Pen Brands World Wide

[Lexaf]

21-11-2006

 

:meow: Hello

 

This week I worked on 'the grand list'.

 

First:

Mutations on already existing records. Most of them have supplementary data I found, and some of them changed because I tried to 'normalize' the record, especially where in my opinion, the 'BRANDING' and the 'NAME' field where mixed up.

In some cases you will see the same name now in 'NAME' as in "BRANDING', that is where the name of the company is the same as the (trade mark) name on the pen itself. (example: I changed ,Acme,,,,,MP to Acme,Acme,USA,Current,CC,LE)

This has something to do with the problem 'model'names versus 'brand'names and like many others in this tread i do not have a solution yet so solve that problem, so I will continue the convention of using trade mark names and model names in the same 'NAME'field.

 

Second:

New entries to add to the list. I entered some entries for the very well known brands as well. I realise that there was a discussion on wether or not to enter the 'top brand names'. (as everybody would know these allready). I think that ALL names should be entered because everyone that wants to use this list must be able to find his or her pens to identify, also the less expirienced collectors. But also the diehards among us can benefit from this because then it will be possible to make reference to the exotic brands and trade marks or less known model names that are associated with the top firms.

 

Third:

Added attributes for Style (Filler Type):

CC = Cartridge/Converter Filler

CO = Cartridge Only Filler

CR = Crescent Filler

SA = Safety Filler

 

Added attribute for Contrib:

LE = LEXAF = Lex van Galen, the Netherlands = yours truly

 

 

I hope I used a format that Gerry can use for updating the 'grand list'

Note that I left out the '#' field (obsolete, IMHO) and I changed the delimiter " comma space " into a single " comma ", as it would not fit into my database program with a space as first character in each field. (That is what happened when I tried to convert the original list directly into my application).

If the changes where not significant I kept the original Contributor code, for major updates and new entries I took the freedom to use a new contributor code for myself: LE

 

If you find problems, please let me know.

 

I'd like to post the first results hereunder. I hope for lots of comments!

 

NAME,BRANDING,COUNTRY,DATE,STYLE,CONTRIB

Carter(s),Carter Pen Co.,USA, Mass., Boston,1926-1932,,LE

Diabolo,Cartier,France,Current,CC,LE

Pasha,Cartier,France,Current,CC,LE

Trinity,Cartier,France,Current,CC,LE

Ingersoll,Charles H. Ingersoll Dollar Pen Co.,USA,1930,TF,LE

All-American,Conklin sub-brand,,,,LE

The Toledo Fountain Pen Co.,Conklin sub-brand,,,,LE

365,Delta,Italy,Current,CC,LE

Riflessi,Delta,Italy,Current,CC,LE

,Durand and Co.,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

A. W. Faber,Faber-Castell,Germany,,,LE

,J.D. Snow,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

Generation,Mont Blanc,Germany,Current,CC,LE

Hommage a Mozart,Mont Blanc,Germany,Current,CO,LE

Meisterstuck,Mont Blanc,Germany,,,LE

Celluloid Collection,Omas,Italy,Current,PF,LE

Paragon,Omas,Italy,Current,CO,LE

,Simplofiller,USA, OH, Cincinnati,,,LE

,The Akron Fountain Pen Co.,USA, OH, Akron,,,LE

,The Betzler Fountain Pen Co.,USA, OH, Akron,,,LE

Conklin (see also branding Conklin),The Conklin Pen Manufacturing Co.,USA, OH, Toledo,,,LE

Clymax,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

College,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Columbia,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Dexter,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Duplex,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Eureka,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Fountograph,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Imperator,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Imperial,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Jewel,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

MacKinnon,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Paragold,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Perfection,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Red Giant,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Royal,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Self-Inking,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

University,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Victor,The John Holland Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

John Holland,The John Holland Gold Pen Co.,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

Conklin predecessor,The Self Fountain Pen Co.,USA - Toledo,,,LE

,The Weidlich Pen Co.,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

The Pick Pen Co.,The Weidlich Pen Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

The Star Pen Co.,The Weidlich Pen Co. sub-brand,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

Vendex,Vendex,NL,1950-1960,,LE

Carene,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Edson,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Expert 2000,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Expert II,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Hemisphere,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

