Urushi lacquer

November 25, 2008

Has anyone worked with Urushi lacquer when finishing their pen?

where can you get it?

what is the process of application?

I absolutly love the Danitrio Tame-nuri Urushi line, and was wondering if any makers have tried this complicated process.

November 25, 2008

The man with the answers is SJM1123. See this reply to a similar question I made.

November 25, 2008

Hi Jeffrey,

By the way, the pen in your photo is a Nakaya tamenuri, not Danitrio.

You can see some pictures of mine here, in red-black and green-brown

As you will discover by following the link provided by Siv, the urushi lacquering technique is not only difficult, but hazardous!

But it would be interesting to see acrylic and oil-based lacquering substitutes by western pen makers. For a while now, I have been toying with the idea of making a Shaker folk art sort of series: painted on a wooden barrel using traditional folk colours and then covered with a durable lacquer.

Edited November 25, 2008 by QM2

November 25, 2008

Hi Jeffrey,

By the way, the pen in your photo is a Nakaya tamenuri, not Danitrio.
You can see some pictures of mine here, in red-black and green-brown

As you will discover by following the link provided by Siv, the urushi lacquering technique is not only difficult, but hazardous!

But it would be interesting to see acrylic and oil-based lacquering substitutes by western pen makers. For a while now, I have been toying with the idea of making a Shaker folk art sort of series: painted on a wooden barrel using traditional folk colours and then covered with a durable lacquer.

Lou Metcalf of Heritage Pens has quite a bit of experience with the urushi lacquer techniques. He had a contact at one time that could get him the authentic lacquer from Japan and he did several pens with that material. You might contact him at heritagepens.com.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Dan Symonds

November 25, 2008

QM2,

There are several of the custom pen makers out there that do some excellent modern lacquer finishing. Additionally there are several that do the hand painted pens with some very good technique.

I'm sure you know that the really deep lacquer finishes are applied many layers with polishing and buffing between each layer. The curing time makes this process less than desireable for someone wanting to produce in quantity so it's not used much. If you PM me I can possibly give you some recomendations for a source.

Cheers

Dan

November 25, 2008

I think that one of the keys to the tamenuri finish is that the urushi used for the top coatings is not totally transparent but the transparency increases with age (and I guess exposure to sunlight). Are there any modern finishes that behave in the same way?

November 25, 2008

QM2, I stand corrected, (Nakaya tamenuri, not Danitrio) my bad and thank you.

still a beautiful pen, I love the finish and the balance.

Siv, that lead has given me more info than alot of hours searching the W3 today. Thanks so much for the info.

Dan, thanks for letting me know about Lou's experience. I have learned alot from his presentations "behind the nib", now I hope to learn more. I will PM you for the source. I love your work and have always been interested in how you do it. Hope to learn from you as well. I went to grad school in Houston and grew up in El Paso. Hook'em Horns!

November 26, 2008

As you can see from the other thread, urushi is hazardous to work with. One of my students in Japan, a doctor, started making lacquered objects as a hobby, and he wrote an essay about his initial experiences including his research into the allergic reaction he got from working with it.

The allergic reaction from urushi is difficult to avoid since it can be triggered by fumes, which penetrate all types of clothing. I imagine you could wear one of those biohazard suits to escape it, but then you probably would lose the dexterity required to actually apply the lacquer.

Anyway, his most interesting/painful discovery is that the reaction is typically strongest around the testicles, where the combination of sweat and tight-fitting clothing traps the allergen against the skin. He said he found some papers stating that urushi was traditionally done by men wearing next to nothing, usually a loose loin cloth, which exposed the entire body but did not concentrate the reaction on certain tender parts. He wasn't sure if that was true, however.

Have fun!!

Neill

December 4, 2008

HELLO!!!

:-D

From my research, the tamenuri process is produced by layering lacquer over a surface in much the same process as basic lacquering in black and red, but it uses a different formulation of urushi.

The initial layers are lacquered using the same process as any colored urushi process, starting with base coats and then layering the colored urushi (usually red, which comes from a mixture of urushi and cinnabar/vermillion) After this is finished, the surface would be the same as any solid colored lacquerware.

However, this is where the tamenuri process starts. Over the colored layer, layers of a semi-transparent lacquer is used and layered in more or less the same way as the opaque layers, but taking even more care during the smoothing and burnishing phases to maintain the correct thickness of lacquer at any given part of the pen.

