Baystate Blue Ruined My Yellow Lamy

[RitaCarbon]

What a heated discussion! If Baystale Blue is sold on e-bay right now, its price skyrockets while no one bids on plastic yellow pens anymore. By the way, I need some ink to write on plastic. Sounds that I have found exactly what I need.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[dcwaites]

Just another thought...

 

I hadn't realised that Noodlers was such a small outfit.

In this day, when many small companies are being smothered, or bought out and made to 'disappear', by multi-national corporations, these little guys need our support.

 

As well, the competition may get the big guys to improve their product...

 

Unfortunately, a limited range of Noodlers is brought into Australia, and the markup is substantial, which is why I want to buy direct from the States.

[southpaw]

I hope the stained Safari makes its way back to Nathan so he can play with it and figure out what happened.

Great idea. It might also be a good idea if anyone receiving the ink could see if it stains any junk pen parts they might have.

 

Stephen

 

 

I'll be happy to give it a try when mine arrives, but my dealer doesn't have it yet.

[jhazelwood]

Well after readign this I still want to try this ink. I am aware that some inks stain so this isnt a big surprise, however I wont try any vintage (if I had any ) pens with this. Nathan this is a great color, I tried Noodlers for the first time last week and I love it, especially Antietam /off topic

[mdblue]

Ammonia and water will sometimes darken it....it will laugh at alcohol - so don't bother with amodex for the removal from cotton or paper. However - it is very vulnerable to simple "common water" (a mixture of approximately 15% to 25% household bleach and plain tap water). You will see that it won't leave the paper with many things - but common water and bleach make it vanish almost within an instant. There will not even be a remnant after treatment with bleach upon most paper grades...and it will also eventually fade before strong UV light. This is NOT an eternal or bulletproof ink.

 

 

Hundreds of pen users asked over and over again...."Can you make an ink with a more vibrant blue color that resists water once dried upon the paper and keep the cost down?". Many of those people who have written with that basic request are right here on FPN. "Baystate Blue" is just such an ink - it is so vibrant that on some paper grades the contrast is dramatic enough to stun the eyes - and the ink does not cost a penny more than any standard Noodler's color. The history of such a color is extensive - but always on the acid side....this is not an acid ink, BUT it also should NOT be mixed with other Noodler's colors or any other inks. Sometimes it mixes well...but as anyone can see by some posts online it is best to say "DON'T MIX IT" or risk somebody posting "I hate this new concept because it can't mix with everything...etc...". It should also be stressed that if you are hostile to new inks, new concepts in inks...and desire a weak ink akin to food coloring....please do not buy Baystate Blue. If you want an ink to mix with other inks - again...don't buy Baystate Blue. If you are among those who like new concepts in ink that expand the utility of the fountain pen so that it can remain a viable writing instrument for a long time to come....and you are among those people who have been asking for the greatest contrast and vibrance of blue inks with strong water resistance and general durability (though with a strategic weakness to "common water") - this ink was made for you.

 

A general note on the challenges of keeping an ink company's head above water:

Noodler's makes less than the post office and UPS on each bottle of ink sold - and the retailer also makes far more than Noodler's....but if they did not, the ink would not even be available to the public. We have barely survived and came within a single tax hike of moving from Massachusetts (one of the reasons for the label) or be rendered bankrupt as with so many other Massachusetts businesses. When we try to export to Paris, our product is slapped with heavy tariffs and taxes...but our competitors that are made in Paris enter the US virtually duty free....and retail for less here than they do in Paris. Then the EU wants not only Microsoft...but tiny ink companies...to divulge all their proprietary information about formulas to the public domain so that it can be freely counterfeited by competitors as far away as Shanghai. If the EU insists upon this - Noodler's will never again even reference an estimate of the European system of measure. All ink will be bottled by weight only - as it has been in the US since day one. By definition, this means our products will not be available in the EU. We have found greater freedom - ironically enough given our ongoing heated discussions with communists...in mainland China...than in the EU !!