L'Etalon,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Liason,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Phileas,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

Preface,Waterman Paris,France,Current,CC,LE

,Weidlich and Simpson,USA, OH, Cincinnati,,,LE

 

 

The alphabetical order is in the 'Branding' field so maybe the following version is easier to read

 

BRANDING,NAME,COUNTRY,DATE,STYLE,CONTRIB

A. Morton,A. Morton,USA,,,LE

A.A. Waterman,Resevo,USA - Chicago,1903,TF,LE

Acme,Acme,USA,Current,CC,LE

Aikin Lambert,Alco,USA,,,LE

Ajax,Ajax,USA,1920-1930,LF,LE

Akkerman,P.W. Akkerman,NL,ca. 1935-1955,BF,LE

Ambassador,Ambassador,USA,,,LE

Ancora,Capri,Italy,1919-current,CC,LE

Ancora,Paua,Italy,1919-current,BF,LE

Ancora,Tuscany,Italy,1919-current,CC,LE

Ancora,Unica,Italy,1919-current,BF,LE

Arnold,Arnold,USA,,,LE

Artcraft,Artcraft,USA,,,LE

Artus,Artus Ballit,Germany,1942 -1952,PF,LE

Artus,Artus Favorit,Germany,1942 -1952,,LE

Artus,Artus Record,Germany,1942 -1952,,LE

Aurora,88,Italy,1950-current,PF,LE

Aurora,Primavera,Italy,Current,PF,LE

Autocraft,Autocraft,USA,,,LE

Autofiller,Autofiller,USA,1915-1920,TF,LE

Autopoint,Autopoint,USA,,,LE

Betzler and Wilson,,USA - Akron,,,LE

Boston Fountain Pen Co.,Wahl - Eversharp predecessor,USA,1914,LF,LE

Byers & Hayes,Byers & Hayes,USA,1900-1930,ED,LE

Carter Pen Co.,Carter(s),USA, Mass., Boston,1926-1932,,LE

Cartier,Diabolo,France,Current,CC,LE

Cartier,Pasha,France,Current,CC,LE

Cartier,Trinity,France,Current,CC,LE

Charles H. Ingersoll Dollar Pen Co.,Ingersoll,USA,1930,TF,LE

Conklin sub-brand,All-American,,,,LE

Conklin sub-brand,The Toledo Fountain Pen Co.,,,,LE

Delta,365,Italy,Current,CC,LE

Delta,Riflessi,Italy,Current,CC,LE

Durand and Co.,,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

Faber-Castell,A. W. Faber,Germany,,,LE

J.D. Snow,,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

Mont Blanc,Generation,Germany,Current,CC,LE

Mont Blanc,Hommage a Mozart,Germany,Current,CO,LE

Mont Blanc,Meisterstuck,Germany,,,LE

Omas,Celluloid Collection,Italy,Current,PF,LE

Omas,Paragon,Italy,Current,CO,LE

Simplofiller,,USA, OH, Cincinnati,,,LE

The Akron Fountain Pen Co.,,USA, OH, Akron,,,LE

The Betzler Fountain Pen Co.,,USA, OH, Akron,,,LE

The Conklin Pen Manufacturing Co.,Conklin (see also branding Conklin),USA, OH, Toledo,,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Clymax,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,College,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Columbia,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Dexter,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Duplex,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Eureka,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Fountograph,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Imperator,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Imperial,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Jewel,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,MacKinnon,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Paragold,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Perfection,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Red Giant,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Royal,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Self-Inking,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,University,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Co. sub-brand,Victor,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The John Holland Gold Pen Co.,John Holland,USA - Cincinatti,1880-1920,,LE

The Self Fountain Pen Co.,Conklin predecessor,USA - Toledo,,,LE

The Weidlich Pen Co.,,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

The Weidlich Pen Co. sub-brand,The Pick Pen Co.,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

The Weidlich Pen Co. sub-brand,The Star Pen Co.,USA - Cincinatti,,,LE

Vendex,Vendex,NL,1950-1960,,LE

Waterman Paris,Carene,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Edson,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Expert 2000,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Expert II,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Hemisphere,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,L'Etalon,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Liason,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Phileas,France,Current,CC,LE

Waterman Paris,Preface,France,Current,CC,LE

Weidlich and Simpson,,USA, OH, Cincinnati,,,LE

 

[Gerry]

Settimo Torinese, Italy ("51" clone brand)

Here are a couple of corrections, and a suggestion.

