Pilot 823 vs. Montblanc 149/146

[vision35]

I already own a Pilot 823 in medium nib, love it but the nib's a bit too thick. It's also a larger pen than I prefer. But, I love its design and writing smoothness. I was going to get another in a fine but thought maybe I should try the Montblanc Diplomat (but it's kinda oversize) or Legrande.

 

Which is a better pen, the PIlot or the Montblanc? If you prefer the Montblanc, is the 146 just as good as the 149, except for the size?

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I'd get the Pilot if my main focus was writing use. It's very reliable. MB are slightly more fragile in my opinion, but they are fine writers once tuned up properly.

 

Dillon

Edited June 2, 2008 by Dillo

[John Cullen]

I have all three pens. Each has a large, firm, smooth nib. I do not see much difference there. MB may be a little wetter than its designation suggests. It is not like one brand has rock hard nibs and the other has flexy nibs. I like the pens, but I would say my 149 Fine, my 146 Medium and my 823 Broad all put down a smooth if somewhat boring looking line. In other words, because there is no spring to the nibs, you just get a uniform line.

 

If someone broke into my house and switched out the nibs so that the 146 had the 823 nib and the 823 had the 146 nib and I came into the study late at night and pulled one of the pens out to write with, I doubt I would suddenly be wide awake in horror because pen X was not writing like pen X always wrote in the past. Big, firm, smooth nibs. Now, if someone slipped the springy nib out of my OMas Paragon and replaced it with a Waterman Le Man 100 nib, then I would wake up and wonder what had happened.

 

Filling system: piston vs vac. I do get sick of unscrewing the back blind cap on the 823. The MB pistons can get sticky after time and unlike with a Pelikan there is no easy way to lube a MB. So they both get dings here, as far as I am concerned.

 

Cost: You can get an 823 for $225 or so? A MB 146 is probably way more new. So if cost is an issue, then the PIlot is the pen for you. If in truth the money is not a big deal for you on this purchase, then I guess this is not important.

 

Filling: both are easy to use but the Vac may take a little more fuss. On the other hand, if you go to flush a MB you will have to run water through it a few times, and that is not so different from having to fill the 823 with clean water, shake it, and expell the water. YOu can then shake down the 823 and, assuming you do not let go of it and stab it into the floor, you can get it reasonably empty so that it dries out in a day or so, or can be refilled. (remember: most modern pens break when dropped five feet to a stone floor. Get a snorkle if you want a disaster proof pen)

 

If you think there is water in the ink when you go to refill either pen, shoot the ink out and refill. No big deal, unless you are on a strict budget and can't imagine wasting ten drops of ink, and if that is so what are you doing thinking of buying either one of these pens?

 

Service: If you are in the US I do not know if Namiki would service the pen and I do not know how long it would take to get it back if it had to go to Japan? MB service? Who knows. I hear so many different stories about MB service that I do not know what to think. Any discussion of MB is likely to become emotional, and when emotion take over logic leaves the room and people blow up their one service experience to an overall generalization of the entire history of the pen company and everyone who works for it. So it is hard to know. If you have a MB botique nearby and they can do the service, maybe this is not big deal. Maybe this depends on how much separation anxiety you would feel if your pen had to go (or should I say when it has to go <sigh>) to summer camp?

 

 

conclusion: I personally do not see much difference, other than price, between the 823 and MB. If someone has proof of some sort that the 823 Vac only needs servicing once every hundred years whereas the MB piston only lasts for ten years, then that could indeed be a deciding factor for someone.

 

As I said, I have both and they are nice torpedo shaped pens with firm and smooth nibs that write well pretty much as soon as they are picked up. Both are nice pens. Hang on to the pen when you use it and be reasonably careful and either pen should work well.

 

I imagine others will disagree with me, and that is fine, but there is not much difference here when it comes right down to filling and writing with the pens. Maybe you like the size of the 149, cool. Maybe when it is posted the 823 is just perfect for your hand, cool.

 

I think the choice is going to be based on personal feel rather than some objective standard or feature one pen has or lacks.

 

J

 

 

[goodguy]

I think John gave you all the info you need but I will add my thoughts too.

 

If you plan to buy the pens new then there will be a big difference between the Pilot and the MB.

The 149 is a very big impressive pen that in my eyes out class both the 146 and Pilot but it doesnt mean its a much better writer.

