Nib smoothing

[wimg]

Hi Giovanni,

 

I have a few questions and remarks if I may, upon reading your instructions.

 

I see you use a flat surface for nib smoothing, and moving the pen/nib rather than the mylar. I personally think that is ok for grinding nibs, especially italics, but isn't the risk of flat spots etc. a bit high when you do that on normal, rounded nibs?

 

Generally, I use a strip of mylar, and make circular movements in 3 dimensions with virtually no pressure, over the nib, to create the smoothest nib possible. Oh, using 0.3 micron (about 12000 grit) mylar sheets.

 

I agree it is the best to start with the coarsest material and work your way up to the smoothest, especially when grinding, but I do find myself using 1 micron mylar as the coarsest material for smoothing, and quite often just 0.3 nicron.

 

For smoothing the inner surfaces of the tipping on the tines, I never use any mylar coarser than 0.3 micron, as I think it is too easy to create a baby bottom otherwise. So I find it very brave you start with 3 micron .

 

Thanks again for sharing!

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Here's one link to Wim's article.

 

 

Wim's Smoothing Article

 

Hope its the most recent...

 

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

 

I did an edition especially for FPN:

Nib smoothing article

and this still contains the references to the different types of mylar etc. For some reason these have disappeared now from the original article, so the FPN version is the most up-to-date right now. BTW, the title is correct here, too. It was supposed to be "Grinding nib experiences", rather than "Nib grinding experiences" .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[chupie]

Here is my question. Is there any danger of trying the mylar first and if you find that is not enough then going to the larger micron film?

[wimg]

Hi chupie,

 

If you mean trying the finer material first, no, there isn't. As long as you don't create any unwanted flat spots, but that is true for the coarser material, too. As long as you always finish with the finest material, the 0.3 micron mylar, you're fine.

 

BTW, thsi is very easy to spot with decent quality tipping (the "iridium"). Anything coarser than 1 micron gives the tipping a dullish look, almost grey, even to the naked eye. 1 micron mylar makes the greyness disappear, but the 0.3 micron mylar make it really shine like polished chrome .

 

And please, do remember to use a loupe when you do all this, 20X or 30X is what you need.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[tryphon]

Hi Giovanni,

 

I have a few questions and remarks if I may, upon reading your instructions.

 

I see you use a flat surface for nib smoothing, and moving the pen/nib rather than the mylar. I personally think that is ok for grinding nibs, especially italics, but isn't the risk of flat spots etc. a bit high when you do that on normal, rounded nibs?

 

Generally, I use a strip of mylar, and make circular movements in 3 dimensions with virtually no pressure, over the nib, to create the smoothest nib possible. Oh, using 0.3 micron (about 12000 grit) mylar sheets.

 

I agree it is the best to start with the coarsest material and work your way up to the smoothest, especially when grinding, but I do find myself using 1 micron mylar as the coarsest material for smoothing, and quite often just 0.3 nicron.

 

For smoothing the inner surfaces of the tipping on the tines, I never use any mylar coarser than 0.3 micron, as I think it is too easy to create a baby bottom otherwise. So I find it very brave you start with 3 micron .

 

Thanks again for sharing!

 

Warm regards, Wim

In the illustrations I include with the instructions, it is shown that the nib has to be moved over its vertical axis to maintain a round tip. It can also be twirled between thumb and forefinger while the iridium gently touches the mylar. The method I use, using a flat surface is the one that was used by the nib masters working on the production line at old time penmakers. Of course, there are many ways to skin a cat!

[tryphon]

Hi Giovanni,

 

For smoothing the inner surfaces of the tipping on the tines, I never use any mylar coarser than 0.3 micron, as I think it is too easy to create a baby bottom otherwise. So I find it very brave you start with 3 micron .

 

Thanks again for sharing!

 

Warm regards, Wim

For smoothing between the tines, if you only move the nib VERY SLOWLY over a very short stretch (5 cm or so) of 3um mylar, you can get excellent results. The 1um and .3um mylars use a different substrate and can leave a deposit that will foul the intertine space. YMMV, of course.

[wimg]

In the illustrations I include with the instructions, it is shown that the nib has to be moved over its vertical axis to maintain a round tip. It can also be twirled between thumb and forefinger while the iridium gently touches the mylar. The method I use, using a flat surface is the one that was used by the nib masters working on the production line at old time penmakers. Of course, there are many ways to skin a cat!

Hi Giovanni,

 

Thanks for the additional info. I was just a little worried, that's all...

 

Warm regards, Wim

 

edit: added quote

Edited March 6, 2006 by wimg

[wimg]

Hi Giovanni,

For smoothing between the tines, if you only move the nib VERY SLOWLY over a very short stretch (5 cm or so) of 3um mylar, you can get excellent results.

I do this normally with the 0.1 micron mylar.

The 1um and .3um mylars use a different substrate and can leave a deposit that will foul the intertine space.  YMMV, of course.