 

#970 , Settimo Torinese is the name of a city in Italy just outside Torino, not the name of a single pen company. It used to be the center of penmaking in Italy, and there were many pen companies located in the city, even to the extent of calling itself, "the international capital of the pen". There's even a book about the history of penmaking in that city.

 

Also, #390 , Fullhalter is simply the German word for "fountain holder", just as Fullfeder is German for "fountain pen". I don't think it's the exclusive name of a pen company. ;~)

 

And one thing that drives me crazy about the list is that a great many of the entries are alphabetized by given name, or by given-name initials instead of by the surname, and also by the word "The" instead of by the actual name. This defeats the whole purpose of alphabetization as it was first conceived in the Middle Ages. ;~)

 

George Kovalenko.

 

:ph34r:

Max provided a picture of the pen box with the name inscribed...

 

Don't know whether that should be filed as Faun-Fullhalter or Fullhalter... any ideas?

 

Gerry

[Gerry]

Thanks for all the effort you've put into working on the database Lex. I'm sure we'll all appreciate the new form when we get through the teething problems.

 

If it's easier, I'd suggest we exchange the databases by email - my attempt to use csv online was to allow simple importation into excel, but was insufficient in some cases, simce the comment field often contained commas not used as delimiters.

 

Finally, Max provided some comments (also suggesting that the effort to categorize by both company name and model was going to be problematic - as we have noted. The only advantage was if it were used as an index - where the user may not know the name was a model, brand or company.

 

In any case, I'd like to forward you his email and list comments to see whether they are applicable.

 

Please PM me your email address, and I'll send you his stuff, and my excel spreadsheet...

 

Regards

 

Gerry

[Lexaf]

25-11-2006

 

:meow: Hello,

 

Thanks Gerri for your reply. Glad to hear you appreciate my work.

 

I'll PM the export of the complete content of the datalist as it is now in my application. It will be more than one version:

1) The list in its original model: (NAME,BRANDING,COUNTRY,DATE,STYLE,CONTRIB)

2) The list in the 'new' order: (BRANDING,NAME,COUNTRY,DATE,STYLE,CONTRIB)

3) The list in my own 'enhanced' version, where I added some extra fields like

'MUTECODE' (only 2 parameters: 'upd'or'new')

'MUTEDATE' (date of the record mutation)

'PICTURE' (graphic field, can contain .jpg image of the specific pen recorded)

'OWNER' (only used when pen is my own of someone I know peronally)

'DESCRIP' (a memo field with relevant info about pen or manufacturer)

'REF' (links to relevant source on website or book publication)

'REMARK' (mainly used for 'see' or 'see also' cross-reference to other records)

 

(I'll zip the different files into one archive.zip; hope you can handle that)

 

Look at the screen shot for the program presentation; entry screen.

 

I'm looking forward to the mails with Max'comments and your excel sheet.

 

Your remark on using commas in memo/comment fields is interesting: the use of a comma delimited export model for the data to be able to interchange data between users implicates that NO COMMAS MAY BE USED in every other case than as a delimiter! A mistake is easily made! E.g. the last record in my last posting:

Weidlich and Simpson,,USA, OH, Cincinnati,,,LE

(WRONG! USA, OH, Cincinatty.... I changed that in USA - Cincinatty).

There will still be a problem with the comma's in the 'DESCRIPT' memo field I use, as I often copy&paste complete text blocks from articles I find on the web. For instance the manufacturer descriptions I found on the excellent manufacturers list on http://www.pensandwatches.com/Penprofiles.htm by Bruce and Ruth Speary.

 

A solution could be to use another character for the delimiter e.g.: '*'. For myself that will not be a problem because my program can export with every delimiter character i choose, but I do not know if everyone has that possibility with the application he or she will use. I'm thinking about a more sophisticated solution for this.

 

Have a nice weekend!

 

Regards from Rijswijk, The Netherlands (or Holland as most people say),

Lex

 

[Lexaf]

:meow:

 

yet another screenshot:

 

note the picture of the pens is not a 'real' photo, but a scan.

