the spring. So I think mine are actually backwards from yours.

 

Okay, I did a horrible job explaining that. Suffice it to say: Yes, I have noticed a difference in the mechanisms. It may be due to a change in production as the Yellow and Raden are my two most recent purchases and it sounds like your Kasuri is your most recent. Maybe Pilot/Namiki changed the production on them!

Well for you, if you wrestle on, for in persistency lies victory, and with the morning may come the wished-for blessing. But not always; there is a struggle with defeat which some of you will have to bear, and it will be well for you if you have cultivated a cheerful equanimity. Remember, too, that sometimes 'from our desolation only does the better life begin.' Even with disaster ahead, it is better to face them with a smile, and with the head erect, than to crouch at their approach. And, if the fight is for principle and justice, even when failure seems certain, where many have failed before, cling to your ideal, and, like Childe Roland before the dark tower, set the slug-horn to your lips, blow the challenge, and calmly await the conflict.

 

 

--"Aequanimitas" William Osler

Valedictory Address, University of Pennsylvania, May 1, 1889

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haywoody Extremely Rare

haywoody

Posted
Posted (edited)

The technical terms for the springs are "coil spring" or "compression spring" for the cylindrical ones and "torsion spring" for the W shaped one. I don't have an explanation for why they would be different but either type seems to be right for the application. Maybe Pilot swaps them in and out of the assembly line at will or maybe they changed from one type to the other at some point in time.

 

All my VPs, ranging from 2006 back to 1973 have the coil spring (including a Raden). The CL-200s and CL-300s from the 1960's have a leaf spring (a flat bar which provides the spring force). The "aluminum pipe" models from the 1960's use flat wire "leaf spring". The Sliding Clip model from 1968 has a "tension spring." All the VP designs seem to have some type of trap door but the spring has evolved...

 

By the way, Antoniosz once posted a cool x-ray shot of the trapdoor mechanism. I can't seem to find it but maybe somebody with better searching skills can.

 

/Woody

Edited by haywoody
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milo Mint

milo

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If I look head on inside the mouth of the pens, this is pretty much what I see. On the left is the mechanism I have in the capless blue carbonesque which I received just over a week a go. The one on the right is the deep yellow from Japan which I received around June earlier this year.

 

post-11032-1230723618_thumb.jpg

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Moose Mint

Moose

Posted
Posted
  haywoody said:
The technical terms for the springs are "coil spring" or "compression spring" for the cylindrical ones and "torsion spring" for the W shaped one. I don't have an explanation for why they would be different but either type seems to be right for the application. Maybe Pilot swaps them in and out of the assembly line at will or maybe they changed from one type to the other at some point in time.

/Woody

 

Thanks for the info, Haywoody! When I think about it, you perfectly described what I was trying to say.

 

As for the picture in your post, Milo, I have the exact opposite (your earlier yellow matches my earlier kasuri, your later kasuri matches my later yellow), so I am guessing Pilot switched their manufacturing at some point this year.

Well for you, if you wrestle on, for in persistency lies victory, and with the morning may come the wished-for blessing. But not always; there is a struggle with defeat which some of you will have to bear, and it will be well for you if you have cultivated a cheerful equanimity. Remember, too, that sometimes 'from our desolation only does the better life begin.' Even with disaster ahead, it is better to face them with a smile, and with the head erect, than to crouch at their approach. And, if the fight is for principle and justice, even when failure seems certain, where many have failed before, cling to your ideal, and, like Childe Roland before the dark tower, set the slug-horn to your lips, blow the challenge, and calmly await the conflict.

 

 

--"Aequanimitas" William Osler

Valedictory Address, University of Pennsylvania, May 1, 1889

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milo Mint

milo

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Haywoody's explanations are very useful...thank you Haywoody!

 

Looking at the two mechanisms, the more recent one seems to me to be more sturdy...hence at least in my opinion, an improvement in the already awesome design!

:thumbup:

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Siv Collectors Item

Siv

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cools pics - I assume the top is a standard X-Ray. Is the second CT or MRI?

