Pens for mathematics

[mathmarc]

(FYI: The Lamy is now utilized exclusively with red ink for grading and editing papers).

 

Perfect. I find I need a finer point for grading than for other kinds of work -- all that marking in margins and between lines.

 

And yes, it has to be red for that purpose. Blood on the tracks and all that. Skrip red is my personal favorite.

 

 

Well, if you need a fine point, the lamy may be too broad. I would consider a VP or Falcon then.

I use the Abraxas bright red. NOt sure the name of it though.

[el3ssar]

I'm a mathematician too, and I use a Lamy Safari with a F nib and a "dry" black ink. Since I'm using some nice Clairefontaine paper, it get the job done, does not feather and gives me a fine line

 

 

A couple of weeks ago, I've tried a VP in a pen shop : so niiiiice ! The pen fit my hand perfectly and writes a very fine line smoothly. I may get one soon !

Edited February 9, 2009 by el3ssar

[agchristie]

im doing my masters in physics and tried out lots of different pens and was using a 1Euro cheap FP till I got myself a Pelikan m150 and put in an extrafine nib from the old pelikan m100 (i only use tiny pens nowadays), together with a blueblack ink from parker or pelikan which works very well with formulas and anything else and dries fast especially as I have a very small handwriting and am lefthanded. I havent yet used a FP for grading papers (just the red university ballpoint) , but am just trying out several different red inks. i have just ordered a pilot petit with red ink as I didnt want to have an expensive pen for grading in case it gets stolen or lost and will see how that works out. Would love a Vanishing Point but its just a bit out of my price range at the moment. Next thing I need is a travelling inkwell as I travel a lot and as my office at university isnt really safe from knocking around, i mean i think it would break or be stolen easily.

[someonesdad]

This topic brings a nostalgic tear to my eye... Back when I was a student (when dinosaurs roamed the earth, as my daughter is prone to say), I bought a Sheaffer pen in the college bookstore. I don't remember the model, but it was plastic and it cost around $15. Boy, I loved that pen and put many miles on it. I found an ideal binder paper at a local office supply store for $5 per ream (that was pretty expensive paper in the late 60's). It took fountain pen beautifully, had a good weight, nicely rounded corners, and closely-spaced lines. I used this pen and paper for notes and all my calculations.

 

The fountain pen and ink led to one "learning how to do a calculation", by which is meant the stick-to-it-iveness to finish and being methodical and careful, as writing down a single equation in a calculation could take multiple pages of closely-spaced writing. They weren't difficult calculations, just long and boring. The hot topic at the time was finding the infinitesimal Lie symmetry groups of the various differential equations of popular physics problems. As an undergrad, I had chosen a problem on a final exam for one of my classes to find the symmetry group of the Hamilton-Jacobi equation for the harmonic oscillator. After handing it in, the teacher pointed out it was a research problem.

 

I did around 1000 pages of calculations with that pen for my thesis. A decade or two later, a former teacher chuckled over all that handwork and said that the computer algebra systems available meant that the stuff we worked on could be assigned as a semester project to an undergrad. But computer algebra systems didn't exist at the time, so everyone did this stuff by hand. I was the only one in the physics department that used a fountain pen.

 

I finally lost that pen and it broke my heart. I bought some Sheaffer Targas, but they just weren't the same. Now I use some cheap Hero pens (332 and 616 models) and they would be good replacements for that Sheaffer.

[innoby]

Thanks man! I'm in the middle of working on my undergrad degree in Mathematics, and I've been dying to see other math people's thoughts on fountain pens. I usually go to my EF Vista. I've actually narrowed the nib a little more (I spent about half an hour on it with a bit of super fine sandpaper to get it smoothed out and smaller. The end result is that the pen is a bit more flexible and smooth like butter.)

 

Quick question:

 

What notebook do you use? I'm ordering a stack of Black n' Red notebooks I want to try for this semester. I really wish I could find a good notebook with graphing lines, but I haven't been able to find one that will work well.

 

 

Have you tried moleskine? they make some good notebooks, I've use an Ohto FINE in one and had little if no smearing problems with that paper, the lines stay crisp and the ink dries quickly, the smooth texture of the paper is also great. And I'm left handed, which makes not smearing even that much more impressive. but since I did have flow issues and got rid of said pen, I have been writing with (gasp!) ballpoints and gel ink pens on these note books, and still they are enjoyable to write in.

[yachtsilverswan]

Evening Marc -

 

I just read over your review a second time, first post to last, partly because I so enjoy seeing math.

