Painting pens/Maki-e/Lacquer work

[Siv]

I'm not going to be a pen maker - there are far too many of you competent guys out there already.

 

What I would like to have a go at is doing some kind of painting on a pen and then lacquering it. Kind of maki-e style but maybe not with the gold dust and urushi but the same principles with other materials. Has anyone tried doing this?

 

When a maki-e artist lacquers the ebonite pen, do they do they leave the threads raw or do these get a coating? I would think they are left bare but some threads look as shiny as the lacquered body.

 

Finally, does anyone have suggestions for a cheap cigar type pen that has a one piece barrel and cap without a clip that I can have a stab with?

[Penturner]

I'm not going to be a pen maker - there are far too many of you competent guys out there already.

 

What I would like to have a go at is doing some kind of painting on a pen and then lacquering it. Kind of maki-e style but maybe not with the gold dust and urushi but the same principles with other materials. Has anyone tried doing this?

 

When a maki-e artist lacquers the ebonite pen, do they do they leave the threads raw or do these get a coating? I would think they are left bare but some threads look as shiny as the lacquered body.

 

Finally, does anyone have suggestions for a cheap cigar type pen that has a one piece barrel and cap without a clip that I can have a stab with?

 

Hand painted pens, with protective lacquer has been done and is relatively easy, You just have to make sure that your pigments are compatible with the laquer used. My problem is that I am NOT an artist so any design i would impart to a pen barrel you be detrimental to the pen :roflmho:

 

What do you mean by "cheap cigar type pen that has a one piece barrel and cap"? Are you looking for a canvas? Ball point or fountian pen (roller ball)? The clip can be left off of almost all pen kits without modifying other parts, but all kits can be altered to eliminate the clip. More specifically, what precisely are you trying to accomplish?

 

Larry

 

[gwilki]

Like Larry, I'm not sure what kind of pen you are looking for. There are several kits that have only one blank, but all are ballpoint. As far as I know, all FP have two blanks - one for the barrel and one for the cap. As Larry as said, any of them can be done without the clip.

 

Is this the kind of work that you are contemplating?

 

http://www.penmakersguild.com/browse.php?g...tonj&page=0

 

 

 

[Siv]

Thanks for the replies. What I'm looking for it a blank canvas to try painting on. Something like these (but without clips):

 

http://www.nakaya.org/dimension2.jpg

 

Of course these are hugely expensive Japanese hand made pens. What I'm looking for is something similar (maybe in resin) which doesn't have any clips or fittings that I can paint and lacquer over without having to worry about getting paint or lacquer on the trip and fittings.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Siv

[jmkeuning]

How about that rOtring Lissabon? They usually resell for ~$30. It's a brass pen, so you should be able to get your finish to stick to it.

[gwilki]

Thanks for the replies. What I'm looking for it a blank canvas to try painting on. Something like these (but without clips):

 

http://www.nakaya.org/dimension2.jpg

 

Of course these are hugely expensive Japanese hand made pens. What I'm looking for is something similar (maybe in resin) which doesn't have any clips or fittings that I can paint and lacquer over without having to worry about getting paint or lacquer on the trip and fittings.

 

Siv

 

It's quite simple to turn pens without clips and centre bands, out of any of several different materials. PM me is you would like to explore this further.

 

[SincerelySpicy]

Hello,

 

I've actually started lacquering some pens as a hobby. I'm well into making two of them right now, one in chinkin and the other one maki-e over tamenuri, and I'm currently planning another using chinkin and the ishime kanshitsu process

 

Honestly, it isnt an easy process to use urushi in a small scale operation. I've spent quite a sum finding all the supplies, especially since i'm not one to settle for anything less than the best. I've found all of one place in the united states that stocks urushi, and i swear i read somewhere that there is a governmental ban on the import of urushi in large quantities.

 

Also, if youre allergic at all to poison ivy/oak/sumac, it would be wise not to use the material at all because urushi is the sap from a tree from the same genus as those three noxious plants, and the chemical that causes the rash is Urushiol which is the very same substance, in conjunction with a natural catalyst and humidity, that causes the lacquer to cure to a hard finish. (Luckily it seems that i've become immune to the urushiol (if thats at all possible) i've never gotten severe rashes from poison ivy, just minor itching, and now, i dont even get that anymore.)

