Lawsuit filed by Montblanc

[Deirdre]

It is really not so simple, Roger, and I am certainly not compromising my moral/ethical principles: I think the matter is not quite in that territory for me. I am frustrated by and resentful of the company, yet I like their products.

 

The question is, who will I be hurting more by getting rid of pens I like -- Montblanc or myself? And I think the answer is myself, because Montblanc would not feel the loss at all, whereas I would feel it quite a bit.

I agree that it's not quite in that territory.

 

In my own case, I am looking for ways to put boundaries on my pen collection, which seems to want to bound out of control. I know that if I got started down the road of Montblanc LEs (their regular series I find largely meh), it's the edge of an abyss.

 

I was this --> <-- to getting a Shaw. I had a timetable for it. Now? Not even on the radar.

[cafzal]

My two cents: I am not a lawyer and I don't pretend to understand the law. As I contemplate what MB is doing this thought occurred to me. I was in a boutique the other day picking up some White Forest ink, and it hit me again. MB is trying to be a high end jewelry store. Perhaps this suit is not really about counterfeit pens per se, but the fact that it involves an artist's overlay on an MB pen. It seems to me that the Meisterstuch line is the last of the writers pens that they want to sell. The focus is now on fancy gussied up 146s and 149s, to the tune at the high end the very expensive patron of the arts series. Chinese knock offs may not be what they are worried about, but really they don't want non-licensed artists doing what they really want to do which is turn 146s and 149s into jewelry.

[OldGriz]

I just had to stop in here and tell you all that I have the utmost respect and admiration for everyone I have seen post so far. No one flying off the handle, no one jumping to conclusions, no one bashing either MB or RC aimlessly. I just came from the discussion on another message board where it seems that jumping to conclusions and bashing is the treat of the day. It sure is nice to see some intelligent, thoughtful, and respectful conversation and discussion.

 

I tip my hat to all of you.

 

Allan

 

Yes, I too am quite proud of the FPN community.

 

Most of then, at least.... some I still wonder about :ltcapd:

 

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

Edited December 6, 2008 by OldGriz

[chibimie]

http://www.stylophilesonline.com/09-05/09bees.htm

How does this pen fit into the whole thing?

 

It was most likely produce with the permission of Mont Blanc... so basically it is licensed by Mont Blanc

Classic Pens who are well known for their extremely artistic work done on pens from major companies would not take the chance of being sued...

This is where, IMO, the whole nut of the lawsuit lies.... the pen in question was not licensed by Mont Blanc... in other words they did not give permission to modify the pen...

 

But if we stick to the 'standard' you applied to the defendant, we would have to say that we do not KNOW that permission was sought and granted by Montblanc in advance.

 

Lucky for me, I've had plenty of inconvertible information about Montblanc's recent policies that make me comfortable with my decision to never buy another of their products--including the Montegrappa pen I was lusting after.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2008 by chibimie

[twdpens]

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

 

I know I'm probably going to get flamed by this statement, but I can't imagine another company being so heavy-handed as to adopt the approach that Montblanc has. I'm not suggesting that no wrong has been done, but since we don't know the full details we can't comment objectively. However, to dive straight in with a lawsuit is just bully-boy tactics, in my opinion. I know businesses have to protect their brand, reputation, intellectual property etc and being in business myself I know these things all to well. However, I also believe that there are "right" and "wrong" ways of conducting business and, unfortunately, in this case I don't see much "right" in the approach of Montblanc or its American Lawyers.

 

Martin

[OldGriz]

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

 

I know I'm probably going to get flamed by this statement, but I can't imagine another company being so heavy-handed as to adopt the approach that Montblanc has. I'm not suggesting that no wrong has been done, but since we don't know the full details we can't comment objectively. However, to dive straight in with a lawsuit is just bully-boy tactics, in my opinion. I know businesses have to protect their brand, reputation, intellectual property etc and being in business myself I know these things all to well. However, I also believe that there are "right" and "wrong" ways of conducting business and, unfortunately, in this case I don't see much "right" in the approach of Montblanc or its American Lawyers.

 

Martin

 

Martin,

I have no dog in this race... in fact I do not own, do not intend to own and really don't care for them

I have been playing devil's advocate in this thread

 

[Titivillus]

Most of then, at least.... some I still wonder about :ltcapd:

 

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

 

Isn't that the truth! I am suprised at some rancor that I have felt going on.

