Baystate Blue Ruined My Yellow Lamy

[OldGriz]

Is all this the reason why Baystate Blue cannot be ordered at Swisherpens anymore now? That's a shame, as I would really have liked to try this ink. Does anyone know where people can still buy it?

(I still think it's good that this thread was posted and we were all alerted to the staining of this ink as well as the way to remove it, though.)

 

Thanks

Nellie

 

PS.: SamCapote, I am very curious to know if your stains will come off with bleach and water, so it would be very nice if you could let us know.

 

Pear Tree Pens has it... that is where I am getting mine...

[kiavonne]

Is all this the reason why Baystate Blue cannot be ordered at Swisherpens anymore now? That's a shame, as I would really have liked to try this ink. Does anyone know where people can still buy it?

(I still think it's good that this thread was posted and we were all alerted to the staining of this ink as well as the way to remove it, though.)

 

Thanks

Nellie

 

PS.: SamCapote, I am very curious to know if your stains will come off with bleach and water, so it would be very nice if you could let us know.

 

Pear Tree Pens has it... that is where I am getting mine...

 

 

It really is too bad if Baystate will be limited. I really like the ink. I think I will use it exclusively in my Lamy's, using a syringe and refilled cartridges. I guess I'll have to use it sparingly, if I want it to last for a little while.

 

As with all things, it is easier to berate than to praise. It's easy to get caught up, and easy to get let down on the other side, too. It is our nature, and we have a right to feel how we feel, one way or another. I'm happy to see all opinions here, it gives me an opportunity to see both sides. I've made both good and bad decisions this way, but they were my decisions - even though based on others' opinions.

 

Thank you for all your opinions. I appreciate them.

 

[Ghost Plane]

It's nice to get an explanation from the maker AND cool to get the recipe for the common water.

[azeitona]

It really is too bad if Baystate will be limited. I really like the ink.

I can only second this. I was hoping it would some day find its way to TWD, because of shipping costs to Europe, but now I begin to doubt it.

 

JO

[Lloyd]

Firstly, I need to emphasize that I think the world of Nathan. He gives his heart & soul to the FP community with very little acknowledgement. Many FP users couldn't rely on their pens if not for his durable inks. Now...

 

As for departing from "his gospel" (your words, not his) of what an ink needs to be, this ink was developed due to input and requests from customers...

I may have referred to this as "his gospel" but these passages that Nathan penned:

 

"I'll also note how certain of the very same inks that rinse so quickly out of paper do NOT rinse quickly off plastic - test them on plastic sheets for yourself. This has always struck me as idiotic. Ink should be very durable once on paper, and rinse off plastic. Test it on sheet plastic...apply some on plastic from all brands and let it sit in the sun - then spray the sheets with a garden hose. Try sheet rubber as well. "

 

"The issue has been one of the founding beacons to Noodler’s Ink, as every ink we make has a neutral pH** — absolutely neutral without exception."

 

certainly sounds as if these are rules that he feels/felt all inks should abide by.

 

 

[captnemo]

Well I'm a huge fan of Noodlers inks and this staining glitch with one particular ink does not change my opinion. The staining danger that I'm careful about is reds or any ink that contains red dye, no matter who the maker is.

[QM2]

Baystate Blue is not the normal formula configuration that Nathan uses in his other inks...

Therefore I feel you are all doing him a great dis-service by comparing it to the other inks in the Noodlers line and basing your assumptions on the statement made about the other ink formulations.

 

I love Noodler's inks, cannot live without them. I use Noodler's almost exclusively. I admire what NT is doing beyond words, and would personally volunteer my time to help him keep his company in business.

 

I think the problems, and the resultant image-damaging exclamations that occasionally come from some customers (let's face it, once Swisher has been called with complaints, the damage is done, even if later the customer figures out how to clean his pen) have mostly to do with mis-communications and lack of anticipation of target audience expertise. Yes, the Baystate Blue bottle says that this formula is different, and more like a vintage ink. But does this mean anything to a customer who is not an ink or FP expert? No. The average customer must be told: "Will stain plastic. Pleas use X to remove." And then there will be no complaints, no hysterical posts that cannot be retracted. Same with warning labels about the thicker inks, such as the El Lawrence: "this ink is thicker than average. may clog some pens. to avoid, dillute ith X% water". Problem solved; no more monthly posts, like clockwork, complaining that "Oh My God, I bought El Lawrence and it doesn't flow!"

 

I think it will benefit both Noodlers and the customers if information about "what kind of ink this is and what it will do to your pen" is more readily available, and in layman's terms.

 

This is not a complaint AGAINST Noodlers. Rather the opposite: it is a strategy to limit damaging and misleading complaints!

 

Because Noodler's has so many colors to try and new products constantly coming out, people are simply more likely to try different and unusual inks by them than by other companies. That is why, an impression is created that there are "more things wrong" with Noodlers. But in reality, it is simply statistically rigged that people will run into differently-behaving Noodler's. You don't see posts about dozens of people constantly trying out different Quink, or MB, or Sheaffer colors, do you? Hence the supposed lack of problems!

