Chartpak and Noodler's ink

[Rapt]

I'd want the damaged parts so I could see the damage. Not to mention the parts are yours still.

 

As a person who works in the product design (and sometimes support) field I make careful use of language. To me 'damage' means that there was a change in the physical condition of the parts themselves, (like gouges, pits, melting, deformation) as opposed to say a build up of material or a clogging of channels, over the surface of the parts.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Rapt

[Deirdre]

I'd want the damaged parts so I could see the damage.

I've learned an awful lot about cars over the years by always wanting to see my spark plugs, etc. I even have one of the damaged suspension parts when I ran my car into an innocent bollard once.

 

Therefore, I agree: I'd want to see what the damage was.

[absent_minded]

I'll second the observation made about Noodler's black leaving a film that can be removed only by wiping. I had a Pelikan nib unit that I used with Noodler's black, and the only way I could remove the film was by dismantling the unit and wiping the feed and underside of the nib; cleaning the engraving, which looked like somebody had traced the lines with a black marker, was a PITA, as well. I have since used Noodler's black only in a Wing Sung knockoff of an aero P51, and the Wing Sung, though fully functional, has had all its internals coated with the same sooty film.

 

On the positive side, this film doesn't seem to affect a pen's behavior... then again, I don't use the same ink for a very long time.

[Rick Propas]

After reading all these threads, I think the only conclusion I can draw (but not in waterproof black) is that Noodler's is not an ink, but a religion and I guess we all must be free to worship as we see fit.

[Deirdre]

After reading all these threads, I think the only conclusion I can draw (but not in waterproof black) is that Noodler's is not an ink, but a religion and I guess we all must be free to worship as we see fit.

I think that's said uncharitable, actually. I totally get that people have different desires in inks. I like waterproof + color, but I don't honestly care if other people don't choose the same ink. So in that case, I agree that we should worship as we see fit, but I don't see Noodler's as a religion. Then again, I'm a poly-pantheon poly-theist, so that likely explains the other inks in my drawer.

[Splicer]

After reading all these threads, I think the only conclusion I can draw (but not in waterproof black) is that Noodler's is not an ink, but a religion and I guess we all must be free to worship as we see fit.

 

Funny you should say it's not ink. I've been considering litigation against companies that sell colored liquids in bottles that, when put on paper, can be washed off in a matter of seconds, or that will fade beyond legibility within a few decades. Calling those liquids "ink" is, unless qualified as "washable ink", fraudulent and false advertisement.

 

There are a lot of makers whose colors I like more than Noodlers', but after I'm dead when my great-grandchildren find my journals in the attic, I don't want them saying, "Darn, gramps always used that stupid fountain pen. If he'd only used a ballpoint we could read these."

 

I know nothing is truly permanent, but fountain pen users have put up with having to use inferior inks for as long as there have been fountain pens. Now suddenly someone makes some ink that isn't a step down from those stupid mass-produced biros and several steps down from what goes into a technical pen or a dip pen, and those of us that rejoice and start using it are religious zealots???

 

I take great offense at the suggestion that the desire for durable inks is a cult. I'm stopping writing now before I begin using profanity.

[Deirdre]

I know nothing is truly permanent, but fountain pen users have put up with having to use inferior inks for as long as there have been fountain pens. Now suddenly someone makes some ink that isn't a step down from those stupid mass-produced biros and several steps down from what goes into a technical pen or a dip pen, and those of us that rejoice and start using it are religious zealots???

 

I take great offense at the suggestion that the desire for durable inks is a cult. I'm stopping writing now before I begin using profanity.

I think it's Zeitgeist time. We should capture ethernautrix for same.

[savarez]

I'm a poly-pantheon poly-theist, so that likely explains the other inks in my drawer.

 

I'm personally starting an effort to revive the worship of the twelve Olympian Gods, but I do not recall Noodler being part of the pantheon.

 

I believe, however, I recall once seeing a relief of Zeus holding a Parker 51.

 

[Splicer]

I think it's Zeitgeist time. We should capture ethernautrix for same.

 

Full agreement. It's getting warm enough at night to enjoy the patio, or back yard or whatever it's called. I can do this Thursday, but next Thursday is the day before Open Studios. I'd love to see any and all pen people come by and I'll show off my Millennium Edition ArtPens and the way too many rapidographs I've amassed, but the night before it starts I'm definitely booked up.

 

Meaning this week, or we wait until May 1st.

 

Or, y'know, pick a day other than Thursday.

 

Lets start the cult!

[Deirdre]

I'm a poly-pantheon poly-theist, so that likely explains the other inks in my drawer.

I'm personally starting an effort to revive the worship of the twelve Olympian Gods...