Using a flatbed scanner (in this case a Canoscan D646U) is a very easy and efficient way of recording pictures of litthe artifacts like pens. I sometimes make photo's of my pens (mostly when I want to sell) and if one is interested I could post some, but there is another topic on that subject I found out so I will send some pics to that topic in near future..

 

Regards, Lexaf

[Lexaf]

Max provided a picture of the pen box with the name inscribed...

 

Don't know whether that should be filed as Faun-Fullhalter or Fullhalter... any ideas?

 

Gerry

 

:bunny1: Hi!

 

Füllhalter is just the German word for fountain pen.

As far as I can see on the picture the brand(?) name is "Faun".

So it should be filed as Faun.

BTW, I can not find any reference to the name Faun, so I'd wait with adding to the list until more data are available.

Idea: There could be a second list with records that are waiting for more details or need verification. Sort of 'Incomplete & Proposals list.' Conventions could be that at least 2 or 3 parameters are needed in one record and that at least one external and independent references must be found (sort of what they do in genealogical databases).

 

Lex

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

That Charles Ingersoll entry should be dated 1924-1930. I don't think they made it long past 1930 - if anyone has info to the contrary, I would love to hear it.

 

I also think we need to be careful about how we list companies that are taken over by another - I would list them seperately first, then a note about them becoming a sub-brand.

 

Pick Pen Co, for example - I don't know if they were ever a sub-brand of Weidlich, but they started out as an independant company. See this link at Lion and Pen Pick and Weidlich, A bit of confusion

 

John

[Lexaf]

That Charles Ingersoll entry should be dated 1924-1930. I don't think they made it long past 1930 - if anyone has info to the contrary, I would love to hear it.

 

I also think we need to be careful about how we list companies that are taken over by another - I would list them seperately first, then a note about them becoming a sub-brand.

 

Pick Pen Co, for example - I don't know if they were ever a sub-brand of Weidlich, but they started out as an independant company. See this link at Lion and Pen Pick and Weidlich, A bit of confusion

 

John

 

:meow:

 

Thank you, John for your remarks.

 

I just started to work on this list and one of the problems I encounter is the field definition. 'DATE' in this list is most of the time not a date but sometimes only a year indication and sometimes a period indication. And most of the time just

approximately!

Given the fact that not much is to be found about the history of Charles Ingersoll pens I am thankfull that more data will appear as a result of publishing adjustments in the records in the list. It is good to see that with these publications we stimulate each other to do more research on records we find that need correction.

So I believe you are right and I'll change the year 1930 to the period 1924-1930.

 

I also agree with you to be careful about connections between brand names. Funny thing is that in this case my information was based on an article from the same author Rob Astyk on the same site/forum, but from an earlyer date ( look at http://kamakurapens.invisionzone.com/index...aded&show=&st=& , 3rd posting, march,25). In the article you mention (april, 29) he publishes some more details. Anyway, I'll make a separate main entry (in 'BRANDING') for The Pick Pen Company. See below for a screen shot of the data in my data base program.

Problem is that these important details about firm relationships cannot be recorded in the basic form of the list ( the 'NAME' and 'BRANDING' fields) but can only be explained in an extra 'REMARK' field. So it works for me, but not for everyone who works with the 'basic' records.

 

Remains the question: what was actually engraved as a trade mark on the actual Pick pens? Does anyone of you know? Who owns one to show us?

 

Regards,

 

Lex

 

[antoniosz]

Ok, some new data:

 

Model: Durabuilt, Maker: Beaumel, Source: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=130051951673

 

Model: The Aristocrat, Maker: Beaumel, Source: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=280056145936

 

Model: The Rival, Maker: Beaumel, Source: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=6617611225

 

This last adds to John's remark here. In other words that are more than one models named Rival from different makers.

 

Also if you look at the ebay item it is an add that included the Wright Pen Co. from St Louis Missouri

[Lexaf]

05-11-2006

 

:quote:

Ok, some new data:

 

Model: Durabuilt, Maker: Beaumel, Source: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=130051951673

 

Model: The Aristocrat, Maker: Beaumel, Source: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=280056145936

 

Model: The Rival, Maker: Beaumel, Source: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=6617611225

 

This last adds to John's remark here. In other words that are more than one models named Rival from different makers.