 

I'm sure you've heard this distillation of Truth in Science:

 

Chemistry is Truth to Biologists;

Physics is Truth to Chemists;

But Math is Truth to All.

 

Seeing handwritten equations always reminds me of math's complete intolerance for singular error. In text, if the loop in a cursive "e" is closed, so that it resembles an undotted "i", well context most often guides the reader to the quick and correct interpretation of meaning. But in a complex equation, one misinterpreted symbol or number means the entire equation is 100% wrong because it leads to a 100% wrong calculation. Math is either correct; or it is not. I like that. I like that a lot.

 

Your Namiki Falcon produces the most clearly legible, most clearly resolvable equations. But even the Falcon fills in most of your exponents and superscripts.

 

For math and science, there has always been a trade-off between smoothness of use and clarity of result for Fine, XF, and XXF nibs. Many with smaller handwriting need progressively finer nibs to create reliably legible equations and numbers. But as nib tips become finer and finer, they begin to feel scratchy with use, and the joy of the smooth flow of a flountain pen over paper is lost.

 

I think you should consider one of the newly rediscovered Waverley nibs in XXF. Waverly was a nib style used by Sheaffer in the 1930s to add smoothness to very very fine nibs for accountants. The nib has a little upturned snub (not stub) so that the paper contacts the ventral underside of the nib tip rather than the bottom. Richard Binder has recently begun offering this newly rediscovered nib style, and I understand the difference is quite striking. www.richardspens.com under Specialty Nibs - click on Waverly for a pop-up explanation. (no affiliation - just a fan)

 

With the new addition of the Vanishing Point to your stable (congrats again), you have the opportunity to try different nibs in a more cost-effective manner, because nib units can be purchased and customized separately from the pen housing - and without the wait for customizing your existing nibs. I think the Waverly Nib may give you the combination of smoothness and fine resolvability you like.

 

For the math-free zone of letters and text, the traditional advice on nib width selection is to choose a line width that approximates 1/5th the average height of your miniscules (a,c,e,m,n,o,r,s,u,v,w,x). Write out the alphabet in your usual size handwriting, and then measure in millimeters the height of each miniscule. Average them, and divide by 5 to get an approximation of the width in mm of the line width that should produce classically proportionate handwriting. If you prefer a bolder look to your handwriting, then add 0.2 mm to the calculation. If you like a more refined look, then subtract 0.2 mm. Remember that these calculations are for line width, not for nib width. Because of shaping, different nibs of the same horizontal diameter can lay down lines of varying widths. So when specifying a new nib, it is always better to ask for the line width you want, not the nib width. Crafting the final result is the task of the Nibmeister.

 

If you decide to try the Stub Italic (smoother) or the Cursive Italic (better line width variation), I hope you'll report your experience. I enjoy your writing.

Edited February 14, 2009 by yachtsilverswan

[mathmarc]

Thanks man! I'm in the middle of working on my undergrad degree in Mathematics, and I've been dying to see other math people's thoughts on fountain pens. I usually go to my EF Vista. I've actually narrowed the nib a little more (I spent about half an hour on it with a bit of super fine sandpaper to get it smoothed out and smaller. The end result is that the pen is a bit more flexible and smooth like butter.)

 

Quick question:

 

What notebook do you use? I'm ordering a stack of Black n' Red notebooks I want to try for this semester. I really wish I could find a good notebook with graphing lines, but I haven't been able to find one that will work well.

 

 

Have you tried moleskine? they make some good notebooks, I've use an Ohto FINE in one and had little if no smearing problems with that paper, the lines stay crisp and the ink dries quickly, the smooth texture of the paper is also great. And I'm left handed, which makes not smearing even that much more impressive. but since I did have flow issues and got rid of said pen, I have been writing with (gasp!) ballpoints and gel ink pens on these note books, and still they are enjoyable to write in.

 

 

I tend to use apica or Tsubame notebooks. Most often though, I like plain old paper and a folder. I am trying to organize

a review of the paper I use.

 

 

marc

[dashreeve]

I am a bit suprised that no one uses the pilot prera for their mathematical needs. I teach under a document camera 75% of the time. I finally tried a Prera as the Lamys I have are EF and the line is not fine enough. When the Prera arrived I inked it and finally had a fine point that actually wrote like what I would consider a fine point to be. I can still use the back of the nib if I need to get "superfine", but I usually don't need to. I still use the Lamys daily as well, but when I need some detail, subscripts, powers to powers, and the like, the Prera is the best. It's very small and lightweight (which is my preference) and they are inexpensive. I match the ink to the body of the pen (Blue, Black, and vivid pink. I also have a Van Gogh midi F that is very fine and dry - good for some thing. I too have the MB Racing Green and love it. It's in my Vista and Van Gogh now.