Thiasos Olympikos doesn't have the best web presence, but they do some fine rituals. Wouldn't Zeus prefer a metal pen?

[savarez]

I'm a poly-pantheon poly-theist, so that likely explains the other inks in my drawer.

I'm personally starting an effort to revive the worship of the twelve Olympian Gods...

Thiasos Olympikos doesn't have the best web presence, but they do some fine rituals. Wouldn't Zeus prefer a metal pen?

 

Perhaps it was a Flighter.

[Juan in Andalucia]

Funny you should say it's not ink. I've been considering litigation against companies that sell colored liquids in bottles that, when put on paper, can be washed off in a matter of seconds, or that will fade beyond legibility within a few decades. Calling those liquids "ink" is, unless qualified as "washable ink", fraudulent and false advertisement.

 

Please, record it and upload in youtube if you do.

 

There are a lot of makers whose colors I like more than Noodlers', but after I'm dead when my great-grandchildren find my journals in the attic, I don't want them saying, "Darn, gramps always used that stupid fountain pen. If he'd only used a ballpoint we could read these."

 

Maybe they'll say: "If he had used plain fountain pen ink, we could use these beautiful fps"

 

I know nothing is truly permanent, but fountain pen users have put up with having to use inferior inks for as long as there have been fountain pens. Now suddenly someone makes some ink that isn't a step down from those stupid mass-produced biros and several steps down from what goes into a technical pen or a dip pen, and those of us that rejoice and start using it are religious zealots???

 

Religious zealots? no!!...just grasshoppers on their way to learn the hard way. Now seriously, the number of concerns with those bulletproof/permanent/whatever inks is enough to make me shiver

 

I take great offense at the suggestion that the desire for durable inks is a cult. I'm stopping writing now before I begin using profanity.

 

Back in 1992 I was staying in London and I got to Buggs Tattoo (one of the best tattoo studios in Europe), and I had a chance to talk to Buggs (I didn't get a tattoo), he showed me some designs he was working on. One of them was to cover an old tattoo. I had heard about "temporary ink" tattoos (you know, those which in the best of cases become a blur), and I asked him whether he used that kind of ink. He told me he didn't use that stuff. "So, yours last for ever?" I said. He looked at me and answered "No, just until you f***ing die".

 

The moral of all this is that everything has limitations; we have to live with that.

 

It doesn't qualify as a cult; maybe a sect.

 

[Juan in Andalucia]

It doesn't qualify as a cult; maybe a sect.

 

"When I push to the bottom,

The piston knob,

then it gets stuck there like dry mud,

then the flow, the flow becomes a flood,

all this mess on my desk

...and I send it to repair!!!!

C'mon!!!

Helter Skelter...dara-daradara-da

Helter Skelter"

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. This white widow is damn good.

 

Juan

 

 

[limesally]

Maybe they'll say: "If he had used plain fountain pen ink, we could use these beautiful fps"

 

Honestly? In this hypothetical situation, I'd be far more interested in an ancestor's thoughts and experiences than his *stuff*.

 

And no, I am not a worshipper in the cult of Noodlers. I use it in only a few of my pens. I just understand why for some people and situations, persistence of thought is more important than persistence of a material good.

Edited April 14, 2008 by limesally

[Splicer]

Maybe they'll say: "If he had used plain fountain pen ink, we could use these beautiful fps"

 

Honestly? In this hypothetical situation, I'd be far more interested in an ancestor's thoughts and experiences than his *stuff*.

 

Well, one of the things that they'll get to read about is how I clean my pens at least semiregularly. If I can keep my technical pens clean and clog-free (they take drawing ink and have much closer tolerances than a fountain pen), I think my fountain pens will still be flowing long after I stop flowing.

 

I suspect that if I fill a pen with Noodler's and then leave it for a few years, it will be unusable or at least require special measures to get it to write again. I suspect the same is true if I use Waterman Black or Quink.

[Juan in Andalucia]

Maybe they'll say: "If he had used plain fountain pen ink, we could use these beautiful fps"

 

Honestly? In this hypothetical situation, I'd be far more interested in an ancestor's thoughts and experiences than his *stuff*.

 

Well, one of the things that they'll get to read about is how I clean my pens at least semiregularly. If I can keep my technical pens clean and clog-free (they take drawing ink and have much closer tolerances than a fountain pen), I think my fountain pens will still be flowing long after I stop flowing.

 

I suspect that if I fill a pen with Noodler's and then leave it for a few years, it will be unusable or at least require special measures to get it to write again. I suspect the same is true if I use Waterman Black or Quink.

 

I agree with you, splicer. I think that people should be warned about specific issues of different inks. For example, I have a few converters stained by Waterman South Seas Blue, which I used exclusively for years, and I have an Aurora Optima with an inkwindow stained by Omas blue. I regularly clean my pens, and I take my time.