Tamenuri is frequently finished at the end in one of two ways. The first way, which I assume is done by the nakaya lacquer artists is the polished method where the last layer of urushi is then polished smooth using progressively softer abrasives and polishes to create the very shiny surface. The other method which is supposedly popular in japan for lacquerware is the natural finish where natural gloss of the urushi is left on the surface and not polished to an even shinier surface.

The type of urushi used for the tamenuri process appears to be what is called Shuai Urushi (朱合漆) or otherwise Kijiro Urushi (木地呂漆). Kijiro urushi is apparently produced by heating raw, filtered urushi sap while constantly stirring to remove the moisture from the raw urushi. (indeed must be a very noxious process) Once the moisture content is low enough, the lacquer will cure to a transparent/semitransparent finish, but matte-ish texture. To make the urushi dry naturally to a gloss finish, some sort of vegetable drying oil is apparently mixed in the kijiro urushi to produce shuai urushi. Shuai must be used to achieve the "natural gloss" finish that i mentioned earlier. If using kijiro, the polishing process must be used to get the surface glossy.

The beautiful transparency that is the trademark of the tamenuri technique comes from the semi-transparency of the kijiro/shuai urushi. In its uncured state, it is a transparent golden or reddish brown. The reason tamenuri is most frequently used with a red undercoat is because other colors tend to get muddied by the color of the urushi. This has been used to good effect in nakaya's olive green tamenuri pens, but it seems like it could be a hit or miss in terms of color.

Shuai, from my experience as it cures also darkens in color. It goes from the transparent golden brown when wet to, from my experience, anything from only slightly darker than the original color to almost near black depending on the specifics of the curing atmosphere. From my basic experiments, I've found that the generalization is that the higher the humidity while curing the darker the shuai urushi cures.

The cured lacquer also does change in color over time if exposed to light. Because kijiro/shuai urushi is transparent, the effects of light are much more profound than on opaque lacquer. This is because light cannot penetrate very deep into the surface of an opaque lacquer, but transparent lacquers permit light to penetrate down through the layers and thus a much thicker portion of the lacquer is affected by the light. As recommended by Nakaya, if you dont want your tamenuri pens to change in color, they are best kept boxed away when not in use in a dark place, only exposing it for use. This change in color, because of its relationship to light, i believe might be just a simple fading reaction that inevitably happens to almost all plant based pigments, dyes and colors.

Now, my previous caveats from my other posts of using urushi goes here too. However, I have noticed that transparent Cashew lacquer is also a similar color to shuai/kijiro urushi, so i would imagine, a similarly looking result could probably be done with cashew without the risks of urushiol reactions.

As for finding Shuai or Kijiro lacquer, i've found one source in Japan who is willing to ship to the united states called Namikawa Heibei (the link at bottom) Transparent cashew urushi can be found from shadow of leaves (link below)

Namikawa Heibei

Shadow Of Leaves

Have Fun!

Ern.

Edited December 4, 2008 by SJM1123

December 4, 2008

Well, would you look at that... it's *my* photo of *my* pen.

December 4, 2008

Well, would you look at that... it's *my* photo of *my* pen.

You are one lucky person. Does the finish feel as good as it looks? I am on an quest with this finish.

December 4, 2008

Yes, the finish is flawless. Super glossy, hard and smooooooooth.

December 4, 2008

I love this post at the top of the Cashew lacquer page:

Since Urushi lacquer has been banned for import to the states, due to it's highly toxic qualities

December 4, 2008

Another hazard of urushi which I forgot to mention. Urushi dosent particularly have strong smelling fumes, but you do still have to be careful. It can:

Cause allergic rhinitis, depending on your sensitivity and how much and how frequently it is inhaled.

Incite an asthmatic reaction in those that are prone to allergic asthma attacks

Apparently in very rare instances, if you are particularly sensitive, a rash can form in your respiratory linings and cause a very serious problem.

Kinda odd isn't it that such a toxic substance cures to such an inert and food-safe surface.

Edited December 4, 2008 by SJM1123

December 5, 2008

I've found specific websites that describe the processes, some in english, some in "engrish" and some in Japanese. I'll list them at the bottom....and i guess i should post this into the forum as well so others can benefit from the information.

