Actual weights and volumes - Noodler's Ink

[Claes]

Hi all,

 

A question somewhere else made me check

how much ink there actually is in a Noodler ink bottle.

The one I checked was an Antietam.

 

The text on the box promises 3oz 90ml.

The text on the label says 3oz.

But the imprint on the bottom of the bottle says just 2oz! (= 60ml).

 

http://www.algonet.se/~claesg/pix/2ozSmall.jpg

 

Actual weight of full bottle = 167 gram

Actual weight of empty bottle = 87 gram

Actual weight of ink = 80 gram

Actual volume of ink = 75 ml

 

Since the promised 90 ml is a volume,

it seems as if 15 ml of ink is missing.

 

Sincerely,

Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

http://www.algonet.se/~claesg

[Goodwhiskers]

I can confirm that the text of the imprint on the bottom says "2 OZ."

I don't have the equipment to measure my ink amounts, and all of my Noodler's bottles have had at least some ink taken out of them already, anyway.

Comments from anyone else?

[Roger]

Most interesting, Claes. I just got my bottle of Antietam out and the imprint on the bottom of the bottle clearly says 3 oz. I then opened two more Noodler's bottles. One was Iraqi Indigo and the other was American Eel Blue. They both had 2 oz. imprints on the bottom of the bottles. Physically, they all look identical in size and shape.

 

A typical fill in most industry is mid shoulder, but to go from mid shoulder to brim full hardly seems to be another full oz. of ink. And, why the different bottom imprints?

 

I have some 22 bottles of Noodlers here. A few are the 4.5 oz bottles but most are the 3 oz. I haven't time right now to open them all, but will, later on.

 

An email to Luxury Brands might be more productive than an email to Nathan. Nathan has times when he communicates readily and with great volume, but at other times, you can't get a peep out of him. Lately, he's been in one of the latter modes.

 

Wonder what is going on?

Edited February 23, 2006 by Roger

[saintsimon]

Hmm, I've got 2 bottles from thewritingdesk/UK from 2005 and two bottles from Ray/UK from 2005. They all say the same, Bottle 2 oz, label 3 oz, package 3 oz / 90ml.

 

Strange, the discrepancies are too obvious. Time for Nathan to clarify.

 

 

[EDIT: date of purchase from thewritingdesk corrected to 2005/ they started to sell it last year ]

Edited February 23, 2006 by saintsimon

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

You are right.

 

My bottle says 3 OZ though and it holds 77ML.

 

Dillon

 

Thanks Claes!!!

Edited February 23, 2006 by Dillo

[KCat]

for a while Nathan was filling bottles to the brim. I don't think he was terribly consistent on that. Mine have all been full such that upon first opening them, i spilled.

[saintsimon]

for a while Nathan was filling bottles to the brim.  I don't think he was terribly consistent on that.  Mine have all been full such that upon first opening them, i spilled.

For me, and maybe for some others, it is not that relevant. But for the manufacurer and the retailers it is. They are obliged to follow regulations concerning declaration of the sold goods.

 

And some competitors may use that weak point.

Edited February 23, 2006 by saintsimon

[Ink Stained Wretch]

This is curious. I have a lot of bottles of Noodler's inks and a fast check of a couple of them shows bottles imprinted "3 oz" and bottles imprinted "2 oz" on the bottom. All bottles are the same size.

 

Maybe Nathan got a deal on bottles mislabelled "2 oz." I've bought mislabelled things cheaply in the past.

 

I've never emptied a bottle of Noodler's ink yet, almost but not quite yet, so I haven't had a chance to actually measure capacity.

 

I've looked at two of my 4½ ounce Noodler's bottles and one has "42" and some dots imprinted on the bottom and the other has "30" and a slightly different pattern of dots imprinted on the bottom.

 

I guess we need to have some other folks actually measure the capacity of a bottle and confirm or deny the 75 ml capacity. Maybe someone will ask Nathan about this issue.

[Stylo]

Whether the bottle contains 75ml or 90ml is not that big of a deal to me. But the maker has always emphasized the bargain pirce per volume of Noodler's. Someone need to actually empty a whole bottle and measure the capacity. I don't have the bottles in front of me, but from memory, they seemed fairly big. So even they are not 90ml, they shouldn't be too far off.

[wimg]

Those bottles are really powder bottles, as Nathan explained to me. I don't know how accurate these are, but the one bottle of Noodler's I haven't tried yet, weighs in at 6.02 oz, or 170.8 grams. This one is filled almost to the brim, as all of these botles were.

 

One bottle of ink I have that is exactly half full, now weighs 121.2 grams, or 4.27 oz. That tells me there should be at least 3 oz in a bottle, at least in mine. BTW, my scale is accurate to 0.01 of a gram, but only indicates to 0.1 of a gram.

 

Also, ink is barely, if at all, denser than water. So assuming that 80 grams of ink equals 75 ml is not correct anyway, IMO. It is about the same. Still not enough, but I really wonder what is happening here, as I don't seem to have this problem.

 

Another thing regarding the 2 vs 3 oz debate: I looked at all of my 15 bottles, and all are 3 oz bottles. However, with half of them at first glance they seemed to be 2 oz bottles, just by turning them in the light a bit I could see the 2 wasn't a 2 but a 3. Those numbers are cast in with the bottles and therefore not to clear anyway. None of the 3s are perfect, but many are way off perfect.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[saintsimon]

Well, on my four bottles there is definitely 2 oz (checked with a loupe).

 

BTW: A bottle which should hold 90 ml of ink should not be filled exactly to the rim with that amount of ink. That would be unprofessional, there should be a little space between cap and ink level.