 

You're giving away your profession ;) My Dad is a radiologist.

 

PS, I'd love to see the whole pen like that!

Edited by Siv

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4371168844_35ba5fb338.jpg

Danitrio Fellow, Nakaya Nutter, Sailor Sailor (ret), Visconti Venerator, Montegrappa Molester (in training), ConwayStewart Champion & Diplomat #77

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milo Mint

milo

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Asolutely amazing!!!

Thank you so much for those images antoniosz. These demonstrate the mechanism in the older of the two pens I mentioned above.

 

cheers,

Milo

 

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antoniosz Antique

antoniosz

Posted
Posted
  Siv said:
You're giving away your profession ;) My Dad is a radiologist.

PS, I'd love to see the whole pen like that!

It is a microCT that can reach a pixel size of about 1 micron.

Because of the resolution the specimen size has to be small and fit within a cylinder of 6cm dia and 6cm height, so I can not fit the whole pen :(

I am not a doctor or a radiologist :) :)

1. A short guide to flex (comments welcome)

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milo Mint

milo

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So, a week a go I bought another Capless Kasuri, this time in black, to give to my PhD professor. This one had the spring as per antoniosz's photos (compression spring). My Blue one has the other type of spring. I would definitely be interested in learning more. Do you think Pilot UK might help me out?

 

cheers,

Milo

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antoniosz Antique

antoniosz

Posted
Posted

Wile E Coyote and I had fun this morning. He supplied the VPs and I supplied the x-rays.

 

2008LE

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/2008LE.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/2008LE_0124.jpg

 

 

Fermo

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Fermo.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Fermo_0117.jpg

 

Raden

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Raden.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Raden_0078.jpg

1. A short guide to flex (comments welcome)

2. Some reference postings on FPs.

3. Some pen videos

4. The perfect fountain pen

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milo Mint

milo

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:notworthy1: Antoniosz...that is absolutely amazing. Your images show exactly what I was trying to explain before. Thank you so much for these. :thumbup:

cheers

Milo

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hari317 Museum Piece

hari317

Posted
Posted

Amazing radiographs Antonios! Which spring design seems to be more reliable? I think the torsion design will be more resistant to the spring getting dislodged. What do the experts think?

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

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MYU Donor Pen

MYU

Posted
Posted (edited)

Antonios, THANK YOU for these! Wow, what great detail--this is even better than the cut-away shots we got from Pilot Pen Station. How did you do this? Did you have to remove the nose-cone section of the VP, or were you able to do it fully assembled?

Edited by MYU

[MYU's Pen Review Corner] | "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small

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MYU Donor Pen

MYU

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Posted (edited)

I definitely appreciate not having to fully disassemble the pen. I thought that a partial tear down might be necessary for use with the equipment. But I'm glad that it was possible with the pen as-is.

 

As for design, I think the older coil spring design you see on the Raden is probably more reliable. You have a more even distribution of stress across the spring. But it means more metal. The newer design has a spring-lever type design. I could see over time a weakening taking place, as there is a lot of stress applied in one specific section of the spring. However, it is a cleaner design... I suspect the older design has a greater probability for attracting rust, as moisture gets trapped between the coils. Special forged stainless steel of sufficient thickness will simply not rust (as used on high quality knives), but for bendable metal I suspect that these springs are not completely impervious to rust.

Edited by MYU

[MYU's Pen Review Corner] | "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small

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Dillo Donor Pen

Dillo

Posted
Posted

Hi,

 

The new design is harder to dislodge from the pen than the older type. I remember several people with the old type complaining that the spring popped out of their pen.

 

Dillon

Stolen: Aurora Optima Demonstrator Red ends Medium nib. Serial number 1216 and Aurora 98 Cartridge/Converter Black bark finish (Archivi Storici) with gold cap. Reward if found. Please contact me if you have seen these pens.

Please send vial orders and other messages to fpninkvials funny-round-mark-thing gmail strange-mark-thing com. My shop is open once again if you need help with your pen.

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