Handwriting improvement

[katim]

@ patrickfp

 

You don't say what the interval was between the two samples you show, but there's a distinct improvement in the second sample, which is a very neat, attractive italic script. You have good control and the letters are clear and well-spaced. The interval between the words is perhaps larger than 'regulation' - not that there is any regulation, of course! - but it could be closed up a little more.

 

I like the 'hooked' ascenders, which are quite a feature in italic, but you might find you can write it more quickly without the hooks. The plainer version is still very recognisably italic and I find that the extra speed makes it a bit more viable for day-to-day use.

 

All in all you are making excellent progress - keep it up and keep posting the improvements!

[patrickfp]

  On 1/23/2011 at 10:32 AM, katim said:

@ patrickfp

 

You don't say what the interval was between the two samples you show, but there's a distinct improvement in the second sample, which is a very neat, attractive italic script. You have good control and the letters are clear and well-spaced. The interval between the words is perhaps larger than 'regulation' - not that there is any regulation, of course! - but it could be closed up a little more.

 

I like the 'hooked' ascenders, which are quite a feature in italic, but you might find you can write it more quickly without the hooks. The plainer version is still very recognisably italic and I find that the extra speed makes it a bit more viable for day-to-day use.

 

All in all you are making excellent progress - keep it up and keep posting the improvements!

 

Thanks Katim. The first example was written in May 2010, when I just started working on italic handwriting. The second sample was written yesterday just prior to posting. I think I started to see some progress two to three months later. Like many have said, the progress only came after much much practice. I started reading "Italic handwriting" by Tom Gourdie, and then writing the alphabet over and over again. Then I started to write anything I heard. I would sit in the kitchen while my daughter and my wife would watch TV. I would write anything I was hearing on TV. At some point, the hardest thing was to join my letters. I thought I would never be able to do it. I had to break some of the habits I acquired while writing my version of cursive. But with a lot of effort, things started to fall into place.

 

I like the hooked ascenders too. I think that's obvious in my samples. I am finding it hard to not doing it. Old habits die hard I guess. That said, I don't use italic when I need to write really fast like taking lecture notes. I have not acquired a very high speed yet. Maybe one day. One thing was clear in my mind when I embarked on this journey (to fix handwriting): patience is the key. My handwriting was not bad to begin with, but it was not the greatest either.

 

One thing I really like on this forum is that the members are not here to brag aout their handwriting (maybe some do, but it's not obvious :-). Members here are very supportive, and helpful.

 

Now, if I can only convince my wife to invest time in fixing her handwriting! Her handwriting is quite bad, but that's because she hold her pen very tight and her hand/arm does not move freely. I told her that when she is writing her grocery list, that's a good opportunity to try doing it well. But she keeps saying that she's in a hurry and doesn't have time. She prefers to save one free hour to play on Facebook :-)

Edited January 23, 2011 by patrickfp

[CatBookMom]

  On 1/23/2011 at 1:35 PM, patrickfp said:

  On 1/23/2011 at 10:32 AM, katim said:

@ patrickfp

 

You don't say what the interval was between the two samples you show, but there's a distinct improvement in the second sample, which is a very neat, attractive italic script. You have good control and the letters are clear and well-spaced. The interval between the words is perhaps larger than 'regulation' - not that there is any regulation, of course! - but it could be closed up a little more.

 

I like the 'hooked' ascenders, which are quite a feature in italic, but you might find you can write it more quickly without the hooks. The plainer version is still very recognisably italic and I find that the extra speed makes it a bit more viable for day-to-day use.

 

All in all you are making excellent progress - keep it up and keep posting the improvements!

 

Thanks Katim. The first example was written in May 2010, when I just started working on italic handwriting. The second sample was written yesterday just prior to posting. I think I started to see some progress two to three months later. Like many have said, the progress only came after much much practice. I started reading "Italic handwriting" by Tom Gourdie, and then writing the alphabet over and over again. Then I started to write anything I heard. I would sit in the kitchen while my daughter and my wife would watch TV. I would write anything I was hearing on TV. At some point, the hardest thing was to join my letters. I thought I would never be able to do it. I had to break some of the habits I acquired while writing my version of cursive. But with a lot of effort, things started to fall into place.

 

I like the hooked ascenders too. I think that's obvious in my samples. I am finding it hard to not doing it. Old habits die hard I guess. That said, I don't use italic when I need to write really fast like taking lecture notes. I have not acquired a very high speed yet. Maybe one day. One thing was clear in my mind when I embarked on this journey (to fix handwriting): patience is the key. My handwriting was not bad to begin with, but it was not the greatest either.

 

One thing I really like on this forum is that the members are not here to brag aout their handwriting (maybe some do, but it's not obvious :-). Members here are very supportive, and helpful.