 

One does not enter a 5,000+ year old business with more competition than any other for profit - but as somebody who grew up with fountain pens, one does seek to enhance the viability of the fountain pen through the expansion of its utility until it is recognized by the majority of writing instrument users as the most versatile and economically sound writing instrument known. A post like this hits harder than 1,000 positive remarks (one of the major reasons I bottle more and spend time online less).......so I simply ask - please try some "common water"....and if you are seeking a weak ink - just add food coloring to distilled water and call it a day. Noodler's will not reduce dye content and claim it's "safer" when the reality is the only thing that matters with ink IS dye content and its properties - pen users are buying an ink...not just bottled water. If you like an ink that has been "discounted" to 1/8th the dye content it once had in 1960 and made with the cheapest dye families with the least utility to the pen user (back in 1960 fountain pen inks were preferred to the alternatives - as ball pen ink vanishes in seconds before simple rubbing alcohol and acetone as well as after a few days in the sun)...there are other companies that make a product you'll like.

 

Virtually all Noodler's Inks are pH neutral and can rinse with plain tap water - Baystate Blue in general can rinse with plain tap water too....but if you must remove it from paper or some fabric, try common water - which also rinses pens well too (though as a rule: always rinse the pen with tap water if you have used a common water rinse). Baystate Blue is NOT pH neutral...and this is clearly stated on the label - it is on the alkaline side of neutral.

 

If there is a return rate that reaches 3% on any color - it will be halted. This includes Baystate Blue (though so little has been produced - and so little is available, that this point is likely moot). It should be noted that there are now far more colors in Asia than in North America - a customer in China has even had Noodler's formulate multi-weight inks including the color "Panda" (white on top, black on the bottom) and "Cherry Blossom" (white on top, bright red on the bottom) that write with mixed color lines and sometimes stripes - they remain apart because the dye families are of divergent weights and properties and do not mix...remaining separate in the bottle with a fine line of demarcation between the two that can be seen through the glass. Four divergent weight inks were test marketed in Canada, New York, Sweden, and Germany - that had these properties....though the return rate was not bad, the lack interest in such a concept was notable. The concept was requested in China - and is desired there...a dramatic difference between markets regarding new concepts in fountain pen inks. Also notable, the return rate there is 0%. The risks for new ink concepts are high - any one such risk can bankrupt a small ink company in the blink of an eye - and as a result the most tolerant market is more likely to have a greater variety of ink concepts in the end.

 

As a result of two comments - given that only 10 bottles at Swisher generated them - if there are more in this vein, then Baystate Blue will truly be limited. It is a vintage style ink (as stated on the label) and apparently some people in the market expect a post-1960 ink only. It is easier to halt a color while at ten bottles than later. Unfortunately, it seems the vast majority of people who have tried this color elsewhere truly love it and have said so (the depth, contrast, brilliance, and properties...as well as cost) - but we are too small a company to take many hits, even 3%.

 

Thank you for reading...

 

Back to the ink - which is only being made for a smile....my apologies for any frowns regardless of the reason.

Thank you NT for clarifying the solution and providing terrific customer service like this when the main-stream ink companies don't even bother to return an email.

..I've ordered the ink myself from Swishers and still waiting for it..

I think both Bexley/HL and NT are doing wonderful things to the FP community in general. Both of them are stretching the limits and are exploring newer options to make more choices available to the public.

Thank you Nathan...

[kiavonne]

...

 

As a result of two comments - given that only 10 bottles at Swisher generated them - if there are more in this vein, then Baystate Blue will truly be limited. It is a vintage style ink (as stated on the label) and apparently some people in the market expect a post-1960 ink only. It is easier to halt a color while at ten bottles than later. Unfortunately, it seems the vast majority of people who have tried this color elsewhere truly love it and have said so (the depth, contrast, brilliance, and properties...as well as cost) - but we are too small a company to take many hits, even 3%.

 

Thank you for reading...

 

Back to the ink - which is only being made for a smile....my apologies for any frowns regardless of the reason.

 

 

Don't you dare stop making this ink or any other just because it "is only being made for a smile!" I just converted a co-worker today not only to FP's, but to your inks as well because she likes the way your mind works when coming up with these inks! She is getting a pen full of Baystate Blue from me tomorrow, and she's excited to start using it. I've already warned her about possible staining, but she's fully aware of how stuff like that goes, as she does custom fabric painting, as well.

 

[Red Devils forever]

Some random thoughts on said subject:

 

BSB stains - get a Lamy (with a good ole y - not i...) Vista just for blues....

BSB stains - make your own pen - who cares if it stains then???

BSB stains - get a Preppy ($3 from Pendemonium - hell, get 5 for $12!!)

 

 

And my first reaction upon seeing this new color - I hope the FPN blue has this much vibrancy when it makes its long awaited world wide appearence....

 

Peace and happy writin'!!

