Letter Closings

[Maria]

Dear ginigin,

 

Your post reminded me of my Uncle Ray in Florida. He is a minister. He closes his letters "Yours in Christ."

 

I still love the Civil War "Official Records of the Rebellion" officer's closing lines; regardless to whom it is addressed to in rank -- Your Obedient Servant.

 

My friend closes her letters a lot of times and I like it enough to adopt it -- Respectfully submitted for consideration; if it is something with a flavor of a report, an idea, etc.

 

For railroad/trolley buffs -- Look both ways before crossing the railroad tracks of life.

 

I can see, Respectfully, Sincerely, Your friend, etc., as well.

 

Perhaps -- I'm finished for now, etc.

 

Really is interesting how many ways a letter can end.

 

Respectfully,

Maria

Edited September 2, 2008 by Maria

[callida]

What a terrific thread!

 

I'm a bit confused about the use of "vale" though. As described on this thread, meaning something like "good health" or "go with strength", I think it's a fantastic closing - simple, interesting and just what I would want to convey to my friends.

 

However, the only context in which I've ever seen it used is in obituaries, which might commonly be titled something like "Vale John Smith". Very odd, if it can mean good health! Google tells me that "aeturnum vale" (farewell forever) is commonly used on tombstones, though this makes more sense to me because the meaning is obviously qualified by the "forever".

 

I wouldn't want my friends to think I'm wishing them something else altogether ...

 

I've never learnt Latin so I'm probably just confused. Or maybe it means something else in another language altogether (Italian? Another language I don't speak).

 

Is this use of the phrase common in other parts of the world? Or can anyone clarify?

 

"Vale" gets used in a variety of contexts, as you've noted. All of them are variations on the same thing. "Vale" simply means "Be well." It's an imperative -- in other words, an instruction or a command, not an option. And "farewell" = "fare well" -- same thing. Sometimes the old folks said "fare thee well." Sometimes "Vale" is translated as "Godspeed" but that's obviously only appropriate if the recipient is going somewhere.

 

I've always thought that "Vale" is where Mr. Spock's writers came up with "Live long and prosper." The sentiment is the same.

 

The word is Latin, so it shows up worldwide. I wouldn't say it's common.

 

Thank you, Bill, that's both useful and interesting. For some reason I hadn't considered the (with hindsight, rather obvious) farewell/fare well link.

 

For what it's worth, I typically use the closings "Cheers" (with friends and some family, or in a casual email to colleagues), "Regards/Kind regards" (more formal work correspondence by email) and the standard "Yours faithfully" on any letter sent from work. Very typical and dull! By and large that's necessary at work (for me) but I will have to give some thought to more creative possibilities for personal correspondence.

[Djehuty]

I've been using "Cheers" of late, but I remain less than perfectly satisfied with that closing. "Sincerely" seems too form-letterish for friends. I've considered using a typical Egyptian closing, but that's even worse than the Latin for comprehensibility -- even worse considering that my hieroglyphic hand isn't the best.

 

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3452/nfrsnbkao8.png

 

Transliterated nfr snb.k, it means, "It is good that you are well."

 

[goaliedad30]

I love writing letters to my friends but I've grown quite weary of using such endings as "Sincerely" and "Always." Anyone have any better suggestions? What are your favorite "parting shots" to close friends or family?

 

Hmmm ... you could either use "His Supreme Intergalactic Excellency" or "Dude" .... :-)

[Ernst Bitterman]

"Caue Lector" could either be kindly or menacing, depending on the recipient's mood at the time.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Ernst Bitterman

[zquilts]

My uncle always used to close with:

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

...and I use it now with good friends.

Edited September 8, 2008 by zquilts

[Maria]

Dear zquilts,

 

I certainly wish I knew Latin well enough. Is there meaning to the closing your uncle used?

 

My uncle always used to close with:

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

...and I use it now with good friends.

 

Respectfully,

Maria

[BillTheEditor]

Dear zquilts,

 

I certainly wish I knew Latin well enough. Is there meaning to the closing your uncle used?

 

My uncle always used to close with:

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

...and I use it now with good friends.