 

If I'm asked to suggest an ink to a newbie, I'll go on the safe side and choose an old standby in one of the common colors (black, blue or blueblack). I'll ask which pen will they use: I wouldn't suggest a designer ink for a vintage 61 or a demonstrator.

 

 

 

[kaos]

Still do not understand why people think there is a problem with Noodlers inks. I have yet to have any trouble, and yes I have let pens dry out. Just rinse them, and they are good to go. All Noodlers inks are water soluable. The BulletProof ink just chemically react with paper, no paper on the inside of my pens.

 

Also, I use Noodlers ink in my journal to ensure that the journal can be read well into the future. While I doubt that any ink will fade much in a closed book, why take the chance. In addition, I will have to agree that what I write in my journal is far more important than the pen I use.

 

As for the film I have read about on nibs, I have never experienced it. When I do rinse me pens, the nibs are the clean as the day I bought them. In fact, Noodlers ink is easier to clean off my nibs than my NOS Sheaffer Skrip.

 

I still want to know of anyone who has actually ruined a fountain pen by using Noodlers ink. I am terrible about cleaning pens, and have never had a problem. I never clean my office pens, and rarely clean my home pens. Since I have been using some of the pens since the 70's, and Noodlers ink for some years now, I can attest to the fact that there has yet to be any damage to my pens caused by any fountain pen ink. Only damage has been to my forgetfullness and allowing a pen to roll off a desk.

Edited April 14, 2008 by kaos

[encephalartos]

Any ink that was left in a pen for years and dried out won't be easy to clean.

 

It happened to me with family pens I found in my Dad's desk. I had to fill

them with water and let them steep over and over again. I e-mailed my

local nib-meister's shop to ask what else I could try, and they recommended

a weak solution of household ammonia (few drops in a cup). Even using

that for the treatment and soaking the pen still took a couple weeks.

 

Whatever was in this pen was from before Noodlers was invented.

 

The storal of this mory is don't let ink dry out in pens. If you do, it

won't be easy to clean, and I don't care what brand it is.

 

[shostakovich]

After reading all these threads, I think the only conclusion I can draw (but not in waterproof black) is that Noodler's is not an ink, but a religion and I guess we all must be free to worship as we see fit.

 

Funny you should say it's not ink. I've been considering litigation against companies that sell colored liquids in bottles that, when put on paper, can be washed off in a matter of seconds, or that will fade beyond legibility within a few decades. Calling those liquids "ink" is, unless qualified as "washable ink", fraudulent and false advertisement.

 

There are a lot of makers whose colors I like more than Noodlers', but after I'm dead when my great-grandchildren find my journals in the attic, I don't want them saying, "Darn, gramps always used that stupid fountain pen. If he'd only used a ballpoint we could read these."

 

I know nothing is truly permanent, but fountain pen users have put up with having to use inferior inks for as long as there have been fountain pens. Now suddenly someone makes some ink that isn't a step down from those stupid mass-produced biros and several steps down from what goes into a technical pen or a dip pen, and those of us that rejoice and start using it are religious zealots???

 

I take great offense at the suggestion that the desire for durable inks is a cult. I'm stopping writing now before I begin using profanity.

This is one of the most sensible posts I've read on this MB.

 

You are totally correct, inks should be permanent, and not fade and dissolve if wet.

 

There is another thread in the last few days about "did Noodler's ink ruin my Pelikan pen" or words to that effect. Apparently there are ideas around that Pelikan may be avoiding warranty if "permanent" (Noodler's) inks have been used.

 

All I can say is, if FP manufacturers cannot produce pens that take proper permanent ink without problems, then I will not be purchasing any expensive makes such as Pelikan and others. From now on I will buy only very cheap pens and if my expensive pens crack up then they will have to go into the rubbish bin like all other items of junk.

 

A pen is ONLY a means of getting words onto paper. The words are the important bit, not the pens.

 

[justforever]

I have about 5 Pelikans from the M600 to M400 and have been in contact with Chartpak and have very specifically discussed this with them. It is my understanding that they do not recommend Noodlers specifically nor any other permanent ink. I do a lot of writing on many different papers and I am required to use black ink. Although Aurora is considered the best by many, I find it too wet for some papers where it tends to bleed through to the other side. Richard Binder writes about inks (The good, the bad, and the ugly.) at his web site and certainly would list Noodler's as high maintenance. I've tried every kind of ink I've read about and finally settled with PELIKAN. It flows good doesn't bleed and is as black as Aurora. I care about my pens and Pelikan is medium maintenance so I wash with cold water now and then. I don't use Noodlers because of the potential for trouble.