Also if you search on Google Scholar, youll find some information in journals and databases.

Chinkin with process videos English

Various techniques including Raden, Rankaku, Kinpaku, tsugaru..... Japanese

Tsugaru-nuri Japanese

Chinkin with process photos

Tsugaru-Nuri process description English and Japanese

Undercoat Processes

I'll post more if i can think of more.

Edited December 5, 2008 by SJM1123

July 25, 2009

I know it's been a while since this thread was active, but I was curious. I find the Nakaya Urushi pens tremendously beautiful. But I definitely suffer from allergies and respiratory problems, and this has been even more aggravating as I have also been diagnosed with asthma.

Am I setting myself up for disappointment to aspire to own one of these pens? Thank you!

July 25, 2009

I know it's been a while since this thread was active, but I was curious. I find the Nakaya Urushi pens tremendously beautiful. But I definitely suffer from allergies and respiratory problems, and this has been even more aggravating as I have also been diagnosed with asthma.

Am I setting myself up for disappointment to aspire to own one of these pens? Thank you!

Respiratory allergies? Asthma? You will most DEFINITELY have ABSOLUTELY NO problem.

That is, with your respiratory system and allergies.

The only problem people have the potential to get with handling fully cured urushi is the rare chance that one is so hypersensitive to urushi that even cured urushi will cause contact dermatitis. This exceedingly rare for anything that is only held in the hands, since the skin on your palms and fingers are much less likely to get the dermatitis in the first place. It is much more common with Japanese flutes, in which newly lacquered flutes come in contact with the sensitive lips, and even then its only minor itching. Over time, the potential to cause this rare reaction diminishes, until it is virtually impossible to get any reaction from the surface. There has been no known case of respiratory problems caused by fully cured urushi (except possibly the dust created by sanding it down, but I really dont think you'd want to sand down a nakaya...I hope....). Urushi only has fumes BEFORE it is cured, while still in its liquid form. And even for those who are extra sensitive to urushiol induced contact dermatitis, I'm sure that Nakaya takes precautions to prevent most if not all cases of hypersensitive reactions to their pens.

Feel free to puchase a Nakaya pen. You'll enjoy it immensely. For you though, I simply ask that you refrain from doing your own lacquerwork.

If in the RARE case that one does have a lacquered pen, be it a Danitrio, Nakaya, Pilot or whatever brand, and it causes a rash on your skin, the first suggestion is to gently but thoroughly clean the surface with a cotton swab impregnated with detergent and water and wipe away the detergent with a soft, clean, damp cloth. This should be repeated several times. This should get rid of any problematic molecules. This is not a recommended solution for highly detailed lacquer work such as maki-e, and in the case that a maki-e pen causes a reaction, the manufacturer should be contacted for possible solutions. One solution that may work is to place the pen along with (not in) a bowl of water in a wooden or acid free cardboard box and let it sit for a few months to a year, replacing the water when it has evaporated. Following with a very gentle wipe down with detergent and water should help finish curing or remove any remaining problematic molecules.

Edited July 25, 2009 by SJM1123

July 25, 2009

I know it's been a while since this thread was active, but I was curious. I find the Nakaya Urushi pens tremendously beautiful. But I definitely suffer from allergies and respiratory problems, and this has been even more aggravating as I have also been diagnosed with asthma.

Am I setting myself up for disappointment to aspire to own one of these pens? Thank you!

Respiratory allergies? Asthma? You will most DEFINITELY have ABSOLUTELY NO problem.

That is, with your respiratory system and allergies.

The only problem people have the potential to get with handling fully cured urushi is the rare chance that one is so hypersensitive to urushi that even cured urushi will cause contact dermatitis. There has been no known case of respiratory problems caused by fully cured urushi (except possibly the dust created by sanding it down, but I really dont think you'd want to sand down a nakaya...I hope....). Urushi only has fumes BEFORE it is cured, while still in its liquid form. And even for those who are extra sensitive to urushiol induced contact dermatitis, I'm sure that Nakaya takes precautions to prevent most if not all cases of hypersensitive reactions to their pens.

Feel free to puchase a Nakaya pen. You'll enjoy it immensely. For you though, I simply ask that you refrain from doing your own lacquerwork.

Thank you so much, I can start my savings fund now....