 

Now, if I can only convince my wife to invest time in fixing her handwriting! Her handwriting is quite bad, but that's because she hold her pen very tight and her hand/arm does not move freely. I told her that when she is writing her grocery list, that's a good opportunity to try doing it well. But she keeps saying that she's in a hurry and doesn't have time. She prefers to save one free hour to play on Facebook :-)

 

 

Your italic is so good! I am hoping to learn to write italic, but right now I'm just enjoying the fun of writing with a fountain pen again after many years. Thank you for the suggestion about a source, and for the inspiration.

[patrickfp]

  On 1/23/2011 at 7:53 PM, CatBookMom said:

 

Your italic is so good! I am hoping to learn to write italic, but right now I'm just enjoying the fun of writing with a fountain pen again after many years. Thank you for the suggestion about a source, and for the inspiration.

 

Thanks. There's a list of good books on italic on this forum. If you check www.abebooks.com from time to time, you can get these books for a good price (used). The key to success: perseverance and patience (in my opinion).

 

--

Patrick

[CatBookMom]

  On 1/23/2011 at 8:07 PM, patrickfp said:

  On 1/23/2011 at 7:53 PM, CatBookMom said:

 

Your italic is so good! I am hoping to learn to write italic, but right now I'm just enjoying the fun of writing with a fountain pen again after many years. Thank you for the suggestion about a source, and for the inspiration.

 

Thanks. There's a list of good books on italic on this forum. If you check www.abebooks.com from time to time, you can get these books for a good price (used). The key to success: perseverance and patience (in my opinion).

 

--

Patrick

 

I found the book at alibris for less than $20; seemed like a reasonable price. Do you print your practice paper from the various online sources? So nice that the FPN lists all these so-helpful links.

[patrickfp]

  On 1/24/2011 at 7:58 PM, CatBookMom said:

 

I found the book at alibris for less than $20; seemed like a reasonable price. Do you print your practice paper from the various online sources? So nice that the FPN lists all these so-helpful links.

 

Actually, what I have found is that having no lines at all is more helpful in my case. I still don't always write in a straight line, but I feel less constrained. I used the French rule paper in my sample because I did not want to waste the paper. I bought these before I "discovered" italic. That said, I also tend to write upward. Soon I will need to learn how to add some slant to my italic.

 

Most of my practice has been done on a book on my lap. One day, when I have enough money, I will try a slanted table, but for now a book on my lap works. I think it's because my whole arm can move with ease.

[CatBookMom]

Actually, what I have found is that having no lines at all is more helpful in my case. I still don't always write in a straight line, but I feel less constrained. I used the French rule paper in my sample because I did not want to waste the paper. I bought these before I "discovered" italic. That said, I also tend to write upward. Soon I will need to learn how to add some slant to my italic.

 

Most of my practice has been done on a book on my lap. One day, when I have enough money, I will try a slanted table, but for now a book on my lap works. I think it's because my whole arm can move with ease.

 

 

I bought some French-ruled paper too, found some on sale, and I think it will help me when I start working on italics to get the proportions right. Then yesterday I discovered a number of links in the discussion threads at the top of the Penmanship group that allow you to print off various types of ruled paper onto your computer printer. The recycled paper at Staples has been pretty workable for me, very little blurring (feathering?). I have a rigid desk blotter that I've used for years as a lap desk, and that's working for me as a table-substitute.

[pagama]

  On 7/25/2008 at 1:04 PM, caliken said:

<!--quoteo(post=680465:date=Jul 24 2008, 01:17 PM:name=calliej)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (calliej @ Jul 24 2008, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=680465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what's your handwriting like caliken?

 

I have seen your amazing caligraphy work but not your normal hand..... ?? Do we get to see a shot?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pontificating on the handwriting of others is all very well, but I knew that someday it was going to come back to bite me - and, guess what, the day has come!

 

OK here we go -

<img src="http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Handwriting_edited-4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

 

In your criticism, please be kind to an old man with a fragile ego!

 

caliken

 

Caliken,

 

Because of your sample of writing you have posted, my daughter who is only 12, would love to be able to write like you. You see, the pre-teenage kids love seeing this beautiful writing, because all they know is electronic communications. (email, facebook, twitter etc) And because of the generosity of am Uncle, she has a nice Sheaffer 300 Fountian Pen (which looks alot like a Prelude but the cap is resin) and is dying to use it. (only when she knows how to clean the ink out after months on non use, due to intrests in facebook).

 

Thanks to all who show off their hand writing. There is hope for the future after all

 

Paul

[HDoug]

Five years ago I started trying to improve my handwriting. I've kept a journal the whole time and I was surprised when I did a "before" and "after." These are scans of the same dimensions on the page and are representative of the entries surrounding them (in terms of handwriting quality). The recent example is probably a bit more careful than my usual journal entries which are generally a bit faster.