 

Also if you look at the ebay item it is an add that included the Wright Pen Co. from St Louis Missouri

:quote:

 

Thanks, Antoniosz, for your new entries.

I added them in my database. see below.

 

I am not sure when I will be able to publish the new entries and mutations as a new upgrade of the list, I think that may not be before the end of January 2007. Besides I need to have some more feedback from Gerry and I am still hoping for more comments on the proposals I did on enhancing the list.

 

 

In 'flat database' format (note I added the asterix as an extra delimiter to prevend mixing up with the 'text commas').

 

*Beaumel*,*see D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.*,**,**,**,*LE*

*D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.*,*Aristocrat*,*US - New York*,*1920*,*LF*,*AZ*

*D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.*,*Durabilt*,*US - New York*,*1920*,*LF*,*AZ*

*D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.*,*Rival*,*US - New York*,*1903*,*ED*,*AZ*

*Wright Pen Co.*,*Wright*,*USA - St. Louis*,*1903*,*ED*,*AZ*

 

 

 

In presentation form, from my own program: (including extra fields)

 

------------------------------------------

 

NAME see D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.

BRANDING Beaumel

COUNTRY

DATE

STYLE

CONTRIB LE

MUTECODE NEW

MUTEDATE 4-12-2006

PICTURE

OWNER

REF

DESCRIPT

REMARK

 

-------------------------------------------

 

NAME Aristocrat

BRANDING D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.

COUNTRY USA - New York

DATE 1920

STYLE LF

CONTRIB AZ

MUTECODE NEW

MUTEDATE 4-12-2006

PICTURE

OWNER

REF E-bay - clila19 (seller)

DESCRIPT Circa 1920's Aristocrat (D.W.

Beaumel & Co) - LF - BCHR - 14KT

Gold flex nib. Ca. 5 1/2" capped.

Barrel imprint: The Aristocrat Mnfd.

and Guaranteed by D.W. Beaumel

and Co. Inc. N.Y.. Imprint on clip

also says Aristocrat.

REMARK

----------------------------------------------------

 

NAME Durabilt

BRANDING D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.

COUNTRY USA - New York

DATE 1920

STYLE LF

CONTRIB AZ

MUTECODE NEW

MUTEDATE 4-12-2006

PICTURE

OWNER

REF E-bay

DESCRIPT This is an oversize fountain pen

that was made in the USA in the

1920s by DW Beaumel of New York.

Beaumel was a pen manufacturer

back into the 1800s who sold pens

up to the 1930s. They were a

manufacturer and a parts supplier.

This is a high quality pen.

Maker: Beaumel

Model: Durabilt

Size: oversize

Color: jade green

Year: 1920s

Country of Origin: USA

Cap Material: plastic

Barrel Material: plastic

Style: flattop

Cap Style: screw on

Trim Material: gold filled

Length with cap on: 5 3/16"

Nib Marking: 14K made in USA

Nib Material: 14K Gold

Nib Flexibility: semi-flex

Nib Width (tip): medium

Imprint: Durabilt DW Beaumel &

Co Inc NY

Imprint location: barrel

Filling system: lever fill

REMARK http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.

dll?ViewItem&item=130051951673

by W-B Pen & Watch

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

NAME Rival

BRANDING D.W. Beaumel & Co. Inc.

COUNTRY USA - New York

DATE 1903

STYLE ED

CONTRIB AZ

MUTECODE NEW

MUTEDATE 4-12-2006

PICTURE

OWNER

REF E-bay - 15rubyjuwels (seller)

DESCRIPT

REMARK Old Advertisement.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

 

NAME Wright

BRANDING Wright Pen Co.

COUNTRY USA - St. Louis

DATE 1903

STYLE ED

CONTRIB AZ

MUTECODE NEW

MUTEDATE 4-12-2006

PICTURE

OWNER

REF E-bay - 15rubyjuwels (seller)

DESCRIPT

REMARK Old Advertisement

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Best regards to you all,

 

Lex

[Gerry]

Lex,

 

You asked a couple questions that I don't remember answering, so here's a shot at addressing them:

 

1.) I recommend to drop the 'fixed' record numbers. They complicate the transfer in to a 'personal' data system and every time a major upgrade of the list is performed, the numbering will change. The main entry for the list should (IMHO) the brand/branding (trade mark) of the pen. When published with the brand in strict alphbetical order the list can be read and conulted in a fairly easys way, even only in print without the use of a data base (telephone book).