Mike

[tcheuchter]

I don't want to add to any misunderstanding but I found the Original poster's post very helpful. It is important that such things are brought up and that damage can be averted from other fellow FPN's pens. This is not an onslaught against Noodler's but I think that it is important that such things are made public in an objective and hatred-free way. The way, the OP described the problem, the ink is definitely flawed to me. This just shouldn't happen with a robust and reliable everyday pen like the Lamy.

Agreed, mate. Thank you to the first poster for starting the thread. Pity no warning was issued on the bottle. Now nonblue Lamys and many other pens have been spared!!!

[GirchyGirchy]

And my first reaction upon seeing this new color - I hope the FPN blue has this much vibrancy when it makes its long awaited world wide appearence....

I think Nathan was tired of waiting on FPN to decide what the heck it wanted, so he marketed the blue as Baystate instead.

[Ghost Plane]

It's certainly the color I was fumbling to describe

[Viseguy]

It's sad when a valued pen get stained, or dropped, or lost, or any number of other bad things that can happen to a pen. But I must confess that I have little sympathy for the notion that an ink maker ought to warn customers that his (or her, or its) ink may stain a pen or anything else. Ink is dye, dye stains! It's a risk we all take every time we put dye-laden liquid in a light-colored pen. Should the ink maker really be required to test his product with every brand of pen and print a warning? What other warnings should there be? Do not drink. Do not splatter. Caution, contents are inky. Where would it end?

 

I mean no disrespect for Sam or those who expressed sympathy for him, truly I don't. Yes, a stain is a pain. But to blame the ink maker for not warning about it -- I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

[SamCapote]

It seems that one good thing about this post is it brought more attention and demand for this ink, which is always a good thing as it is a lovely blue color that I look forward to using in another dark pen. It also gave people a chance to hear how narrow Noodler's profit margin is--in terms of appreciating the range of their products.

 

FYI, this was my maiden voyage of this yellow pen. I was saving it for a special new ink, so it was brand new out of the box....not exposed to anything. I think if Nathan (or anyone else) wants to see what happened, they can buy a yellow Lamy. They are not that expensive. I didn't care about the sink, because the nice thing about the Corinne fake marble, if necessary--you can sand it down and the same colors will remain. I only mentioned that because I have put all of my previous 30+ inks (10-12 of which are Noodler's Bulletproof or Near-Bulletproof) in this highly polished sink, but only Baystate stained it (instantly).

 

I also would not have expected a quality name brand ink to dramatically stain a Lamy plastic pen almost instantly. I could have manually filled the converter, or just used a darker pen. I am aware that inks are a dye, and dye's stain things. The thing for people to be aware of is the degree of this ink's staining power, IMHO is quite unique, and to be careful with what you let it contact. I believe when more people compare it to other inks, they will see there is something unique with its staining profile beyond typical inks...even bulletproof inks...deserving a special warning. I again note that Nathan's suggested bleach cleaning did not work on the pen.

 

I hope everyone who wants this ink can get it. I highly recommend the color. You can see it contrasted in my digital image in first post to my other favorite blue, DC Supershow.

[shookfoil]

Anybody know of any other stockists that might consider posting across the Pacific for a reasonable cost?

 

Pendemonium ships overseas - beautifully packaged, reasonable cost, swift service. Usual disclaimer - no relationship, just a happy customer, who is also planning on buying this gorgeous colour.

 

 

[Eternally Noodling]

It's sad when a valued pen get stained, or dropped, or lost, or any number of other bad things that can happen to a pen. But I must confess that I have little sympathy for the notion that an ink maker ought to warn customers that his (or her, or its) ink may stain a pen or anything else. Ink is dye, dye stains! It's a risk we all take every time we put dye-laden liquid in a light-colored pen. Should the ink maker really be required to test his product with every brand of pen and print a warning? What other warnings should there be? Do not drink. Do not splatter. Caution, contents are inky. Where would it end?

 

I mean no disrespect for Sam or those who expressed sympathy for him, truly I don't. Yes, a stain is a pain. But to blame the ink maker for not warning about it -- I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

 

There was extensive testing on many plastics. I don't have every new pen plastic in stock - though I do have extensive vintage plastics (advisory:do not permit casein to touch water based anything). The comment about warnings hit home - you see, one of the first Noodler's labels had used all the standard warnings about a water based product and then what it could stain (think...fabrics, etc..) - that label eventually became a 3 page folded insert. A lawyer friend of mine let me in on a secret: "...every judge in America knows that ink stains, afterall...that is what it is supposed to do." I still always feel that doing business in America today is like walking on broken glass - any moment, in an instant...you and your efforts can bleed to death for even a minor misstep.