 

After reading your thread, I am going to get a Namiki fountain - I'm assuming that the Japanese fine points will all be as fine (or finer) than the Prera. Great thread for the math people - thanks!!

[karynv]

I am a bit suprised that no one uses the pilot prera for their mathematical needs. I teach under a document camera 75% of the time. ...

 

I use the Pilot Prera (pink and light blue), but my teaching medium is a SMARTboard. Everything has to be typed to prepare, and writing on it is a little like using a big fat marker. I do like it, but it has to be the antithesis of fine-point fountain pen math!

[Louis Chen]

I've just got my XXXF needlepoint from Mr. Binder and it's a very nice nib, but I didn't know it would be so fine. It even writes smaller than my 0.5 mm pencils

 

It's perfect for math though, I just have to get used to it, because even with a little pressure the nib becomes scratchy and I don't want to ruin a such fine nib

 

I will certainly buy from Mr. Binder again in the future

[Ausrutscher der Feder]

Mathemagician,

 

Thank you very much for the review! I am new to fountain pens and based on your advice as well as the other posts in this thread I rushed to my local store and purchased a Lamy Safari medium. I liked the fine tip and it is certain to be my next purchase but the medium wrote so gracefully for such an inexpensive pen! Thank you again for the fantastic writeup.

[Ausrutscher der Feder]

I've been using the Lamy Safari all day at work and love it. Using the back of the nib I am able to write small when I need to make a comment between lines of text or show a quick calculation in the margins. So I retract my prior statement about eventually buying a fine tip Safari. I will instead buy an additional medium for red ink.

[Warriah]

Hello colleagues!

 

When I was in college, I used a Cross Century F for 4 years of BSc maths and an MSc. When I lost that it was a Cross Townsend F for the PhD. Now when I write equations/algebra my favorite is a M200 with a binderised stub 0.7 <img src="https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cloud9.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cloud9.gif" /> . I think that to get the proper equation look (think TeX) you cannot beat an italics nib - when equations are typeset almost all letters (or at least the variables and functions) are italics.

It sounds very interesting.

 

I see that Binder now only offer 0.6mm or 0.8mm stub italic (I don't know why since even I remember that he was offering a 0.7mm too). Therefore, which of these nibs I should take into account on your opinion?

 

How's going with your nib right now? Is it a steel or a golden one?

Thank you

[opus7600]

I see that Binder now only offer 0.6mm or 0.8mm stub italic (I don't know why since even I remember that he was offering a 0.7mm too). Therefore, which of these nibs I should take into account on your opinion?

 

Huh. Well, first, are you sure you weren't thinking of the cursive italics? Those definitely come in 0.7.

 

Second, it's hard to imagine he's not *capable* of making one, if it were requested. Have you tried emailing him to check?

[dfatouros]

Hello colleagues!

 

When I was in college, I used a Cross Century F for 4 years of BSc maths and an MSc. When I lost that it was a Cross Townsend F for the PhD. Now when I write equations/algebra my favorite is a M200 with a binderised stub 0.7 <img src="https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cloud9.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cloud9.gif" /> . I think that to get the proper equation look (think TeX) you cannot beat an italics nib - when equations are typeset almost all letters (or at least the variables and functions) are italics.

It sounds very interesting.

 

I see that Binder now only offer 0.6mm or 0.8mm stub italic (I don't know why since even I remember that he was offering a 0.7mm too). Therefore, which of these nibs I should take into account on your opinion?

 

How's going with your nib right now? Is it a steel or a golden one?

Thank you

 

A citation, a citation! and on FPN, which is peer-reviewed.

 

My nib is getting smoother, particularly since I switched to the HP32# paper (HP colour laser paper 120gsm for us europenas). It is two tone gold from the M400 range, married to a M200 body. As far as I can tell, a gold ib does not feel any different to a steel one, other things being equal. The other things of course are flexibility and wetness. There are flexible steel nibs, and Pelikan nibs in particular are springier than most. For me the choice was aesthetic.