 

[twdpens]

Martin,

I have no dog in this race... in fact I do not own, do not intend to own and really don't care for them

I have been playing devil's advocate in this thread

 

And neither do I, Tom. It's just that I like to view people in a good light and, although I do not know the defendant, as a reputable business owner I find it hard to believe he would deliberately act to harm a manufacturer's reputation or sales. In many ways it's rather unfortunate that Montblanc is the apparently injured party, as the company and its brand does tend to polarise opinion somewhat, perhaps limiting rational thought and comment .

 

Anyway, let us all hope that the matter is resolved quickly and, above all, reasonably.

 

Martin

[Allan]

I know I'm probably going to get flamed by this statement, but I can't imagine another company being so heavy-handed as to adopt the approach that Montblanc has. I'm not suggesting that no wrong has been done, but since we don't know the full details we can't comment objectively. However, to dive straight in with a lawsuit is just bully-boy tactics, in my opinion. I know businesses have to protect their brand, reputation, intellectual property etc and being in business myself I know these things all to well. However, I also believe that there are "right" and "wrong" ways of conducting business and, unfortunately, in this case I don't see much "right" in the approach of Montblanc or its American Lawyers.

 

Martin

 

What we also do not know is what happened before the lawsuit. Some would say that the defendant had no prior contact with MB about this and that the lawsuit just popped up out of nowhere. While that may or may not be true, the defendant has had many problems with his customers not being able to contact him which leads me to wonder if maybe MB had the same problem.

 

MB is a huge company, there are some smart people there. I highly doubt they spent thousands of dollars and just filed a suit against someone they knew they could not collect any money from just for kicks. There has to be more to it than that. Not to say we would like it if we knew it, but there has to be something else we are missing.

 

Allan

[kazoolaw]

Fred,

>The Complaint again asserts that three capbands can only be used by MB: pish-posh.

gary

 

ps Thanks Deirde for linking to the Complaint.

 

 

Careful fella, that's some mighty strong language.

 

 

C'mon JD, quit poking at us ... surely you have something more productive to do...

 

Productive? What is this "productive"?

Enjoyed the wry humor from you both.

gary

[kazoolaw]

What we also do not know is what happened before the lawsuit. Some would say that the defendant had no prior contact with MB about this and that the lawsuit just popped up out of nowhere. While that may or may not be true, the defendant has had many problems with his customers not being able to contact him which leads me to wonder if maybe MB had the same problem.

 

MB is a huge company, there are some smart people there. I highly doubt they spent thousands of dollars and just filed a suit against someone they knew they could not collect any money from just for kicks. There has to be more to it than that. Not to say we would like it if we knew it, but there has to be something else we are missing.

 

Allan

 

If by "know" you mean we weren't eyewitnesses, I agree.

 

We do know that RC has sworn under oath that he received no notice the he "distributed or sold any item which was unauthorized, counterfeit or infringing of a design patent, copyright, trademark, trademarks or tradedress." Is there evidence he is incorrect? Or lying?

 

One may "wonder" if MB had a problem getting in touch with RC, but certified mail is certainly within the grasp of MB. So is a process server to serve a cease-and-desist letter. After all, we do can agree that RC got the Complaint in the federal lawsuit.

 

With regard to "kicks", I have personally been involved in suits motivated by exactly that. And greed, revenge, mentally unstable behavior, delusions, pride and ego. The belief that "there has to be something else" is admirable, but not based upon any evidence in this case either. Large corporations are entirely capable of being bullies, just like the big kid on the playground.

 

gary

 

 

[kazoolaw]

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

 

Tom,

You made me smile: MB got it's reputation for being a 900 pound gorilla by throwing its weight around. As far as other pen companies, I'd say the same thing. In fact, I'll go on record that L E Waterman' suit against A A Waterman was every bit as brutal!

gary

 

PS you look good in the red cap

 

[framebaer]

Overheard in the MB Boardroom?

 

Vell, Wir haben certain gross trouble mit diese Feder nuts stirren up gehabt!

 

Zeit zu feder tropfen und concentraten auf lederwaren und Armbanduhr?? :roflmho: :roflmho:

 

 

(Apologies to all my Deutschland buddies for the tortured Pig-German!)

 

For you non -german speaking folks, a translation:

feder=pen

zeit=time

trophen=drop

lederwaren=leather Goods

Armbanduhr= wristwatch

 

 

[Allan]

If by "know" you mean we weren't eyewitnesses, I agree.

 

We do know that RC has sworn under oath that he received no notice the he "distributed or sold any item which was unauthorized, counterfeit or infringing of a design patent, copyright, trademark, trademarks or tradedress." Is there evidence he is incorrect? Or lying?