 

You could very much use other materials for the lacquering and painting process (I also vaguely remember seeing a russian lacquer painted pen on this forum some time ago...or was it on stylophiles...). The second best material after true urushi would be cashew lacquer. Cashew lacquer is much more readily available and far cheaper. Its the most chemically similar to urushi, being is derived from the toxic outer "shell" of the cashew nut, a distant relative of the lacquer tree. The benefit of this lacquer is that it is of similar appearance and strength to urushi from the Toxicodendron vernicifluum tree. Also, cashew lacquer comes in a far greater variety of color and the transparent version is much more transparent than true urushi.

 

However, the same as hon-urushi, cashew needs humidity to cure. Speaking from experience, if you dont have a suitable curing cabinet (aka urushi furo) it can take months to dry if does at all. I've adapted an old cigar humidor with a humidor humidifier with a variable relative humidity settings for the process and i've managed to get the curing to 6-12 hours until dry to the touch.

 

I'm certainly not trying to deter you from using the urushi or cashew, as those are indeed the best materials to use, and i've yet to find any material that you can use (other than catalyzing urethane...car paint...which needs to be sprayed and has toxic fumes) that comes near the durability of urushi.

 

Yet there IS hope. Japanning has been around since the 1700s and unlike true lacquerware, it was developed by europeans as a cheaper substitute for importing real lacquerware. It uses various much more readily available materials, which is also far less noxious. It is this japanning process that developed into the decoupage process.

 

Japanning uses materials such as shellac (traditional wood finish, esp. violins and guitars) Copal (semifossilized amber), drying oils (oil paint binder i.e. linseed, poppyseed, walnut) and more recently, synthetic resins such as polyurethane (wood finish), acrylic and alkyd (paint binders, sign paints, and "enamels") Any of these materials can be used as a glossing medium and binder for japanning techniques effectively.

 

Feel free to private message me if you want more information. Since I'm well experienced with woodworking, fine art painting, and have given much thought to various alternatives to urushi, there is a lot more information i can give you that i havent written here, and i can probably answer most of your questions.

 

Acrylic model paints and "lacquers" (Testors)

Drying oils such as linseed oil, of which stand oil provides the toughest finish (Windsor & Newton, Maimeri, Sennelier...etc)

Painting resins and varnishes including copal (see above for brands)

Alkyd paints and Mediums (Windsor & Newton Brandname Liquin)

Shellac (Various brands...preferably bought in dry flakes and dissolved just before use)

 

Metallic Pigments (Jacquard Pearl-Ex Pigments)

Powdered Pigments (Gamblin, Sinopia....etc)

 

Wikipedia on Japanning

Urushi-Kobo: Information on Urushi and the Lacquer Process

Dick Blick: Most of the Japanning supplies i mentioned can be found here

Cashew Lacquer Source

Edited June 28, 2008 by SJM1123

[SincerelySpicy]

Okay,

 

Now that i overwrote about the process, I decided to separate my bit of info about the particular pens that you could possibly use. I've listed the pens more or less from more expensive to least.

 

I have found several pens out there that can be easily used as a "canvas" for any sort of lacquering or painting. As you have seen already, Nakaya is a very good source for simple pens, but yes, they are expensive, and i would be hard pressed to get myself to even consider marring a nakaya pen.

 

Sailor could be a good source, although also expensive, it seems that the King of Pen was MADE for being the substrate for a customization, because the clip comes off very easily by simply unscrewing the tip of the cap. No adhesive at all.

 

Some vintage pens may be a good candidate. A less expensive slip cap eyedropper or an old hard rubber parker or waterman would certainly look very nice if nicely lacquered. And to lessen the cost of the pen, you could most certainly buy one that has been slightly discolored and lacquer it over to hide the discoloration especially since lacquer would penetrate the pores of oxidized hard rubber and strengthen the material.

 

A modern parker duofold could be an excellent candidate, as long as one can unseat the adhesive used to hold the threaded parts together. I've found a plan showing where those threaded parts are, and all metal pieces could be removed and reassembled after completing the customization.