 

Respectfully,

Maria

This is not necessarily safe for family. Turn away if you are easily offended.

 

 

 

 

"Illegitimi non carborundum" means "Don't let the b*stards grind you down." Sometimes people translate "carborundum as "wear" instead of "grind". It doesn't really matter, since "carborundum" is a trade name, not an actual Latin word and "illegitimi" is not actually a Latin word, either -- the sentence is what you might call pseudo-Latin.

Edited September 10, 2008 by BillTheEditor

[Maria]

Dear BillTheEditor,

 

OOoooooooooooo-- Thank you for your translation!

 

Do you by chance know of a decent translation program to translate English to Latin?

 

I want to write a Latin phrases correctly.

 

Respectfully,

Maria

 

[BillTheEditor]

Dear BillTheEditor,

 

OOoooooooooooo-- Thank you for your translation!

 

Do you by chance know of a decent translation program to translate English to Latin?

 

I want to write a Latin phrases correctly.

 

Respectfully,

Maria

Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a program that does English-to-Latin translations. At least not a reliable program.

 

There is http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_latin.html but it really doesn't do a very good job.

 

Because Latin is a highly inflected language, doing machine translation is a very difficult challenge.

[Maria]

Dear BillTheEditor;

 

Nuts.

 

Well, that is too bad that the translator programs do not 'translate' properly.

 

Thank you for the effort!

 

I had wanted to translate: "Be respectful, these grounds are where heros walked."

 

Only other thought, is having someone in the Catholic Church, see if they could translate it properly.

 

Again, many thanks!

 

Respectfully,

Maria

 

 

[Marsilius]

I also like the Dutch "grietjes" (sic) (informal "greetings", but said at the end)

 

For what it's worth, the correct spelling in Dutch is "groetjes."

 

Sorry, typo! My worst was saying "Groentjes"!

 

Mars

[hardyb]

I had wanted to translate: "Be respectful, these grounds are where heros walked."

 

Respectfully,

Maria

 

Perhaps one of theses catches the spirit:

 

Veneratio is locus , hic vir ingredior: Respect this place, here heroes walked

 

Exsisto reverens , hic vir ingredior: Be reverent, here heroes walked

 

Vir ingredior hic , exsisto reverens: Heroes walked here, be reverent

 

Exsisto etiam , vir ingredior hic: Be still, heroes walked here

 

Exsisto etiam , in is terra vir ingredior: Be still, on this earth heroes walked

 

Exsisto etiam , hic vir ingredior: Be still, here heroes walked

Edited September 10, 2008 by hardyb

[BillTheEditor]

Dear BillTheEditor;

 

Nuts.

 

Well, that is too bad that the translator programs do not 'translate' properly.

 

Thank you for the effort!

 

I had wanted to translate: "Be respectful, these grounds are where heros walked."

 

Only other thought, is having someone in the Catholic Church, see if they could translate it properly.

 

Again, many thanks!

 

Respectfully,

Maria

hardyb has given you some good choices. There might be more eloquent ways to say it, but his are perfectly good.

 

You would need to find an old priest if you went to a church, and even that might not work. Seminaries haven't taught Latin since the 70's, and even back in the day, not all priests were adept at translating English into Latin (the usual problem was translating the Latin into English, which isn't as difficult). Some priests were (and are) brilliant Latin scholars, but most only got as good at Latin as they had to be. You may have heard the old student doggerel: "Latin is a dead language/it's plain enough to see/First it killed all the Romans/and now it's killing me." Not an easy language.

 

You could also find a Latin teacher in your local schools -- they do still teach Latin in the larger school districts, and the teachers are pretty good because they get lots of practice. Also they love the language, which is important.

Edited September 10, 2008 by BillTheEditor

[Johnny Appleseed]

At my previous job, I started ending letters and emails with

 

Here to serve,

 

I wish that were more the norm. Where I work it has become commonplace to end emails with the ending "Please advise. . .", especially from a superior to and inferior, or in any case where there is an expectation of an answer, complaint, etc. It seems rude to me, and at odds with what is normally a more respectful corporate culture.

