Palmer Method

[kerotan]

I need your help. And advice. I have a pdf of the Palmer Method of Business Writing, and I'm wondering if it is worth it to learn this? I want to improve my penmanship, so will this study help me?

 

I read that this teaches writing with the arm, not by the fingers and I've noticed that I've been using a mix of these two disciplines (habit, rather). So I'm asking you guys, is it worth it, or is there something more worth my time?

[calliej]

if you want to write in THAT style then yes - if you dont want your writing to look like that then no

 

its actually really good if you suffer writing cramps - using the arm instead of the hand minimises that problem (for me at least)....

[Pink Ink]

If your goals are 100% aesthetic, then only you can make that decision.

 

But if your goals are more practical, it might be worth looking at as the script was designed for fast and efficient writing, especially for long periods of time.

 

It reminds me of Spencerian but I'm not sure if there's any relation between the two.

 

[LillianAd]

My goodness, I was taught to write using the Palmer method and didn't even know about it. Sadly, as with many of you, my handwriting's taken a back to seat to typing but has been revived by FPs. For the past few weeks i was struggling to learn the 'italic' way of writing but haven't been having much success.

 

I take one look at the Palmer method and I want to jump!

 

 

Now I need to polish up on it. Kerotan, where can I download a PDF?

 

 

[vermiculus]

Playing with calligraphy is great fun!

 

If you spend some time learning italics, or gothic, or copperplate, or any other hand, then adopting the parts you like into your daily handwriting becomes very easy. I find that I can 'apply' copperplate or flourished italics to my normal writing, and it makes them look very different - depending on whether I am using a stub or a fine nib, for instance.

[RLTodd]

I don't think so, unless you really want to.

 

If one wanted to learn a new handwriting style I would go with Cursive Italic.

 

I think it is better on a functional level.

 

Just an opinion, YMMV..........

[paolimd]

Kerotan:

Just like LillianAd, I was taught the Palmer Method in grade school, but I didn't know it! I Came to realize it some years ago, while at Medical School, when I decided to improve my penmanship, having been ruined by fast note-taking in College. It seems to have worked, since most of my patients comment that I must be just about the only physician they know whose handwriting they can understand :-). BTW: I used to get hand cramps, but not any more---. As with everything one wants to master, it takes practice, practice and ....MORE PRACTICE.

 

To LillianAd: you may go to Iampeth (www.iampeth.com) to get an array of downloadable Palmer Method PDF's (there are three different ones.) Plus, you'll also find aditional methods and samples, like Mary Champion's, Kelchner's, Behrensmeyer's, Mills' and others; they all penned somewhat like Palmer - excellent examples and instructions on Business Writing. Also, try out Peterson's (www.peterson-handwriting.com); it's similar to Palmer's, easier to learn and practice, and faster.

 

I hope this may have helped you both. Enjoy, and have fun writing.

[kerotan]

Thank you for all your replies guys! I wasn't taught the Palmer Method in school, so that's why I asked if it is worth my time learning it. I'm kind of new to calligraphy so I'm searching for hands/scripts that I find appealing.

 

Learning calligraphy is indeed fun! I really want to add my own "style", so to say, in existing scripts, so I guess I'll look around and practice

 

I think I got the pdf here in FPN (can't remember exactly where though), but paolimd is right, you can go to iampeth.com

 

Thanks!

[LillianAd]

Thank you for all your replies guys! I wasn't taught the Palmer Method in school, so that's why I asked if it is worth my time learning it. I'm kind of new to calligraphy so I'm searching for hands/scripts that I find appealing.

 

Learning calligraphy is indeed fun! I really want to add my own "style", so to say, in existing scripts, so I guess I'll look around and practice

 

I think I got the pdf here in FPN (can't remember exactly where though), but paolimd is right, you can go to iampeth.com

 

Thanks!

 

 

Got the electronic book. Thanks to you all for your help.

[Shell]

I also recommend italics. I learned it a few years back with my son (he's now 13) to improve his illegible handwriting. I recommend the Getty and Dubay series for everyone, but for adults be sure to get Italic Handwriting Series book G. It's for adult learners and not only has writing instruction, it contains much history about the development of writing, and many samples of adult writing for copying and inspiration. I love this book, and still use the samples for practice.

 

Have fun!

[ToughHouseRook]

While italics may be slightly more practical, they just don't look anywhere near as nice as script, imho. You also don't need to have a special nib to write proper script like you do with italic print. Even still I am going to learn it after I am satisfied with my Spencerian just for when I need to write fast notes and such.

[Firochromis]

Soo, I found this old thread. Anyone studying Palmer Method? I have some questions

[bsunde]

Soo, I found this old thread. Anyone studying Palmer Method? I have some questions

 

I've learned it. Ask away!

[Firochromis]

Wow, you're my hero

 

Allright, I have been training this method for a week now and as far as I understand, "muscular action" means that the movement is formed from the shoulders, I need to confirm this. I realized this by rereading the first sections today. What I used to do was placing right elbow as a pivot and create the movement by highly flexible fingers. The result was not that bad, but I want to learn the original way. From the book I understand that fingers and wrist must be semi-rigid, and the writing action is done by moving whole arm forward and back from the shoulders. Is that true?