 

The whole point of Noodlers is that there are many different colors with MANY DIFFERENT PROPERTIES, MEANT FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES. Customers should be aware of that, and respond appropriately. It is up to the customers to respond appropriately, but it is up to Noodler's to make them aware.

 

QM2

Edited January 31, 2008 by QM2

[SamCapote]

I started this topic, and I will clarifiy a few things. First, as I expected, Swisher readily agreed to send me a replacement Lamy Yellow pen, so that alone resolves my issue. They apparently have had other people contacting them with the same issue, but they only had an initial order of 10 bottles, of which I ordered two. They expressed a concern that this ink may damage a light colored vintage ($$$) pen which would be a much more significant issue.

 

Secondly, I am ONLY objecting to the fact that there was no warning given with the product that it may stain the plastic of a fountain pen. I still regard myself as a relatively inexperienced fountain pen user, despite having about 35 different inks, and about 18 fountain pens. I do not feel it is incumbent upon a customer buying a bottle of ink at a retail establishment to first go and research everything that could go wrong on some website. I believe a product that can cause out of the ordinary problems like I described should be included with the product.

 

I have always said in my posts about this staining of my pen that I love the Baystate Blue color, so that is not the issue. I also again point out that NONE of the other eternal/waterproof/permanent fountain pen inks stained the fake marble in my sink, but this Baystate Blue did instantly. I put a generous amount of "Soft Scrub With Bleach" on that sink stain and after letting it sit for a full minute, there was no effect.

 

I only removed the stain from the sink by vigorous scrubbing with the Soft Scrub, and mainly using the Scotch green abrasive side of the sponge. I don't have a bottle of bleach in the house (with children), so I cannot verify if that would work, but the Soft Scrub with Bleach did nothing on the sink stain.

 

There is a certain level of product responsibility on the seller when something behaves so differently from what one is used to. I also don't know how to contact Nathan, or even find posts by him. What is his FPN user name?

[captnemo]

There is a certain level of product responsibility on the seller when something behaves so differently from what one is used to. I also don't know how to contact Nathan, or even find posts by him. What is his FPN user name?

 

He's right up above you in post #16 in this thread.

[SamCapote]

Baystate Blue is not the normal formula configuration that Nathan uses in his other inks...

Therefore I feel you are all doing him a great dis-service by comparing it to the other inks in the Noodlers line and basing your assumptions on the statement made about the other ink formulations.

 

I love Noodler's inks, cannot live without them. I use Noodler's almost exclusively. I admire what NT is doing beyond words, and would personally volunteer my time to help him keep his company in business.

 

I think the problems, and the resultant image-damaging exclamations that occasionally come from some customers (let's face it, once Swisher has been called with complaints, the damage is done, even if later the customer figures out how to clean his pen) have mostly to do with mis-communications and lack of anticipation of target audience expertise. Yes, the Baystate Blue bottle says that this formula is different, and more like a vintage ink. But does this mean anything to a customer who is not an ink or FP expert? No. The average customer must be told: "Will stain plastic. Pleas use X to remove." And then there will be no complaints, no hysterical posts that cannot be retracted. Same with warning labels about the thicker inks, such as the El Lawrence: "this ink is thicker than average. may clog some pens. to avoid, dillute ith X% water". Problem solved; no more monthly posts, like clockwork, complaining that "Oh My God, I bought El Lawrence and it doesn't flow!"

 

I think it will benefit both Noodlers and the customers if information about "what kind of ink this is and what it will do to your pen" is more readily available, and in layman's terms.

 

This is not a complaint AGAINST Noodlers. Rather the opposite: it is a strategy to limit damaging and misleading complaints!

 

Because Noodler's has so many colors to try and new products constantly coming out, people are simply more likely to try different and unusual inks by them than by other companies. That is why, an impression is created that there are "more things wrong" with Noodlers. But in reality, it is simply statistically rigged that people will run into differently-behaving Noodler's. You don't see posts about dozens of people constantly trying out different Quink, or MB, or Sheaffer colors, do you? Hence the supposed lack of problems!

 

The whole point of Noodlers is that there are many different colors with MANY DIFFERENT PROPERTIES, MEANT FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES. Customers should be aware of that, and respond appropriately. It is up to the customers to respond appropriately, but it is up to Noodler's to make them aware.

 

QM2

Listen dude, if any of what I just highlighted in RED is directed at me, you are way out of line. For your majesty's information, there is IN FACT, NOTHING WRITTEN ON THE BAYSTATE BLUE BOTTLE, LABEL, or BOX that would indicate any potential problems. Got it? Nothing!!! You want me to take a closeup digital picture of the bottle and package ????