 

Doesn't any body have an empty Noodler's bottle to measure the right volume? weight of the liquid is the second best option

[beaker606]

Hi all,

 

I don't know if this helps the conversation or make it more confused, but on the www.noodlersink.com website it says:

 

" Noodler's Ink is bottled by weight, 1, 3, and 4.5 ounces of ink per bottle. "

 

So, what is the volume of an amount of ink that weighs in at 3 ounces? I have no idea.

 

Kevin

Beaker606

[Tricia]

Since ink is mostly water, this probably doesn't apply, but back in my old fabric dyeing days, the weights of different dyes varied considerably. I would expect in precise weighing of the ink that equal amounts by volume might weigh (slightly) differently.

 

(In a random check of three of my Noodler's bottles, I have two 2-oz. and one 3-oz. - all the same size.)

 

[saintsimon]

BTW:

 

A quick look at the bottom of a nice Diamine bottle only reveals that those bottles are made in Italy .

[Ink Stained Wretch]

Hi all,

 

I don't know if this helps the conversation or make it more confused, but on the www.noodlersink.com website it says:

 

" Noodler's Ink is bottled by weight, 1, 3, and 4.5 ounces of ink per bottle. "

Yes, it does say that! I never noticed this before. I've assumed that it was measured by the fluid ounce as other inks are. Other inks are measured by fluid measure, aren't they?

 

So, what is the volume of an amount of ink that weighs in at 3 ounces?  I have no idea.

 

I've weighed a couple of bottles of Noodler's inks on a postal scale I have, and I've also weighed a bottle of Pelikan Brilliant Black. All came in right about at 6 ounces. So are we to gather that Noodler's inks are really two fluid ounces? I weighed an empty two ounce bottle of old Skrip and it was about 3 ounces. So, assuming that the weight of glass in all of these bottles is not too different then the 3 ounces by weight would seem to be the case.

 

This certainly means that my price comparisons with other inks have been way off for the past two years. I've been comparing three ounces of Noodler's to two ounces of most other inks.

 

So doing a little fast arithmetic I guess that the "Boston Round" 4½ ounce bottles are really 3 fluid ounces.

 

Noodler's inks are rather more expensive than I'd thought.

 

Hold on. After posting I've looked more at the page referenced and for the new Polar Black ink they say it's "3 oz. (90 ml.) Bottle/MSRP $13.50."

 

Also, some of the authorized dealers say that the 3 ounces is 90 ml or "almost 90 ml" on the page where they're selling Noodler's inks. So I guess that they were laboring under the same misapprehension as I was. Looks like some Web pages need to be changed.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Ink Stained Wretch

[Stylo]

I weighed an empty two ounce bottle of old Skrip and it was about 3 ounces. So, assuming that the weight of glass in all of these bottles is not too different

That's an assumption I would not so easily make.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Stylo

[KCat]

For me, and maybe for some others, it is not that relevant. But for the manufacurer and the retailers it is. They are obliged to follow regulations concerning declaration of the sold goods.

 

And some competitors may use that weak point.

no doubt - i was just adding information to the discussion. it points to, IMO, a general hm... uh... looking for the diplomatic term but can't find it so I'll say "sloppy" approach. And it may point not to Nathan but to someone else - I do not know if he is still the one filling bottles and labeling them.

 

it does give me pause though - since this puts the 80ml Diamine inks at equal or better cost assuming they are more accurately dispensed

[Titivillus]

Hi all,

 

I don't know if this helps the conversation or make it more confused, but on the www.noodlersink.com website it says:

 

" Noodler's Ink is bottled by weight, 1, 3, and 4.5 ounces of ink per bottle. "

 

So, what is the volume of an amount of ink that weighs in at 3 ounces? I have no idea.

 

Kevin

Beaker606

I think that's the volume for the special ink, regular bottle and eyedropper top bottle.

 

Kurt H

[Titivillus]

Since the promised 90 ml is a volume,

it seems as if 15 ml of ink is missing.

 

Sincerely,

Claes in Lund, Sweden

Have you emailed Nathan directly to ask him about it?

 

 

Kurt H

[Stylo]

I pulled out my various ink bottles last night, including two Noodler's. I put the 45ml bottle of Aurora next to the Noodler's. The bases of the two bottles have almost the same dimensions. The Noodler's bottle is slightly taller, by at most 5-10%. Even accounting for the apparance that the walls of the Aurora bottle are thicker, it seems highly unlikely that the Noodler's bottle can hold twice the amount of ink as the Aurora bottle. It looks like the Noodler's bottle can hold at most 2 to 2.3oz of ink.

 

As to the markings at the bottom of Noodler's bottles, a quick check revealed one clear "2 oz" marking. The other one was hard to make out.

 

Given some of the demonstrably wrong claims in a recent article about pH and rates of corrosion by Noodler's maker, one wonders if there is also a need to verify the pH claims of Noodler's ink.

 

None of this looks good, especially since such a big deal was made about the price per volume of Noodler's. But then noneof this implies, of course, that there is anything wrong with the ink itself.

 

As a side note, Waterman bottles are marked 50ml / 2 oz. But 2oz is 1.7 to 1.76 oz (US & UK). Looking at the bottom of the bottle one finds the marking "2oz APPROX"

---

PS: I had an incredibly hard time getting this message posted. Perhaps some control chracters got snuck in and my submission was being rejected. Pasting into emacs and then back into the foum took care of the problem. My apologies if you saw this post in bits and pieces first.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Stylo