 

Another and probably of less importance question is this (sorry guys but you need to have the Palmer e-book in order to follow the question): I' m practicing the Drill 1 in the page 19. My drawings is nothing like the one on the book, but what I'm surprised is the phrase in the page 20. It is said that there must be some 200 downward strokes (or upward strokes) in the 4 inches long section of the page. And as if this is possible it is also said that, this 200 downward strokes must be performed in a minute! Well, I think this is impossible. Am I missing something? :hmm1:

 

More questions may follow but don't want to afraid you

 

Best regards,

[nxn96]

Not presently learning it, but it's what I learned back in the early 1960's (probably the good Sisters were too cheap to buy new penmanship texts). I'm not sure how true I've remained to it over the years, but a number of people (usually others who also went to Catholic schools) will comment on how "nun-like" my handwriting is. Secure in my manhood and reasonably comfortable with my Church, I take the observations in a positive way. When I sense my penmanship is slipping, or if I'm just looking to test out a newly inked pen or someone else's roller/ballpen that I've admired, I'll do a set of the "O's" or "Sticks" that the Palmer folks made you do ad infinitum before you were allowed to form a single letter.

 

Compared to the simple "print-write" cursive that they seem to teach in schools these days, Palmer Method almost seems Spencerian by comparison; particularly if you try to follow their example in each and every letter (the Palmer "Q" is especially elegant). On the other hand, Palmer stressed the idea of "training" the hand in the formation of letters- the reason for all the O's and Sticks- such that you ended up with a consistent product; even if it never looked quite as good as the samples in the book.

 

Legibility, speed, consistency, comfort are what the Palmer Method stresses. The fact that it is a pretty darned easy on the eyes if done by the book is icing on the cake.

 

Do the "O's" and the "Sticks" and see where it takes you.

[bsunde]

You are doing great! Everything will work out fine if you continue to practice like that.

 

Different authors mean slightly different things when referring to "muscular action," but in this Palmer book it is quite easy. I wouldn't call it muscular at all. (I think that term was used to masculinize handwriting at the time). Basically you place the elbow as a pivot like you are doing and then just move your forearm back and forth (in the sleeve, as Palmer says....keeping in mind you need a long-sleeve button-down shirt for this to work. hahah.) It is the exact same movement you would make if you were waving to someone without any wrist movement, or scrubbing a spot off of the bathtub. I hope I'm explaining it well. Does that make sense?

 

But...this is important: Not all letters will be formed equally with "muscular movement." I don't remember if I read it in the Palmer book or some other muscular movement book, but your fingers will assist in making the miniscule letters and the ascenders (with a little help from the forearm) but the capital letters and descenders will be done with "muscular movement." You can verify that this makes sense. It is easy to make an upward "l" with the fingers plus forearm, but rather difficult to make the bottom loop of "g" with only the fingers. Let your forearm make the loop on the g. Unless you are doing really big fancy capital letters, you won't be using shoulder movement at all. Once you get the basic motions just do what works best for you!

 

page 19 and 20: keep in mind that you are only making ovals and lines that are a total of two spaces = 3/4 (3/8 + 3/8)inch high. It's not impossible to do 200 in a minute. Actually I think you will find that you could do close to 240 a minute. The exercise reminds me of when I was a kid and would fill in a section of a coloring book with a colored pencil really fast (without moving the fingers or wrist).

 

Hope that helps!

[LisaN]

I am learning Zaner Arm Movement 1915 and LOVING it.

So yes, old time penmanship methods are worth learning- same stuff- push-pull and ovals, lots of ovals.

My cursive (even when I cheat with my fingers) is now more legible than my manuscript printing was.

[Firochromis]

Thank you everybody for your support and really sorry for the late reply.

 

bsunde, Your input is extremly helpful for me. Now I know that I'm on the right way. In fact after your reply and the kid with the colored pencil example I tried the exercise and saw that I can make it. More interesting is, after "warming" my hand for half of the page my high-speed results are better than my low-speed ones.. yay

 

Another question is the pen holding technique. Since my head is full of questions on my penholding, I show special interest to penholding threads. In a parallel thread on the Penmanship Forum I saw a penholding technique called "Tripod pen holding" and to my surprise this exactly my technique.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/163184-the-tripod-or-triangular-pen-hold/

 

So, I'm confused now. Naturally my fingers hold it as tripodian, and when I noticed them, move to Palmerian, after sometime it's again tripodian etc.. I must say that I gain some success with the Palmerian, but changing the pen holding technique demands more energy than changing the writing style. I'm asking this not because I'm reluctant to study, but if it's wiser to orient my full energy to change the my writing style. What should you suggest, go Palmerian?

Edited September 8, 2010 by Firochromis

[bsunde]

No worries about the grip. Sounds like you are doing just fine.

 

It seems to me that the only major difference between the tripod grip you are used to using and the Palmerian grip is that in the Palmer (and Spencerian) method the flesh on the side of your hand and the wrist do not touch the paper. Both grips are "tripodian" in that your fingers hold the pen the same way.

 

There are advantages to having your wrist off the paper. You can write longer words without having to lift your pen (and hand) off of the paper. It is also easier to move the paper when going across the page . You are moving the paper instead of your hand/arm, right? And finally, no wrist on the paper means no unsightly grease spots, hahah. But seriously, haven't you noticed that with the usual grip as you move down the paper the ink sometimes doesn't get absorbed as well?

 

I have to admit, though, that the Palmerian grip does feel strange, especially at first. And it seems harder to control your movements. Personally I think it doesn't matter too much which grip you use. I have a Gregg Shorthand manual from 1916 and you are supposed to use the same Palmer-type grip for writing shorthand. But there are a few pictures of famous court reporters of the day with their whole hand on the page, and a couple with something in between.

 

If I were you I would continue to practice the Palmer method with both grips for a while and see where it takes you. If your regular tripod grip gives you the best results in the long-term, go ahead and use it. If you are sufficiently impressed by the advantages of the Palmerian/Spencerian hand position then go ahead with that one. And once you've learned the Palmer method, don't be afraid to tweak it to make it your own.