Chartpak and Noodler's ink

[Deirdre]

PS: I've named my Fox Red/Black combination 'Abigail Rose,' after my sister-in-law who fancies herself a Gothic poet. It is a very brooding, angstful color. I feel like I'm writing with bottled hate. Try it next time you correspond with your ex-wife/landlord/mother-in-law. I might also suggest the name 'Dead Roses' for those of you who haven't had the pleasure of meeting my oh-so-self-serious sister-in-law.

I'd just suggest calling that color Emily.

[mturk]

When Noodler's Black first hit the shelves, I promptly purchased a bottle and filled two Parker 51 vacs. With a week, the ink had turned into a semi-viscous sludge in these pens that required open-section surgery to repair. After this incident, I reconsidered exactly how important it was that I could hold a letter or journal under water for twenty minutes and have it still legable. I retain a bottle each of Legal Lapis and Zhivago, and use them only in modern CC fillers, where I can get to any problem areas. I've used lapis in one of my M800s, but with this new information, that bottle also may be up for sale.

[Juan in Andalucia]

Take heed, take heed!!!

 

When Parker Superchrome hit the shelves people rushed to get that fantastic new ink. It took some years before Parker stopped production. Same with Parker Penman. Parker probably replaced the parts/pens damaged by those inks (they replaced a worn gold ring section in a Duofold orange damaged by penman), but... Parker was the manufacturer of both the pens and the inks.

 

After many years using fountain pens I've realized they have limitations: they're not for the careless, or duffers, carrying in the back pocket of your pants is not a good idea, and they need some basic maintenance.

 

Know the limitations of your pens and live with them.

 

Bulletprrof inks? Ever heard of disposable rollerballs?

[Bill Smith]

I would get a clarification from Chartpak. I think it's more to discourage the use of india and calligraphy inks. I use Noodlers Polar Blue in a few of my Pelikans with no issues at all.

 

 

[wpblaw]

I would get a clarification from Chartpak. I think it's more to discourage the use of india and calligraphy inks. I use Noodlers Polar Blue in a few of my Pelikans with no issues at all.

 

After reading the entire thread, and a few posts like yours, one word comes to mind: "yet".

 

Noodler's is a relatively new development. Fountain pens are meant to last a long, long time as functional tools, jewelry, collector items, and heirlooms. While some have had more instant problems than others (I've never thought twice about using Noodler's), Chartpak clearly found something hurting this pen/nib and it seems like its advice is pretty clear to me: use waterproof/water-resistant/permanent inks at your own risk.

 

Of course, the fact that Pelikan sells its own ink doesn't add a ton of credibility to this statement of policy. I think you are right to want clarification, but I'd also like to know what Noodler's has to so about this type of warning. If I'm not mistaken, Nathan at Noodler's is a pen enthusiast and must be aware of the possibility of harmful reactions and residues?

[daveg]

I think I detect some confusion here. When Noodlers inks are listed as "waterproof" I believe that means after they have DRIED ON PAPER.

 

Noodlers inks are ALL water soluble meaning they will infinitely dilute( dissipate?) given enough water as long as they are not on paper(cellulose).

 

Here's what Richard's site says:

 

The highest-maintenance inks of all, in my experience, are Noodler’s “bulletproof” colors. These inks, although their dyes are in solution, contain suspended particulate matter (the stuff that makes the ink bond chemically with the paper), and they can sometimes have flow and clogging issues — as well as a high creepability that results from the use of a greater amount of surfactant than normal in order to keep the particulates flowing well. (In layman’s terms, these inks are simply “wetter” than other inks.) These minor quirks aside, however, they’re excellent inks; and if you absolutely, positively need permanence, they definitely deserve consideration. Every user’s experience is different, and you might just find that nothing else works as well in your pens as these inks.

 

That "suspended particulate matter" could be what Chartpak was referring to.

Edited March 20, 2008 by daveg

[Bill Smith]

Let's not forget Chartpak and by that extension Pelikan want to sell you their own ink, not promote someone elses product. On the one hand they want to discourage people from being dumb and use india ink and other "non FP" inks in your pelikan. The other hand they have the 4001 ink series, it's nice ink, I love the blue and blue/black. Lets not forget Pelikan/Chartpak is not in the business selling you Noodlers, they want you to use their ink exclusively.

 

 

[Juan in Andalucia]

 

 

When it comes to fountain pens and inks (and other aspects of my life) I try not to trust any company or manufacturer's worth for anything. Waterman used to warn -in the yellow boxes and stickers from the 80s- against mixing different inks. A few years ago the offered (in Spain at least) a mixing ink kit. Go figure.

 

I try to trust experience from people who have been using, selling or repairing fps for decades. As I said, fountain pens have limitations, and so do inks. We must accept it. Some examples:

 

-You want a pen which holds a galoon of ink? Maybe you're suffering from hypergraphia

-You want an ink to look ancient (sepia), and yet you want it to be PH neutral, irongaul free, acid free to be used in acidfree paper? You might do a google search about the history of inks, but you might be a posseur.

-You want an ink with no shading, waterproof, fadeproof, fraudproof... you're removing the reason d'etre of fountain pens, the wasi-sabi of writing.

 

I think that Chartpak is simply reminding us that it is a fountain pen that we're using. Simple as that.

 

[Jinnayah]

-You want an ink to look ancient (sepia), and yet you want it to be PH neutral, irongaul free, acid free to be used in acidfree paper? You might do a google search about the history of inks, but you might be a posseur.