 

November 26, 2005:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5386261493_3819b62362.jpg

 

December 1, 2010:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5386864012_f0bd3a7283.jpg

 

I am still trying to improve, but it made me realize that I have come a ways. Sometimes it feels like I'm not making any progress, and I think that's a common perception.

 

Doug

Edited January 25, 2011 by HDoug

[CatBookMom]

  On 1/19/2011 at 2:35 AM, Lady Spencerian said:

Pretty, and very legible. We are probably of about the same vintage and I marvel that your 'r' has kept its shape and definition. In my everyday hand mine turned into a vague lump many years ago. I can still produce a properly shaped 'r', but I have to slow down and focus on so doing.

 

 

Sorry, I just realized that I never said "Thank you" for your comments. You are very kind to say it's pretty.

Edited January 25, 2011 by CatBookMom

[katim]

  On 1/25/2011 at 5:57 AM, HDoug said:

Five years ago I started trying to improve my handwriting. I've kept a journal the whole time and I was surprised when I did a "before" and "after." These are scans of the same dimensions on the page and are representative of the entries surrounding them (in terms of handwriting quality). The recent example is probably a bit more careful than my usual journal entries which are generally a bit faster.

 

I am still trying to improve, but it made me realize that I have come a ways. Sometimes it feels like I'm not making any progress, and I think that's a common perception.

 

Doug

 

That's a very impressive improvement and I like the freedom in your current italic hand, which is very attractive. I've been 'journalling' lately and I find it both therapeutic and good practice, not least in trying to improve the speed. I'm not sure whether I can keep it going for as long as you, though - that's an impressive record, too!

[hlyuqi]

Hi,caliken.I am a Senior 3 students form China.I've been practising Copperplate(or Engraver's Script) for about a year.I learn it form IAMPETH ,and I like Baird, W.A.'s Letter for Students best so I practise it again and again.Now I've made some progress.But I still need your help.

My first post on this forum was this:

http://penbbs.com/attachments/month_1007/100727180916b11eaa3c719fc3.jpg

 

and the second:

http://penbbs.com/attachments/month_1008/10080816131af09025db25116e.jpg

 

and now:

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x469/hlyuqi/20110123010.jpg

 

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x469/hlyuqi/20110123007.jpg

 

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x469/hlyuqi/20110123009.jpg

 

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x469/hlyuqi/20110123011.jpg

 

Because my english is not so good,I can only understand a little of the lessons on IAMPETH.I want to konw if there is any books about how to write Copperplate ? If so,how can I buy them?

And now I find my nib can not write smoothly(Sorry I don't konw if I've expressed it correctly,my Grammer is poor..),so I also want to know where can I buy some better nibs and pen holders?

I would appreciate it if you could give me some advice.

Edited January 25, 2011 by hlyuqi

[caliken]

  On 1/25/2011 at 9:22 AM, hlyuqi said:

I want to konw if there is any books about how to write Copperplate ? If so,how can I buy them?

And now I find my nib can not write smoothly(Sorry I don't konw if I've expressed it correctly,my Grammer is poor..),so I also want to know where can I buy some better nibs and pen holders?

I would appreciate it if you could give me some advice.

 

I buy most of my supplies from www.blotspens.co.uk and www.scribblers.co.uk in England, or from www.paperinkarts.com and www.johnnealbooks.com in the United States.

 

I bought a few excellent wooden oblique penholders and nibs from Paper Ink Arts. I mostly use Gillot 303, Leonardt Principal EF, or Hunt 101 nibs with Higgins Eternal black ink.

 

"Mastering Copperplate" by Eleanor Winters is probably the best book currently available, but my favourite book is still "Copperplate Calligraphy" by Dick Jackson. It's been out of print for some time but you can still occasionally find a copy on eBay. "The Universal Penman" by George Bickham shows the ideal Copperplate forms and no one with an interest in this style of script, should be without it.

 

If it's your intention to write attractively with a flexible nib, then I wouldn't change a thing. Your writing looks great - evenly balanced on the page and very easy to read with full control over the nib.

If however, you want to get as close as possible to the ideal of the Copperplate engravings in "The Universal Penman" then there are a couple of things I'd like to mention. Please remember that you did ask for advice!

I've take the liberty of reproducing one of your letters (on the left) for comparison with an eighteenth century exemplar.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Hitches800.jpg

 

I know that they look a bit hairy due to the huge enlargement!

 

Copperplate shades are as parallel and as straight as possible. In the example on the right, you can see that as soon as the hairline turns into a shaded downstroke, it straightens out immediately and stays parallel down to the foot of the stroke. Similarly the compound downstroke which forms the second part of the letter, is straight for as long as possible.

Also, these downstroke are the same weight as each other. This discipline applies throughout a piece of Copperplate text and is one of the factors which make it so attractive.