 

Brian at Edison Pen Co may be a good source for some pens, as his pens are hard rubber and few dont have cap bands, you could ask him if clips are removable.

 

Now for some cheaper pens.

 

A Montblanc SL is a nice pen that could be used, because the clip is easily removable by using section pliers to unscrew the cap tassie. (dont try to remove the barrel tassie as that part is rivetted in place)

 

I know that Pelikan Souveräns have easily removable clips by unscrewing the cap jewel, and i dont see why the less expensive M200s would be any different.

 

Any number of vintage ringtops may also work,

 

And lastly, if you dont mind having a completely metal cap and only customizing the barrel, there are plenty of pens out there that would work nicely. i.e. Parker Frontier, Sheaffer Modern Crest....etc

 

AAAND finally, the last route i would go is to use a pen turning kit from a woodworking craft store. But since those are notorious for being bad quality, as i said, it would be my last choice.

 

Again, if you would like more information, or have any questions, feel free to pm me.

 

[SincerelySpicy]

AH,

 

I forgot about your second question. I have a feeling that pens that are made specifically for lacquering have threads specially made so that even if it is lacquered over, it will fit into the cap threads. However, I am by no means certain about that.

 

I have found out through my own experience, lacquering the threads can lead to problems. I would think this is so because for a cap to be secure on a pen, threads need to be at least somewhat tight and lacquering layers a surprisingly large amount of urushi onto the surface of the substrate (sometimes up to 2 millimeters) and putting that much lacquer on threads would just not allow the cap to fit.

 

For your purpose, I would try and find a pen that either dosent use threads, or not lacquer the threads altogether. BUUUT since i've learned from experience, I would encourage you to try different things out. Who knows, maybe you'll find something that works.

[Siv]

SJM1123, thanks so much for your advice! I really appreciate you taking so much time to write all that down. I'll definitely be in touch when I have my first attempt at painting on a pen.

 

My current plan is that I'm not going to go down the traditional lacquer path just yet as it sounds very complicated. I'm going to try painting with acrylics which my wife and I use for painting on canvas. Then I'm going to look for something - maybe as tacky as polyurethane varnish... not sure, just to see how it covers the paint.

[SincerelySpicy]

SJM1123, thanks so much for your advice! I really appreciate you taking so much time to write all that down. I'll definitely be in touch when I have my first attempt at painting on a pen.

 

My current plan is that I'm not going to go down the traditional lacquer path just yet as it sounds very complicated. I'm going to try painting with acrylics which my wife and I use for painting on canvas. Then I'm going to look for something - maybe as tacky as polyurethane varnish... not sure, just to see how it covers the paint.

 

No Problem!

 

As for your description of the first attempt, I think that sounds great. Yeah, youre going to need a very tough sealant especially if you want to use acrylic artist paint, and since polyurethane is very strong, it would be a good choice...although since it usually has a slight yellow tinge to it, it may be better to keep the colors on the warm side of the spectrum. Personally, i would use polyurethane wipe on varnish (which you can buy, or make by thinning regular polyurethane in two times the amount of thinner) It provides a more even surface than the brush on stuff. You just need to apply it gradually in thin layers while being careful with the first few layers so that the painting dosent get damaged.

 

Be sure to post a pic of it when youre done, I'm eager to see how it turns out.

 

Good Luck!

Ern.

Edited July 1, 2008 by SJM1123

[JohnD]

SJM1123 i would also like to thank you for enlightening us to these lacquer techniques. It makes you appreciate the effort these artists go to in order for us to enjoy their artwork.

 

Thanks again

 

John

[MYU]

SJM, have you finished any of your pens to the point where you wouldn't mind showing them off? I'd be keen to see some examples.

[SincerelySpicy]

SJM, have you finished any of your pens to the point where you wouldn't mind showing them off? I'd be keen to see some examples.

 

 

I have two tsugaru nuri-shikake monshanuri ones that should be done within the next month. I have to say, its been taking a long time because of random problems i've been encountering as well as the fact that I've been very busy otherwise.

 

I'll be sure to post pics of them when they're done.

 

Thanks for the interest!

 

,

Ern.