 

As to which size nib you should go for: a previous poster gave some good advice, but it is really difficult to measure down to 10ths of a mm. It really depends on whether you write big or small - and whether you are prepared to put up with a little more scratchiness, and less line variation for a little smaller size. My factory Lamy 1.1 italic nib is smoother than my Binder stub, but I find it too wide for writing notes as it creates a blob when I write "a" or "o" at speed - I use it for headings and Xmas cards though. The binder 0.7mm though sees regular service including for note taking. My non-stub nibs are all Fine.

 

Richard Binder may well be offering a 0.7mm, or he will be able to make it on request - just ask! Good luck, both with the nib and the maths.

[Warriah]

A citation, a citation! and on FPN, which is peer-reviewed.

AHAHAHAHAH, this killed me..

+1 to your h-index!!

 

 

My nib is getting smoother, particularly since I switched to the HP32# paper (HP colour laser paper 120gsm for us europenas). It is two tone gold from the M400 range, married to a M200 body. As far as I can tell, a gold ib does not feel any different to a steel one, other things being equal. The other things of course are flexibility and wetness. There are flexible steel nibs, and Pelikan nibs in particular are springier than most. For me the choice was aesthetic.

 

As to which size nib you should go for: a previous poster gave some good advice, but it is really difficult to measure down to 10ths of a mm. It really depends on whether you write big or small - and whether you are prepared to put up with a little more scratchiness, and less line variation for a little smaller size. My factory Lamy 1.1 italic nib is smoother than my Binder stub, but I find it too wide for writing notes as it creates a blob when I write "a" or "o" at speed - I use it for headings and Xmas cards though. The binder 0.7mm though sees regular service including for note taking. My non-stub nibs are all Fine.

 

Richard Binder may well be offering a 0.7mm, or he will be able to make it on request - just ask! Good luck, both with the nib and the maths.

Many, many thanks for the advices, I'll try for a 0.8mm and if it is out-of-sale I'll go for a 0.6mm. I love the grip but not at the cost of more scratchiness.

 

Now I'm going with a Pelikan 215 F and it's really OK (perfectly wet and smooth but although lines very defined even for subscripts), but a LaTeX italic line variation would be simply astonishing.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Warriah

[stefanv]

... it is really difficult to measure down to 10ths of a mm

 

Actually, it's quite easy if you have access to a scanner. Scan a sample of your writing at a very high resolution, such as 600dpi (24 dots/mm) or 1200dpi (47 dots/mm), and then look at the magnified image in your favourite image editing program.

[Warriah]

... it is really difficult to measure down to 10ths of a mm

 

Actually, it's quite easy if you have access to a scanner. Scan a sample of your writing at a very high resolution, such as 600dpi (24 dots/mm) or 1200dpi (47 dots/mm), and then look at the magnified image in your favourite image editing program.

I think he refers to eye-measurement..

Edited December 30, 2010 by Warriah

[Warriah]

Huh. Well, first, are you sure you weren't thinking of the cursive italics? Those definitely come in 0.7.

 

Second, it's hard to imagine he's not *capable* of making one, if it were requested. Have you tried emailing him to check?

 

 

Richard Binder may well be offering a 0.7mm, or he will be able to make it on request - just ask! Good luck, both with the nib and the maths.

I emailed him and he responded to me as it follows (I make a piece of the reply public since it could be useful for other users):

 

We've never offered a 0.7 mm stub; we've always had 0.6 or 0.8. But I

don't that a nib that broad would be useful for writing small

superscripts subscripts. The idea of trying to read complex integrals

or series notation that have been written with a stub scares me. Most

of the mathematicians to whom we sell nibs choose XX or XXF round nibs

for legibility when writing mathematical expressions. I think that you

should take some time looking at our writing samples:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/?info=exemplaria

 

[...]

 

However I'm still persuaded to get a 0.6mm stub: if it is worse than my Pelikan Fine nib (thus a 0.5mm one, isn't?) in writing maths, I'll use for all the other kind of writings I need.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Warriah

[beerandmathematics]

Yo!

Thanks for your insights mathemagician(s).

I been using FPs for about a year now--

all Lamy Safari's due to my poor graduate student budget.

I use EF on all but one of my Safari's and rarely use the F nib,

as the line it lays is just to broad for me.

 

I love my Lamys, but I've been wanting to buy

a more expensive pen recently.

I really want to buy a Japanese pen.

For example, I've been staring at a Pilot Prera.

But, not too expensive. Max 80$.

 

This pen would be exclusively for mathematics.

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance!!!