Spencerian Script is entirely the opposite and staight, parallel strokes are avoided. In your 'h' the strokes are Spencerian in character with the gradual increase of width in the main downstroke and the curving swell in the compound curve. Also, the shaded strokes are considerably heavier than the examnple on the right - another characteristic of Spencerian. Copperplate is written at a slope of 55 degrees from the horizontal, yours is 48 degrees. Your compound-curve hairline branches off from the main downstroke very low, as does Spencerian.

 

As I said earlier, none of this matters in the slightest if your intention is to write an individual hand with a flexible nib - your writing already looks super as it is!

 

I hope that I haven't seemed too critical and that this is of some help!

 

caliken

Edited January 25, 2011 by caliken

[HDoug]

  On 1/25/2011 at 9:10 AM, katim said:

That's a very impressive improvement and I like the freedom in your current italic hand, which is very attractive. I've been 'journalling' lately and I find it both therapeutic and good practice, not least in trying to improve the speed. I'm not sure whether I can keep it going for as long as you, though - that's an impressive record, too!

 

Thanks katim. The strange thing is sometimes when I look at my handwriting it seems okay, but if I look at it a couple of minutes later it looks awful. It's a really subjective thing, but I'm putting it out in the world because that's the way it looks and that's that. I'm working on consistency, uniformity, and speed (in order to make it as practical as possible).

 

I'm wondering what my handwriting will look like after another five years. I'll post an update then (God willing).

 

Doug

[texaspenman]

All of these success stories really do give someone new to the practice of penmanship, such as myself hope for real improvement. My goal is to one day have similar skill and finesse such as that caliken is capable of. I'd better get practicing!

[caliken]

  On 1/25/2011 at 5:57 AM, HDoug said:

I am still trying to improve, but it made me realize that I have come a ways. Sometimes it feels like I'm not making any progress, and I think that's a common perception.

Doug :

 

In 2002, The Society for Italic Handwriting published a book celebrating fifty years existence. This book demonstrates 107 examples of italic handwriting (as opposed to Formal Italic) by 96 scribes. IMHO your handwriting would certainly not look out of place in this publication. It opitimises all that is good about Italic and is clear, attractive and entirely legible. Your inter-letter and inter-line spacing and your ability to write in a straight line, seem effortless.

As you say, it is subjective and we all tend to be our sternest critics but your "before" and "after" examples are most impressive and will be very encouraging to many who read this forum and wish to improve their handwriting. As I've said in the past, I'm happy enough with my formal italic but my italic handwriting leaves a lot to be desired. Your example, and that of a few others here, make me determined to keep working at it! Thanks for posting.

 

caliken

[Bronze]

- HDoug, very nice italic hand!

 

Approximately, what is the x height?

[HDoug]

caliken, thanks for the encouragement. I blush!

 

  On 1/26/2011 at 8:06 AM, Bronze said:

Approximately, what is the x height?

 

The "a" in "dance" (in the second example) is 1.5mm as far as I can tell.

 

Doug

 

Edit: I was using the wrong side of the ruler! It's actually a full 2mm.

Edited January 26, 2011 by HDoug

[Bronze]

  On 1/26/2011 at 9:38 AM, HDoug said:

caliken, thanks for the encouragement. I blush!

 

  On 1/26/2011 at 8:06 AM, Bronze said:

Approximately, what is the x height?

 

The "a" in "dance" (in the second example) is 1.5mm as far as I can tell.

 

Doug

 

- Thank you. That is very small. Great to see the "before and after" shots. Good inspiration for someone who just started out with italic.

[patrickfp]

  On 1/24/2011 at 11:33 PM, CatBookMom said:

I bought some French-ruled paper too, found some on sale, and I think it will help me when I start working on italics to get the proportions right. Then yesterday I discovered a number of links in the discussion threads at the top of the Penmanship group that allow you to print off various types of ruled paper onto your computer printer. The recycled paper at Staples has been pretty workable for me, very little blurring (feathering?). I have a rigid desk blotter that I've used for years as a lap desk, and that's working for me as a table-substitute.

 

I can feel some strong desire to master italic. I had the same feeling.

 

 

  On 1/25/2011 at 1:40 AM, pagama said:

There is hope for the future after all Paul

 

I am glad that there is still hope. I am hoping that my daughter will feel the same way too after having seen me writing with fountain pens almost all the time. For sure, as soon as it's possible, I will get her one and we will do the cleaning together. I am prepared to have some ink mess. We cannot make an omelet without breaking the eggs, can we? :-)

 

 

  On 1/25/2011 at 5:57 AM, HDoug said:

I am still trying to improve, but it made me realize that I have come a ways. Sometimes it feels like I'm not making any progress, and I think that's a common perception.Doug

 

I think your improvement is huge. I am no expert, but I believe the second sample is a perfect example of personalized italic handwriting. Mine is not yet mine...I am still working towards having a personalized version.