Why pen companies move from 14k to 18k nibs?

[Juan in Andalucia]

  skybird said:

I hoid, that in Parkers case, the 14k nib is British and the 18k French for legal reasons. That reason is 14k is more practical and it needs to be 18k in France for recognition as gold. I love my 14k N Parker nibs.

The New Duo nibs are stamped 750 for 3/4s gold (18k I s'pose).

 

Yes, 750 means 750 parts of gold out of 1000 (18 parts out of 24). 585 is 585 parts of gold out of 1000 (14 out of 24)

 

I think sterling silver is marked 925 (which only leaves 75 parts out of 1000 of other metals)

 

BTW, most of my best writing nibs are 14k

 

Juan

 

[skybird]

 

My faves are the 51 61 and old Duo. Not sure what the content is - never really thought about it.

[Martius]

  Rapt said:

  Splicer said:

  penhound said:

Is it true that the more gold content a nib has, the stiffer the nib itself?

 

I resently got a VP Fermo with my first ever VP 18k gold nib and do not like it as well as the 14lk of the VP's I have bought on the US market. It just feels less flixible!

 

Just a guess, but I believe that the flexibility has to do with the shape and thickness more than the material, but that a harder metal can be made more flexible with less chance of bending or warping than a softer metal. The flipside is that a harder metal will be more likely to actually break.

 

The most flexible nibs are all made of steel (and they are all dip pen nibs). However, that may have more to do with the economics of making nibs that are more likely to be pushed to breaking point than the merits of the metal.

 

Its about the material properties.... Steel makes great springs which is what a flex nib is. So good in fact that there are grades of steel specifically made for spring making, and called "spring steel". Whereas gold is never used in the making of springs because it makes terrible ones. Gold is soft and ductile in it pure form, and so prone to bend rather than "flex". Steel on the other hand is tougher, stronger and springier than gold. Manufacturing a steel nib will take more energy, tool wear etc compared to gold, but the material cost is cents per pound rather than $1000 per oz. So the trade-off is worth while.

 

I'd say the best possible flex nibs could be made from steel nibs rather than gold ones, if you are purely concerned about flex performance. Once you start to throw in things like corrosion and overall life then other factors come into play.

 

I would like to think that modern steel alloys can fight corrosion well enough to equal 14k gold and still have the supreme flex properties of steel. Some metallurgist should look into this; it could make fountain pens cheaper and better for the next generation of pen lovers (like myself).

 

Best,

Summer Greer

[murph]

  Martius said:

I would like to think that modern steel alloys can fight corrosion well enough to equal 14k gold and still have the supreme flex properties of steel. Some metallurgist should look into this; it could make fountain pens cheaper and better for the next generation of pen lovers (like myself).

 

Best,

Summer Greer

 

I doubt the manufacturers could make as much profit if they started making all nibs from steel. I also have my doubts as to making steel as corrosion resistant as gold, after all how often do you find iron in its natural state compared to all the gold? It's inherently less stable when compared to a noble metal.

Would you be willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for a pen with a steel nib? After all the price of the metal in the nib is often only a tiny fraction of the manufacturing costs so changing from gold to steel wouldn't see the makers dropping their prices by much to maintain the same profit.

Edited April 9, 2008 by murph

[Shangas]

  skybird said:

My faves are the 51 61 and old Duo. Not sure what the content is - never really thought about it.

 

I think they're all 14kt.

[omasfan]

  Deirdre said:

In many countries, gold content less than 75% (18k) couldn't be marked as gold, ...

 

I think in order to call something solid gold in most European countries it needs to contain 14k of gold(or 585 respectively). I wonder if there is one single country that requires 18k. I don't know of any but maybe someone knows more about this...

 

Having said this, I think the move to 18k is more about prestige and an unwritten new standard that the industry has established itself.

In the ballpoint age, many manufacturers don't care about flex because most people will want to press down on a fountain pen as they do with a ballpoint. There is no reason for penmakers not to upgrade to an 18k with a seemingly higher degree of "luxury" as the hoards of ballpoint-spoiled users don't care about the vintage characteristics of 14k.

I personally prefer 14k nibs too, but they are hard to find with some brands. You need to buy older production of some companies.

Edited April 10, 2008 by omasfan

[Deirdre]

  omasfan said:

I think in order to call something solid gold in most European countries it needs to contain 14k of gold(or 585 respectively). I wonder if there is one single country that requires 18k. I don't know of any but maybe someone knows more about this...

It appears the drop from 18k to 14k came with the adoption of certain EC standards. In France, you can hallmark anything 8k or above (in a diamond), but you only get the better hallmark (the rectangle with the half circles on the ends) for 18k.

 

I haven't found the Italian guidelines, and I'm not sure my Italian's good enough to understand them when I find them.

[omasfan]

Deirdre, you are right.

 

COmpare this:

http://www.gold.org.cfp.co.uk/assets/file/...20Caratages.pdf

 

It seems that 18k is the most common standard in many European countries.

[JJBlanche]

So, if you had the choice, and price wasn't a factor: M600 w/ 14K or M800 w/ 18K?

[jim3141uk]

  JJBlanche said:

So, if you had the choice, and price wasn't a factor: M600 w/ 14K or M800 w/ 18K?

 

Eeenie...Meeeniee...Mynieee...

 

I'm going to hazard a slight guess on this, and it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the softer metal is likely to GRADUALLY and microscopically wear down to an individual's grip and writing position. Whether this is desirable in a delicate instrument like a nib (and whether different writing pressures will adversely affect the overall shape of the nib over time) is beyond my understanding of nibs at present, but it's a molecular inevitability that if someone consistently holds an 18K pen nib the same way, it is going to feel like "theirs" faster than a 14K nib. Ipso facto the steel nib will hold it's form.

 

Thoughts? Ground-swell of mass uprising?

[Daosus]

There are just about two occasions when you are work-hardening your nib. The first is if you've sprung it. Of course, you've probably introduced a bunch of cracks and have permanently deformed the metal, so a bit of hardening is the least of your worries. The second is when you're adjusting for smoothness by pushing the tines up and down so they align. This is very minimal hardening, so it should not be a problem.