 

I remember running across an article about letter ettiquite from the 1880s or some such, during a google search, and being surprised at how little our (American, at least) style of letter closings have changed. The generally approved closings were "Sincerly", "Yours Truly," "Very Truly Yours," etc. with "Respectfully Yours" only considered appropriate if it was too someone you wished to convey particular respect.

 

This book - The hand-book of letter-writing from 1861 (with apologies to those outside of the US who may be restricted from access to Google Books) - has some interesting closings. It is a selection of actual letters from actual people at the time, some of them very interesting (Dickens and a few other literary figures show up here). I like the professional closing of "Yours Faithfully" and the informal one "Ever Yours, en amitie (from a woman to her close friend).

 

I also like the correspondence between Queen Victoria and US President James Buchanan, particularly Victoria's response to the invitation for the Prince of Wales to visit the President at the White House during his visit to Canada and the US. The Queen begins the letter simply "My Good friend" and ends it "I remain ever, your good friend". It seemed so refreshingly cordial and without pretense, especially for a letter from a Royal.

 

John

[Maria]

Dear HardyB;

 

Thank you so very much!

 

Much appreciated!

 

Respectfully,

Maria

[Maria]

Dear BillTheEditor,

 

Good advice. Thank you very much!

 

Respectfully,

Maria

[hellkitty]

 

 

Perhaps one of theses catches the spirit:

 

Veneratio is locus , hic vir ingredior: Respect this place, here heroes walked

 

Exsisto reverens , hic vir ingredior: Be reverent, here heroes walked

 

Vir ingredior hic , exsisto reverens: Heroes walked here, be reverent

 

Exsisto etiam , vir ingredior hic: Be still, heroes walked here

 

Exsisto etiam , in is terra vir ingredior: Be still, on this earth heroes walked

 

Exsisto etiam , hic vir ingredior: Be still, here heroes walked

 

Begging to differ but the initial sense the seeker was looking for was a jussive subjunctive, wasn't it? And ingredior means 'to go into' rather than to walk (Ingredients 'go into' food--they don't walk!). And is still in the infinitive. Dagnabbit! These 'translation' sites really screw people up!

 

I don't have my grammar book with me, but noodling for a moment or two, here's what I came up with:

 

Reverens sit, viri hic incessi sunt. (You, be reverent--a subjunctive command if I remember aright--men here have walked.)

 

It's probably not in the spirit of perfect Latin to use the verb 'to be' twice, but the word order is suitably Latinate, from what I can remember from when I actually studied the dang language. In fact, looking at it, it might be better to have the second clause as pluperfect: "viri hic incessi fuerunt," though I don't think anyone would really quibble about the simple past instead, which I think sounds a bit better.

 

Am going to save you the trouble of beating me up for my oppressive dorkitude and will go pound my own head into doorframe. Sorry. I just think of poor Franz, my freshman year Latin TA and how he'd blotch up and get weepy if someone used the wrong verb tense..... You don't want to make Franz cry, do you!?

 

HK, who hates herself for being such a geek sometimes.

 

[Maria]

Dear hellkitty,

 

Thank you for your observations and comments.

 

My nephew's Japanese wife said the same thing as far as online translations. A person could get into real trouble. So, it seems with Latin also.

 

Respectfully,

Maria

[hardyb]

Begging to differ but the initial sense the seeker was looking for was a jussive subjunctive, wasn't it? And ingredior means 'to go into' rather than to walk (Ingredients 'go into' food--they don't walk!). And is still in the infinitive. I don't have my grammar book with me, but noodling for a moment or two, here's what I came up with:

 

Reverens sit, viri hic incessi sunt. (You, be reverent--a subjunctive command if I remember aright--men here have walked.)

 

It's probably not in the spirit of perfect Latin to use the verb 'to be' twice, but the word order is suitably Latinate, from what I can remember from when I actually studied the dang language. In fact, looking at it, it might be better to have the second clause as pluperfect: "viri hic incessi fuerunt," though I don't think anyone would really quibble about the simple past instead, which I think sounds a bit better.

 

Don't let it bother you at all. I am just a barbarian and still washing the wode off.

 

Roma locuta est. Causa finita est - Rome has spoken. The cause is finished

Edited September 11, 2008 by hardyb