Or you're wanting a bottle of J. Herbin Cafe de Iles.

[framebaer]

- fraudproof... you're removing the reason d'etre of fountain pens, the wasi-sabi of writing.

 

The WABI-SABI kimosabe!

Edited March 21, 2008 by framebaer

[Deirdre]

Lets not forget Pelikan/Chartpak is not in the business selling you Noodlers, they want you to use their ink exclusively.

Good point that I'd overlooked and I think bears repeating.

[Juan in Andalucia]

Well, according to the Chartpak comment that started this thread, they're leaving you the option to use Skrip, Quink, Waterman, Montblanc... and of course Pelikan too.

[mrdavie]

What an amazing thread this was (is). As a newbie to the forum I thoroughly enjoyed (am enjoying) it. Two comments come out of my reading

1. I bought an M605 Dark Blue last year with an EF nib and could not get it to write until I sent it back to Fahrney's for repair!

2. I don't want my pen to hold a gallon of ink but I don't want to worry about when the cartridge is going to run out, expecially if the pen has a short cartridge in it. That's why I like the piston-filled pens with a clear section for observing ink volume. At least I can prepare for the inevitable. On cartridge pens I keep unscrewing the barrel to examine the cartridge and then can't tell what level the pen is at unless I wait for the ink to settle back to the bottom. So, there I sit, losing my train of thought, holding disassembled cap, pen and barrell, staring at the cartridge. What a nerd I am.

Edited March 21, 2008 by mrdavie

[djmaher]

I just obtained a used translucent blue M200, that seems to be in good working order, especially since I gave it the ole silicone treatment...

 

Anyway, in my pen, EF nib, Legal Lapis just pours out of the pen. Way too much, especially since Im writing on a Moleskine, which can be squirlly to begin with...

 

The pen was clean when I got it, but I did my own cleaning and found much more ink still in the nib...

 

I was, and still am afraid, there is some kind of trouble with the nib, like maybe it's damaged or something...

 

I switched to Black Noodlers, and was much more satisfied as the ink flow was not too bad, but still seems like way too much for me...

 

Honestly, I cant figure if its my pen or the ink or both??

 

I really want the permanence of Noodlers...PH neutral, waterproof...Seemingly no other options...

 

I really want a finer nib than the std. EF nib, although this nib doesnt seem scratchy...just too fat writing...

 

Sadly, I have a brand new black M200 I want to ink, but Im not sure what with....It also has a M nib, that I'm not so sure I'm gonna like....

 

HELPPPPP!!!!!!

 

D

[cmenice]

I use Noodler's pretty much exclusively. I have both Black and Legal Lapis and I use it with no problems. The legal lapis is in an F nib and it doesn't seem overly wet. It's a good wet and the line is perfect for a fine.

 

I'm not sure if it's your nib...could it be something else? Do you have a loupe? You could inspect the nib.

[Rapt]

PS: I've named my Fox Red/Black combination 'Abigail Rose,' after my sister-in-law who fancies herself a Gothic poet. It is a very brooding, angstful color. I feel like I'm writing with bottled hate. Try it next time you correspond with your ex-wife/landlord/mother-in-law. I might also suggest the name 'Dead Roses' for those of you who haven't had the pleasure of meeting my oh-so-self-serious sister-in-law.

I'd just suggest calling that color Emily.

And here I thought you meant this Emily

[AirExplosive]

So, I just got off the phone with Chartpak, discussing the M215 I sent in for nib exchange. Apparently, there was such a surprising amount of damage to both the Nib and the Barrel--both of which warranted replacement--that using any sort of ink like Noodler's Black again will void my warranty. (I assume, though, that this depends on a similar amount/type of damage occurring again.)

 

I'm quite shocked at this point.

 

[Deirdre]

So, I just got off the phone with Chartpak, discussing the M215 I sent in for nib exchange. Apparently, there was such a surprising amount of damage to both the Nib and the Barrel--both of which warranted replacement--that using any sort of ink like Noodler's Black again will void my warranty. (I assume, though, that this depends on a similar amount/type of damage occurring again.)

 

I'm quite shocked at this point.

I looked at your prior posts to see the pen, and I'm wondering if you were somehow sold a pen that already had some issues in addition to the nib being borked.

 

I don't think the ink you put in the pen is at most 1% of the issues it's got.

[limesally]

So, I just got off the phone with Chartpak, discussing the M215 I sent in for nib exchange. Apparently, there was such a surprising amount of damage to both the Nib and the Barrel--both of which warranted replacement--that using any sort of ink like Noodler's Black again will void my warranty. (I assume, though, that this depends on a similar amount/type of damage occurring again.)

 

I'm quite shocked at this point.

 

Wow, I am very surprised also. What sort of damage did they feel was specifically ink-related?

 

[AirExplosive]

... and I'm wondering if you were somehow sold a pen that already had some issues in addition to the nib being borked.

See, there's the thing. I'm kinda thinking that, but I brought it from FPH's brick and mortar store. Really, the only other thing I could think of that could have caused damage, apart from the ink or the predamaged scenario, is the use of one of these to run water through the nib (removed) and to flush the barrel. I fail to see, however, how water at pressures equal to that of, say, a squirt-gun, could cause enough damage as to necessitate a replacement.

 

Wow, I am very surprised also. What sort of damage did they feel was specifically ink-related?

Dunno, I forgot to ask for clarification, as I was already reeling over the "significant" and "replacement" aspects of that particular conversation. When I get the pen back from Chartpak, I'll ring them again and see what exactly was damaged.