Comparing the 146 and Pilot is a more natural comparison as both pens are close in size and feeling.

If the buy price doesnt concern you I would go for the 146.I got the chance to write few times with the 823 and I own a MB 146 and I like the feeling of the 146 better (both pens have M nibs).Both were equaly smooth but the MB was a bit wetter and more responsive.I also like the classic look of the MB 146 (even though the 2 pens look very close a like).

 

So I'd go with the 146.

[Tony the Tiger]

If you ever need service for the 823, you're in a for a nightmare--trust me.

[Martius]

I have both an 823 and a 146, and if I lost both of them somehow, I would buy the 823 again every time. Without question, the 823 beats the 146 in most categories. The 146 is wetter, which I like, but an 823 can easily be made as wet. I have also tried a fair few 149's, and I cannot say there is any advantage to the 149 over the 823 unless you particularly prefer pens with massive grips. The 149's seem ill balanced, emphasizing ridiculous size over good balance (big pens CAN be made to balance well - see Nakaya or DaniTrio), and the nibs generally feel like they have better things to do than write - simply not an inviting feel. Frankly, I was astounded to see how poor the build quality and writing quality was on the 149's, considering the price. My Waterman Kultur writes about as well as all the 149's I've tried; let's not even talk about a comparison with my Densho. As far as I can tell, the 823 wins all around. It is a heavier, better balanced pen with a more normal sized grip; the build quality is superb. It holds a ton of ink and is easy to disassemble (without voiding the warranty!), and it really is one of the best writers out there. Plus, it is a full-barrel demonstrator to boot, which in my view (no pun intended) beats an ink window! Also, it has a locking valve, which means you can fly with it.

 

It's true that the service offered for the Japan-only Pilot pens is difficult for people who don't speak Japanese, but having said that, I doubt Pilot service policy could possibly be more petty and nitpicky than MB warranty policy. If I needed work on either my 823 or my 146, I would go to my own independent pen restorer, who can probably get the job done better and faster at a cheaper cost. If you want great service, choose Pelikan (which is, by the way, a great pen). But between MB and the 823, go for the 823 without a doubt.

 

Best,

Summer Greer

[Blade Runner]

Both great pens! I'd be happy with either, and the choice is largely a matter of personal preference and price.

The fit and finish of the Pilot and Meisterstucks are impeccable, both make their own nibs and produce high quality pens, and their qc is superior to many brands in my experience.

The service issue however is a big discriminating factor.

If you break the body of an 823, as Tony the Tiger will tell you, you are forced to buy a new pen.

If you break a Meisterstuck body, you will pay the std service fee -$55-60 last time I checked - even if the pen is out of the warranty window. Plus the turnaround time for MB repair will be within 2 weeks generally and postage to MB is in the US, whereas the postage cost and turnaround time for the Pilot will be greater. I might add that I've had very pleasant and satisfactory experiences with MB service in Bethlehem, Pa. for nib exchanges and maintenance. Hoping Pilot will provide better service coverage in the US for their models not distributed in the US market.

[Nikolaos]

i have all three of these pens and pretty much agree with everyone. Service might be an issue with the 823, but apart from that they are all wonderful pens. The 149 somehow stands out because of its size, and i find it a really nice pen to write with. You can't really go wrong with any of the three.

 

Nikolaos

[ANM]

I have not read through ALL of the replies completely so if this is a repeat, consider it a second opinion. I have all three in fine nibs and I use the Pilot much more. I like the fine point on it better than the other two. I'd completely discount any one saying whether one writes wetter than another. The same pen can write wetter or dryer than the same pen that comes of the line right behind it. How the pen writes is subjective and can be adjusted by you or if you want to pay someone to tune it for you.

[John Cullen]

ANM Yes, I think you make an important point: any pen can be made to write more wet or more dry than it does out of the box.

 

However, I think that out of the box it is likely that most recent MB 149 fine points will write on the wide and wet side, just as the Pilot Fine, because it is a Japanese fine, will likely be more on the thin side of fine, something a potential buyer should think about.

 

j

[simonrob]

I already own a Pilot 823 in medium nib, love it but the nib's a bit too thick. It's also a larger pen than I prefer. But, I love its design and writing smoothness. I was going to get another in a fine but thought maybe I should try the Montblanc Diplomat (but it's kinda oversize) or Legrande.