 

If Baystate continues it will be with a label adjustment (only one retailer is thinking about dropping it because he "does not like any controversy" - and he won't be sold anymore if he does drop it - everyone else is upset that I thought of dropping it - some even angry....and your e-mails are so vastly in favor of maintaining it - not one negative...that it will be maintained). Any suggestions for a label adjustment beyond listing it as... a vintage replica ink and unlike every other Noodler's ink...even with a divergent pH - as has already been stated upon the label? I thought my posting notified people this was a vintage ink in modern form...but really, truly...a genuine vintage style ink. Perhaps the label needs more? Something that is brief and will not take up more than a line....certainly not a three page insert label... We still have yet to replicate any staining here - and several retailers have also failed to replicate any staining - it has been noted that drying it on certain plastics made the use of common water more effective in its removal....but still no unremovable stains. If I get a yellow lamy like that one I'll certainly try to re-create a stain that is not removable with common water...well, I'll be getting some of that plastic sooner or later - already asking for a parts pen from sources. We'll see. The variables of the ink market are infinite...it really is impossible to please every pen user...so I'll keep trying to please 97%. ;-)

 

I'll have to expand the collection of modern plastics - but is it the ink company that must adjust a classic 1940's ink to modern plastics...or the pen manufacturer who should be making a modern plastic that evolves forward in its utility and durability instead of towards more stain prone plastics? Vegetal resins, casein, milk proteins?? My last comment...it does seem Noodler's always gets the finger point first...never a pen manufacturer for a poor feed or a nib that one needs soapy ink to write with as a thin ray of light cannot even pass through tines so tight that they appear fused together. Platinum makes that Preppy pen....and I've seen many of these pens now - each nib works, each feed is well etched...you can see light through each nib. If Platinum can make such a pen for the price they charge - low enough to enable Noodler's to include them at no additional charge with dropper bottles of ink...why are pens infinitely more costly encountering nibs that fail to even pass a thin ray of light through the tines? That Platinum pen can write as a fountain pen, a highlighter/marker...and even as a brush pen (if I can swing it, brush pen tips will be included soon as well) - truly a versatile writing instrument...clear stain resistant barrel, and a massive ink capacity - well, we will not be giving away those yellow pens with ink bottles anytime soon...sticking with the clear Platinums.....

Edited February 1, 2008 by Eternally Noodling

[chrisc]

so after all of this I need to ask if the OP has a bottle of Baystate Blue for sale.

[captnemo]

so after all of this I need to ask if the OP has a bottle of Baystate Blue for sale.

 

Well, if you look at post #72 I think the answer is no.

[fjf]

I just ordered a bottle from ebay. If this ink is as advertised (a vibrant and nice waterproof blue) it will become my default blue. I can live without a yellow lamy. After all, it is a girly pen

[Tweel]

I felt I owed it to Nathan to see what happened using his "common water" (a term I never heard before)...

That's a new one on me, too.

so I just went up to the local convenience mart and bought a small bottle of Clorox Bleach. I mixed approximately 20% with water as he suggested.

 

Perhaps if I soaked the entire pen piece for a lengthy time there would be some effect, but I have a concern of the bleach oxidation damage on the plastic/nib/feed if used for a longer time. I don't know one way or the other if this is a safe mixture to do an extended soak with a pen.

It's not safe, because bleach, even diluted, can eat metal -- for example, turning the "iridium" into a rough black nubbin.

 

-- Brian

 

Edited to fix a typo.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Tweel

[Ghost Plane]

Maybe: "Warning, May Stain Light Colored Pens" would do it?

[cmenice]

Maybe: "Warning, May Stain Light Colored Pens" would do it?

 

I'm partial to "Warning, ink may stain anything."

 

I don't care. I'm still going to use it.

 

I'm waiting on Baystate so I can finish my review of Upper Ganges Blue and Baystate together. Upper Ganges part is virtually complete. And yes, this review is in similar vein to my Heart of Darkness and Luxury Blue reviews.

 

Edit: If no parties are offended, could I have the liberty to create a cartoon out of this? It's absolutely wonderful comedic drama. And no I'm not discounting anyone's feelings.

Edited February 1, 2008 by cmenice