 

[i have no problem removing it - it's as easy as me just not including that column in my copy command when posting the list.  Just thought it might have been some use]

 

2.) I noticed there is quite a lot of contamination in the data fields of which i will name two: remarks in fields that should be fixed formatted and brand names used as type names en vise versa. There is a delemma here: should the list be confid to brands only, with a reference to sub brands, or should there be the possibility to reference to every known type or model name of each known brand name (or branding as you call it). I 'd prefer the last. The list will grow huge, but only then it will be of real use as a tool to determin 'found' pens wink.gif.

 

[We should actually discuss this in the thread, getting various inputs as to what is most useful to those who use this list.  It might even work out to be best to allow various levels of depth (nesting) so we could print a fairly complete subset here in the thread, with the more exhaustive list being available but only through file transfer.  We need perhaps a few more ideas as how to accomplish this.]

 

3.) A difficult one: I think it is important that the different record fields have some formatting. That concerns the content (see remark 2) as well as the data formatting (e.g. date: year only? (yyyy) period? (yyyy-yyyy), complete date? (yyyy-mm-dd = european , or mm-dd-yyyy = usa?)

 

[Yes, difficult, since the data is rarely available as a single date.  We could consider an introduction date and a last production date perhaps, but very often even these must be represented by a date range.  Sometimes other presentations are useful too, for example If you have an ad for a pen in a 1908 paper for a pen model - you know that they were made at least in 1908, possibly before.  Even indicating an 'about' date is useful to some - since it will narrow other's search.  Some help may be available in looking at the practice found in genealogical DB's, as they have to face similar uncertainties. I would think that yyyy-yyyy would be best, but allow abt yyyy - abt yyyy as well or perhaps 188x - 190x or something like that.  For specific dates I personally prefer the International system.]

 

4. ) a small practical suggestion, adding to my earlier remark about the missing Style code for cartridge fillers; there also seems to be missing a code for Safety fillers. Would 'SA' do?

 

[Yes, all the proposed additions for expanding filler style codes are acceptable, do we want to consider writing out the filling style in full?]

 

Some questions:

Is it ok to use this tread for my results and findings? [Yes]

How do I get the enhanced versions of the list or the records to you? [Done]

Is there any existing planning publishing new / revised versions? [Yes]

Can you contact me with other fools like me who (want to) work on this list on a more or less regular basis? [i would ask any of those fools.... ummmm - enthusiasts identify themselves in this thread.  We'd be happy to include you in the discussions and to incorporate your ideas in exchange for  assisting with the upkeep]

 

 

Warm regards,

 

Gerry

[Kress]

Waldmann, a great German pen.

 

http://www.waldmannpen.com/

 

Best regards

 

Leo Kress

[Lexaf]

Waldmann, a great German pen.

 

http://www.waldmannpen.com/

 

Best regards

 

Leo Kress

 

:meow:

 

Hello Leo,

 

Thanks for your contribution. I added it to my list. (see below for complete record; the part in blue is ment for the 'short' list, rest is -for the present- for my own data system only).

Question - just to be complete - can you tell me what filling system is used? (cartridge, converter, piston, etc.?) Cannot find that in the specs on their website.

 

Regards,

Lex

 

New record:

*TRADE MARK*,*SUBBRAND OF*,*MODEL*,*COUNTRY*,*PROD YEAR*,*FILL. SYST.*,*CONTRIB.*,*MUTECODE*,*2006-12-08*,*OWNER*,*REF*,*FINISH*,*%DESCRIPT.%*,*%REMARK%*

 

*Waldmann*,**,*several*,*Germany*,*1918-current*,**,*LE*,*NEW*,*2006-12-08*,**,*http://www.waldmannpen.com/*,**,*%%*,*%The company started in 1918 with the production of mechanical pencils. Fountain pens since 1956.%*

 

[Lexaf]

Hello Gerry,

 

Tanks so much for your comments. Reactions: (in green.. )

QUOTE 

 

1.) I recommend to drop the 'fixed' record numbers. They complicate the transfer in to a 'personal' data system and every time a major upgrade of the list is performed, the numbering will change. The main entry for the list should (IMHO) the brand/branding (trade mark) of the pen. When published with the brand in strict alphbetical order the list can be read and conulted in a fairly easys way, even only in print without the use of a data base (telephone book).