I assume the 3 micron mylar you're using is soem kind of a MFF mylar version then (abrasives sticking out from the emulsion)? The finest MFF I have is 9 micron; all the others, including the 0.3 and 1.0 micron mylar I use, are 3M ILF, which has the abrasives embedded entirely in the emulsion. This makes it more gentle in it's abrasiveness. However, because the emulsion itself is fairly soft, occasionally this will come off. As these bits are generally small slivers, they are very easy to remove.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[Stylo]

A couple of quick questions.

 

1. Istead of using a hard surface to rest the abrasive on, is there any advantage to laying it on a flat surfae that has just a little bit of give? I ask only because I wonder whether the slight "give" will result in a rounder sanding surface and it might reduce the chances of creating a flat spot? Of course, if the surface gives too much, then the abrasive material may not nicely conform to the curved surface, creating the potential for rough spots. (All of this is intuition based speculation )

 

2. For smoothing between the tines, some people use a brass or acetate film. Does that actually go beyond merely smoothing and removes more material?

[KendallJ]

A couple of quick questions.

 

1. Istead of using a hard surface to rest the abrasive on, is there any advantage to laying it on a flat surfae that has just a little bit of give? I ask only because I wonder whether the slight "give" will result in a rounder sanding surface and it might reduce the chances of creating a flat spot? Of course, if the surface gives too much, then the abrasive material may not nicely conform to the curved surface, creating the potential for rough spots. (All of this is intuition based speculation )

 

2. For smoothing between the tines, some people use a brass or acetate film. Does that actually go beyond merely smoothing and removes more material?

1. I tend to think it does have some effect, but frankly to really radius the nib correctly you need to do more than work the pen on a soft surface. Improperly working the pen, even on a soft surface can leave a flat spot.

 

2. I don't think brass would remove material, unless the material were already loose. Brass is softer than the nib iridium. Wim's trick with strips flossing the nib slit is probably the best.

[tryphon]

A couple of quick questions.

 

1. Istead of using a hard surface to rest the abrasive on, is there any advantage to laying it on a flat surfae that has just a little bit of give?  I ask only because I wonder whether the slight "give" will result in a rounder sanding surface and it might reduce the chances of creating a flat spot?  Of course, if the surface gives too much, then the abrasive material may not nicely conform to the curved surface, creating the potential for rough spots.  (All of this is intuition based speculation  )

 

2. For smoothing between the tines, some people use a brass or acetate film.  Does that actually go beyond merely smoothing and removes more material?

Stylo, maybe there are different schools of thought, but keep in mind that the touch of the nib over the mylar must be VEEEERY light. Barely caressing it already has an effect. Once the pellet is shaped, you barely touch the surface, believe me.

The brass or acetate are nib floss: they do not remove material. They spread the tines increasing ink flow. I find that the brass can mar the surface finish of many nibs, including gold ones, of course. That is why I came up with the acetate, that I have personally used for decades and that's why I include the acetate in my nib smoothing kit.

 

Tryphon Catalog

Edited March 7, 2006 by tryphon

[garythepenman]

This is such an interesting topic.

 

Thanks to Giovanni especially ("good on yer mate"), Wim and everyone else for sharing their knowledge.

I have a few pens that need a nib touch up. I'm feeling a bit more confident now to give it a go. I'll practice on something not too precious.

 

Gary

[amin]

Thank you all for the great information. I am still too chicken to do much work on my pens, but will probably work up the nerve sooner or later. Unfortunately, even the really expensive modern pens frequently come not quite ready to write well straight out of the box. Wim's Edson was a great example. At that price, I'd expect the quality control a bit higher.

[Stylo]

The brass or acetate are nib floss: they do not remove material. They spread the tines increasing ink flow. I find that the brass can mar the surface finish of many nibs, including gold ones, of course. That is why I came up with the acetate, that I have personally used for decades and that's why I include the acetate in my nib smoothing kit.

Wouldn't have a back material with very slight give make the touch lighter and spread the force over a larger area, resulting in less pressure? Kendall, this was more what I was thinking rather than to actually be able to shape the tip with the radius of curvature of the mylar surface when pressed into a softer material.

 

The brass or acetate are nib floss: they do not remove material. They spread the tines increasing ink flow.

Up until now, I wasn't sure whether the purpose of these sheets was to "clean" or smooth in between the tines." But if I understand you correctly, it's neither? The purpose is to actually spread the tines a little. Smoothing in betwwen the tines is done with abrasives.

[wimg]

Thank you all for the great information.  I am still too chicken to do much work on my pens, but will probably work up the nerve sooner or later.  Unfortunately, even the really expensive modern pens frequently come not quite ready to write well straight out of the box.  Wim's Edson was a great example.  At that price, I'd expect the quality control a bit higher.

Hi Amin,

 

I think I need to clarify something here .