 

One may "wonder" if MB had a problem getting in touch with RC, but certified mail is certainly within the grasp of MB. So is a process server to serve a cease-and-desist letter. After all, we do can agree that RC got the Complaint in the federal lawsuit.

 

With regard to "kicks", I have personally been involved in suits motivated by exactly that. And greed, revenge, mentally unstable behavior, delusions, pride and ego. The belief that "there has to be something else" is admirable, but not based upon any evidence in this case either. Large corporations are entirely capable of being bullies, just like the big kid on the playground.

 

gary

 

I would agree that he swore that under oath. There are two points there: First, how many murderers have you heard tell the truth when first asked under oath if they committed the crime? Taking an oath does not automatically mean you tell the truth. Second, even if you assume he told the truth, that just means they never got in contact with him. That is no surprise since he is known to be hard to contact. They may have tried to call him, mail him, and even certified mail him, all of which he dodged. This is my point, we don't know so we should not assume that they did not attempt to contact him any more than we should assume they did.

 

I would like to know the size of the corporations that were in the suits in which you were involved in. We they comparable in size to MB? Or are we taking about something much smaller? And I agree that they could have been motivated by any of those factors, I am just not willing to assume the negative reasons any faster than I will assume the positive ones.

 

Allan

 

 

 

[thibaulthalpern]

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

 

Is that how some see it? Montblanc bashing? I'm not loyal to any pen company. Why should anyone be? To me, it's the pen, not the company. I remember responding to this earlier when QM2 (userID??) was asking about brand loyalty and philosophy to which I replied I had none since it wasn't clear what the "philosophies" are and they change. For me, it's better to focus on a pen by pen basis. For instance, I've had good experiences with Pilot, but also bad experiences with them. It's a pen by pen scenario for me. No loyalty.

[Deirdre]

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

Okay, I'll admit it -- I'm an underdog person.

 

I've never owned a Windows machine.

I don't drink Coca Cola as my cola of choice.

I drive a Chrysler.

My favorite pen company is Stipula.

My favorite books are science fiction, and my two favorite authors are Tim Powers and Lois McMaster Bujold.

 

Culturally, for me, I tend to like things that are just off the beaten track, and it's endemic to my personality. For me, it's not because they're MB.

 

For me, it's because, given the premise that this was a genuine MB underneath the engraving, that's not how I want to be treated as a customer. I can put up with shoddy customer service, but being sued is way over-the-top bad service. For me, it redefines the lows of bad service.

[LBpens]

MB said, under oath in the response to interrogatories, that no-one made any contact with Roger prior to the suit being filed. MB simply did a very poor job of picking the right defendant to make an example of. Now they have painted themselves into a corner and will look for an opportunity to back out without losing too much face.

[jd50ae]

As for all the Mont Blanc bashing that is going on... I wonder how quick people would be to bash if it were another major pen company that did not have MBs reputation...

 

I know I'm probably going to get flamed by this statement, but I can't imagine another company being so heavy-handed as to adopt the approach that Montblanc has. I'm not suggesting that no wrong has been done, but since we don't know the full details we can't comment objectively. However, to dive straight in with a lawsuit is just bully-boy tactics, in my opinion. I know businesses have to protect their brand, reputation, intellectual property etc and being in business myself I know these things all to well. However, I also believe that there are "right" and "wrong" ways of conducting business and, unfortunately, in this case I don't see much "right" in the approach of Montblanc or its American Lawyers.

 

Martin

 

Ahem,

I do not own a MB and I have never been keen on obtaining one, for a number of reasons.

 

I am not a lawyer, but I have spent a lot if time in court doing battle with them.

And this lawsuit, if it is as stated, is just another reason not to own a MB.

 

Now that I have gone as far as I dare.

Twdpens, I am in total agreement with you.

 

 

[Admin]

Just a note: The other thread that was closed for discussion was opened, then merged with this one so all the posts are integrated into this thread.

 

It was thought better to have all the information available in one place

 

Regards,

 

The FPN Admin Team....

Edited December 6, 2008 by Gerry

[QM2]

Overheard in the MB Boardroom?

 

Vell, Wir haben certain gross trouble mit diese Feder nuts stirren up gehabt!

 

Zeit zu feder tropfen und concentraten auf lederwaren und Armbanduhr?? :roflmho: :roflmho:

 

Haaaah hah hah

 

This made my evening!

sehr witzig : )