 

[i have no problem removing it - it's as easy as me just not including that column in my copy command when posting the list.  Just thought it might have been some use]

OK, solved that problem...

 

2.) I noticed there is quite a lot of contamination in the data fields of which i will name two: remarks in fields that should be fixed formatted and brand names used as type names en vise versa. There is a delemma here: should the list be confid to brands only, with a reference to sub brands, or should there be the possibility to reference to every known type or model name of each known brand name (or branding as you call it). I 'd prefer the last. The list will grow huge, but only then it will be of real use as a tool to determin 'found' pens wink.gif.

 

[We should actually discuss this in the thread, getting various inputs as to what is most useful to those who use this list.  It might even work out to be best to allow various levels of depth (nesting) so we could print a fairly complete subset here in the thread, with the more exhaustive list being available but only through file transfer.  We need perhaps a few more ideas as how to accomplish this.]

As you can see in the example in the reply to Leo Kress, I already worked on that aspect. Further I tried to solve the problem of referencing to either model namer or subbrands by changing the field names (I hope you find that acceptable) and adding a separate field for model (=name or number). This gives the oppotunity to add every reference you like, as deep as you'd want it... Again the list will be huge, wut I think we can work out a system to distribute the list in an other way than just publish it completely in this thread now and then. Maybe the file that contains the data (in a formatted model) can be hosted and made downloadable somewhere?

 

3.) A difficult one: I think it is important that the different record fields have some formatting. That concerns the content (see remark 2) as well as the data formatting (e.g. date: year only? (yyyy) period? (yyyy-yyyy), complete date? (yyyy-mm-dd = european , or mm-dd-yyyy = usa?)

 

[Yes, difficult, since the data is rarely available as a single date.  We could consider an introduction date and a last production date perhaps, but very often even these must be represented by a date range.  Sometimes other presentations are useful too, for example If you have an ad for a pen in a 1908 paper for a pen model - you know that they were made at least in 1908, possibly before.  Even indicating an 'about' date is useful to some - since it will narrow other's search.  Some help may be available in looking at the practice found in genealogical DB's, as they have to face similar uncertainties. I would think that yyyy-yyyy would be best, but allow abt yyyy - abt yyyy as well or perhaps 188x - 190x or something like that.  For specific dates I personally prefer the International system.]

What is the international system? I think YYYY-MM-DD? (seems logical because only this way the date can be treated as an absolute figure on wich you can search with a > (= after)  or <  (= before) or >...< (= between) parameter (boolean) For the production date or period this will not be very usable, because most of the time only a year indication will be relevant. So I suggest: YYYY of year is exact. YYYY-YYYY if period of production is relevant. YYY? (wildcard could be usefull, but ONLY the 4th digit, to indicate thirties,. fourties, etc) Use a '?' because that is the common wildcard in ICT. In case a guess is made two possibilities: '~' (~yyyy) if year is not sure, OR square brackets ([YYYY]); this is the official use in bibliografical systems (ISBD) for non verified data. ( I perfer the ~ (tilde), it's shorter.  

 

4. ) a small practical suggestion, adding to my earlier remark about the missing Style code for cartridge fillers; there also seems to be missing a code for Safety fillers. Would 'SA' do?

 

[Yes, all the proposed additions for expanding filler style codes are acceptable, do we want to consider writing out the filling style in full?]

No I think a coded lis as we use it now will do. As long as additions will be published consequently. Also I think that every time a new code is accepete, the complete list of filling systems must be published again. Same for the CONTRIB codes. Note I changed the field name here too: FILL_SYST. As I found that was the only use for the original name 'STYLE' In the 'extra' fields i introduced the fields 'FINISH', 'DESCRIPT' and 'REMARK', but these are so called 'memo'fields and can contaim far more text than a normal formatted field will in the basic datamodel.

 

Some questions:

Is it ok to use this tread for my results and findings?