 

Which is a better pen, the PIlot or the Montblanc? If you prefer the Montblanc, is the 146 just as good as the 149, except for the size?

 

I have little experience with modern Montblancs (their vintage pens are marvelous), so I won't answer that question but instead ask you another one: if you think the Pilot 823 medium nib is "a bit too thick" why don't you do what I did to mine and have a nibmeister regrind it to a shape or size you prefer? (Finding standard round nib tips boring, I had mine converted to a left oblique cursive italic by Richard Binder, and it's now anything but a boring blob to write with.) It will cost a lot less than buying another one, let alone a modern Montblanc....

 

Simon

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

You shouldn't have too much trouble getting an 823 serviced. Tony the Tiger's specific pen was accidentally destroyed by alcohol, and IMO it was not Pilot's fault for making a defective pen, but an honest but quite unfortunate mistake.

 

I've heard of Pilot pens from Japan getting repaired for little cost if any if they are defective.

 

Dillon

[Blade Runner]

Hi,

 

You shouldn't have too much trouble getting an 823 serviced. Tony the Tiger's specific pen was accidentally destroyed by alcohol, and IMO it was not Pilot's fault for making a defective pen, but an honest but quite unfortunate mistake.

 

I've heard of Pilot pens from Japan getting repaired for little cost if any if they are defective.

 

Dillon

It's not a question of defective workmanship. If you break the pen body by dropping it or by alcohol, and it's your fault, the recourse will be the same,

namely buying a new pen for those models not distributed in the US. I believe that is Tony's experience.

Edited June 3, 2008 by jeen

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

Dipping in alcohol causes pretty much total distruction of the pen which would require total replacement. Dropping it breaks just a part of the pen which can be replaced. I remember a story where one person broke a part on one of the Japan only Pilots and it was replaced at nominal cost. I can't remember though where the post is.

 

Dillon

Edited June 3, 2008 by Dillo

[Deirdre]

I'd get the 823 black demonstrator and a Custom 742 with a falcon nib, swap nibs, then sell the Custom 742.

Second choice would be a platinum 146.

[SteadyHand]

+1 Custom 823 is a phenominal pen and a great value.

[Martius]

Hi,

 

You shouldn't have too much trouble getting an 823 serviced. Tony the Tiger's specific pen was accidentally destroyed by alcohol, and IMO it was not Pilot's fault for making a defective pen, but an honest but quite unfortunate mistake.

 

I've heard of Pilot pens from Japan getting repaired for little cost if any if they are defective.

 

Dillon

 

Sorry to hijack this thread a bit, but how does a plastic pen get destroyed by alcohol? And would all 823's/most plastic pens suffer the same fate as that particular 823 if dipped in alcohol?

 

Best,

Summer

[southpaw]

My recommendation is to keep the 823 you have now and have the nib ground to suit you. By the time you factor in depreciation, S&H, etc., you'll come out ahead financially and have a nib that's tweaked just for you. How do I know? I did it with my 823 and I'm thrilled! As to having the pen serviced, should mine ever need it, it'll go to Richard Binder or Ron Zorn and they'll take care of the filling system.

 

 

As to the comment on alcohol and plastics, suffice it to say that many plastics don't get along too well with alcohol. I've seen polycarbonate (aka Lexan) shatter from a few drops of alcohol. Granted the tensile bars were under stress, but that just enhances and accelerates the failure mode.

[vision35]

I'd get the 823 black demonstrator and a Custom 742 with a falcon nib, swap nibs, then sell the Custom 742.

Second choice would be a platinum 146.

 

 

Thanks everybody for the really helpful answers. Regarding the suggestion about getting the 742 and swapping nibs, that sounds like a fun idea. My questions are:

 

1. How do you remove the nib from the Pilot 742 and 823? I know how to do it on Pelikan Sovereigns, but otherwise no clue.

2. Is the 742 falcon a much smaller nib than what's on the 823 (I think the latter is #15), so does that throw off the "look" of the large 823 pen

3. What do you like about the 742 falcon nib.

 

Thanks

[Deirdre]

Hmm. I thought the 823 had a #10 nib, not a #15 nib (but I admit -- I didn't look it up). In that case, I'd buy a Custom 743 falcon, which has a #15 nib.

 

It's the best modern flex nib.