 

The Edson was actually writing fine when I got it. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. I just picked the widest M nib I could get, out of quite a large bunch, and that happened to have a burr on the (out)side of the nib. I selected it regardless, in the first place because it was the widest M, and because I thought I could remove the burr myself. It didn't influence writing with it, it wasn't really on the writing part of the tipping. BTW, I tried a total of over 40 nibs with this pen, and even took several home for a few days or even weeks, to see which was the best, for me. This is one of the reasons that that particular store is my favourite B&M store... Also, there is a lifelong warranty on that pen, and they'll exchange it no questions asked, even though they know what I did to it (they do know, and they liked the way it wrote in the end ).

 

Taking that burr away, however, with only the slightest knowledge on how to go about it, resulted in me trying out much too coarse stuff, and making a mess of the tipping, well relatively speaking, because I thought I could make it better than it was. I was still careful. But using 1000 grit is just way too coarse, even more so if you don't know what you're doing. This is one of the reasons I prefer to use the highest grit sizes only, the 1.0 and 0.3 micron mylars.

 

The whole idea of the article originally was to share all of the insights I obtained while going through the process of finding the right materials and finding out how to do all this. It was very difficult to gain the knowledge, because the people sharing at the time, were really all the newbs, who had only heard bits and parts of how it should be done. The articles available, that I could find, didn't help either, as they were generally dealing with nib grinding, rather than nib smoothing, or taking burrs away. And all of the articles I found were describing materials I couldn't find anywhere locally, except for the 1000 grit wet & dry. This was recommended by one of those articles I did find on the Internet, BTW. Fortunately, it has disappeared into oblivion now.

 

Of course, for the materials I finally found the Abrasives Centre, right across the border here, only 15 minutes by car from where I live . And they sold all the stuff I needed, not only to manufacturers, but also to private individuals, unlike any such shop, a distributor, really, in this country here! That was the turning point . And that resulted in the article...

 

Warm regards, Wim

[amin]

Wim, I appreciate the clarification and advice. Even if the Edson was a poor example, I still feel that too many pens ship with the nibs not quite right. For the record, I have an EF nib on my Edson, and the nib is perfection.

Edited March 7, 2006 by amin

[wimg]

Hi Stylo,

The brass or acetate are nib floss: they do not remove material. They spread the tines increasing ink flow. I find that the brass can mar the surface finish of many nibs, including gold ones, of course. That is why I came up with the acetate, that I have personally used for decades and that's why I include the acetate in my nib smoothing kit.

Wouldn't have a back material with very slight give make the touch lighter and spread the force over a larger area, resulting in less pressure? Kendall, this was more what I was thinking rather than to actually be able to shape the tip with the radius of curvature of the mylar surface when pressed into a softer material.

You could use the MicroMesh set for softer material, and use the rubber foam block that comes with it. Mylar is very thin, btw, and has a lot of give if you use it in your hand or, f.e., over the foam block from the MircoMesh kit. That is what I do when smoothing nibs. Shaping, however, needs more abrasive power, and I use arkansas stones for that, those high grit ones, or the 9 micron grit MFF mylar, and normally on a flat surface. I also use an electric nail posisher, with a piece of mylar stuck to a disc, for shaping . Not for smoothing though, that's all light touch manual work .

 

The brass or acetate are nib floss: they do not remove material. They spread the tines increasing ink flow.

Up until now, I wasn't sure whether the purpose of these sheets was to "clean" or smooth in between the tines." But if I understand you correctly, it's neither? The purpose is to actually spread the tines a little. Smoothing in betwwen the tines is done with abrasives.

You can use nib floss to clean the slit, but you have to make sure it doesn't get in between the tipping, because you could easily alter the flow that way. BTW, this is assuming the sheets fit in the split between the tines... If they don't , there is a potential for accidentally adjusting the ink flow as well. I think brass may be a lot thinner than a sheet of acetate in this regard, but as Giovanni indicates, it may scratch the nib; acetate doesn't. And smoothing in between the tines, rather the tipping where the slit starts, is indeed done with abrasives. The idea is to just take away the sharpest of edges, so that the inside of the tines doesn't catch the paper you're writing on. If you take away too much, you create a baby bottom, and there is a rather delicate balance between a smooth nib and a baby bottomed nib .

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Wim, I appreciate the clarification and advice.  Even if the Edson was a poor example, I still feel that too many pens ship with the nibs not quite right.  For the record, I have an EF nib on my Edson, and the nib is perfection.

Hi Amin,

 

Well, I have two Edsons currently, and they both are too. The second one I acquired unseen...

 

Warm regards, Wim

[Stylo]

Many thanks to both Gio and Wim.

[amin]

Well I just decided to buy the nib smoothing kit and 30x loupe from Tryphon. Not sure if the loupe will give me better sight than the reversed 50mm camera lens I've been using, but worth a shot I figure. One question - when you all say to use the sheets wet, do you mean dry sheet/wet pen, wet sheet/dry pen, or wet sheet/wet pen? In other words, should the pen have ink in it, and do I directly wet the sheets with water?