[Yes]

Good!

 

How do I get the enhanced versions of the list or the records to you? [Done]

[is there any existing planning publishing new / revised versions? '>[Yes]

COLOR=green]So you received them? OK! Can you read them? I think we should work out a system for updating, synchronising and publishing...

 

Can you contact me with other fools like me who (want to) work on this list on a more or less regular basis?

[i would ask any of those fools.... ummmm - enthusiasts identify themselves in this thread.  We'd be happy to include you in the discussions and to incorporate your ideas in exchange for  assisting with the upkeep]

Thanks, Gerry, I'm honoured

 

[/color]

 

I'll mail you a fresh update in the new datamodel one of these days. Workng out and normalizing the Conway Steward associated brands......, pffff.....

 

 

 

That's it for today... sorry for the typo's,

I't s 0.41 AM local time, Im going to sleep.... :)9

 

Best regards,

Lex

 

[pvdiamon]

Gerry, in your first list, #689 is Montefiore. I have a Montefiore pen, and can't find a converter to fit. Any thoughts on who knows about these pens? My query on this list about it did not get any replies.

 

thanks.

 

John

[Gerry]

Personally I know little about those pens. I see that KS - Kissing entered the name, perhaps he knows more about it. Try PM'ing Kissing to see if he knows.

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[georges zaslavsky]

The mentmore pen company which did produce some very fine pens, here is an example for sale http://www.trocadero.com/rosenah/items/569...69238store.html

 

regards

 

georges

[Lexaf]

:meow:

Hello Georges,

 

Thanks for the Mentmore reference.

The mentmore pen company which did produce some very fine pens, here is an example for sale http://www.trocadero.com/rosenah/items/569...69238store.html

I added the entry in the data list. See below. (blue is short list)

 

Best regards, Lex

 

 

TRADE_MARK Mentmore

SUB_BR_OF

MODEL Autoflow

COUNTRY UK

PROD_YEAR 1935

FILL_SYST BF

CONTRIB LE

 

MUTECODE NEW

MUTEDAT 2007-01-02

OWNER

REF Lambrou, Fountain Pens of the World, 2nd ed. 1998, p. 148 and http://www.trocadero.com/rosenah/items/569...69238store.html

DESCRIPT Produced by the Mentmore Manufacturing Company these well made sturdy Mentmore pens were a workhorse among writing instruments and weathered the test of time. Probably made during the mid 1930s period although having survived the blitz of the World War several model types of the Mentmore auto flow series were soon again in production by the late 1940s. Ink filling is by button method accessed by unscrewing the section at the end of the pens barrel. 14 carat gold Mentmore medium point size nib. Gold plated ball end design pocket clip having the Mentmore emblem engraved in outline on it.

REMARK Different sub-brands were made. See also: Platignum. Other model names were: Senior, Reliance and Diploma.

PICTURE

FINISH

Edited January 2, 2007 by Lexaf

[georges zaslavsky]

nice job thank you Lexaf

[Lexaf]

:meow:

 

Hi All,

 

Anyone out there?

 

Found this on e-bay, while looking for references to the 'Avon' brand. :

The sellers text is:

Quote:

This early 1950's vintage black ROSA 'CP' fountain pen has two changebale gold plated nibs that screw into the pen section. This model is a new never used original stock and comes with a fine point and medium point nib. The extra nib is stored in the pen barrel. The pen has the original never used rubber ink sac which is still good and useable after 50 years! The fountain pen was manufactured by Rosa Pen Company located in Lyndhurst, New Jersey in 1951. (Rosa manufactured pens and pen parts in the 1920's for many fountain pen companieis including Camel, Swan Mabie-Todd, Meader, Hartline and private labeled for Avon and Hickock) Included with this pen is a bottle of blue fountain pen ink recommended for use with vintage pens. A great gift for any collector or fountain pen lover. This pen will write with a smooth feather touch. Don't let this unused origianl get away!!

Unquote

(sellers picture of the pen below)

 

Can anyone verify these data? More info about AVON?

 

Hope to hear from you!

 

Lex

 

I was not able to copy a working link to the ebay page, so I edited it it out.

Look for item no. : 6631129577

Edited January 3, 2007 by Lexaf