 

This is a simple matter of there being ABSOLUTELY NO NOTICE either at Swisher's site where I bought it, or with the product that this could have happened. My comments and photos, and genuine anger are not hysterical reactions, and I tried my best to simply state the facts. Don't now use my case of warning what can happen as a soapbox to trash people like me. I resent your comments for doing that.

 

I also love Noodlers ink, and I will continue using it. I have not found a way to remove the stains on this pen, and I should not have to go out and buy a bottle of bleach just to clean the ink off a new pen when I had no warning this would happen.

 

Edit: Now that I see who Nathan is (not sure why he doesn't sign his posts as Nathan) I may go out and buy a bottle of bleach to see what happens with this pen. For everyone's awareness (including Nathan), on the right side of the label it says "approx 8-9 pH range" That did not mean anything to me. I don't know what pH any ink is, or what that was supposed to have meant. It is not my intention to cause harm to Nathan, or Noodlers, or Swisher Pens. While I understand Nathan's posting that this negative thread will cause a problem, I believe it will result in Noodler's and various ink retailers giving a head's up warning WITH the product that something like this could have happened.

 

Nathan, I do not honestly believe that hearing about the tenuous financial and profit margins of Noodlers in response to my reporting that this ink did this to the yellow Lamy is a healthy response. This was not an attack on the Noodler's line of inks, nor Noodler's innovation, reputation, or contribution to the pen community. It was ONLY ever about one lovely colored ink staining the yellow plastic barrel of a common fountain pen, with no warning this could happen. Period.

Edited January 31, 2008 by SamCapote

[OldGriz]

Baystate Blue is not the normal formula configuration that Nathan uses in his other inks...

Therefore I feel you are all doing him a great dis-service by comparing it to the other inks in the Noodlers line and basing your assumptions on the statement made about the other ink formulations.

 

I love Noodler's inks, cannot live without them. I use Noodler's almost exclusively. I admire what NT is doing beyond words, and would personally volunteer my time to help him keep his company in business.

 

I think the problems, and the resultant image-damaging exclamations that occasionally come from some customers (let's face it, once Swisher has been called with complaints, the damage is done, even if later the customer figures out how to clean his pen) have mostly to do with mis-communications and lack of anticipation of target audience expertise. Yes, the Baystate Blue bottle says that this formula is different, and more like a vintage ink. But does this mean anything to a customer who is not an ink or FP expert? No. The average customer must be told: "Will stain plastic. Pleas use X to remove." And then there will be no complaints, no hysterical posts that cannot be retracted. Same with warning labels about the thicker inks, such as the El Lawrence: "this ink is thicker than average. may clog some pens. to avoid, dillute ith X% water". Problem solved; no more monthly posts, like clockwork, complaining that "Oh My God, I bought El Lawrence and it doesn't flow!"

 

I think it will benefit both Noodlers and the customers if information about "what kind of ink this is and what it will do to your pen" is more readily available, and in layman's terms.

 

This is not a complaint AGAINST Noodlers. Rather the opposite: it is a strategy to limit damaging and misleading complaints!

 

Because Noodler's has so many colors to try and new products constantly coming out, people are simply more likely to try different and unusual inks by them than by other companies. That is why, an impression is created that there are "more things wrong" with Noodlers. But in reality, it is simply statistically rigged that people will run into differently-behaving Noodler's. You don't see posts about dozens of people constantly trying out different Quink, or MB, or Sheaffer colors, do you? Hence the supposed lack of problems!

 

The whole point of Noodlers is that there are many different colors with MANY DIFFERENT PROPERTIES, MEANT FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES. Customers should be aware of that, and respond appropriately. It is up to the customers to respond appropriately, but it is up to Noodler's to make them aware.

 

QM2

Listen dude, if any of what I just highlighted in RED is directed at me, you are way out of line. For your majesty's information, there is IN FACT, NOTHING WRITTEN ON THE BAYSTATE BLUE BOTTLE, LABEL, or BOX that would indicate any potential problems. Got it? Nothing!!! You want me to take a closeup digital picture of the bottle and package ????

 

This is a simple matter of there being ABSOLUTELY NO NOTICE either at Swisher's site where I bought it, or with the product that this could have happened. My comments and photos, and genuine anger are not hysterical reactions, and I tried my best to simply state the facts. Don't now use my case of warning what can happen as a soapbox to trash people like me. I resent your comments for doing that.

 

I also love Noodlers ink, and I will continue using it. I have not found a way to remove the stains on this pen, and I should not have to go out and buy a bottle of bleach just to clean the ink off a new pen when I had no warning this would happen.

 

First of all, I doubt the above statement was made about you... I believe it was made as a general statement about someone who might not be a fp or ink expert and that includes me.

Second, I doubt any of us appreciate yelling on the forum or accusations that you can't prove... such as attacking QM2....

Yes the ink was not what you expected and yes it did stain your Lamy... that is a fact and Nathan answered it... however, since you claim you don't know where to contact him, I doubt you read his answer...

As for you sink, that material is most likely porous and that is why it took the effort it did to remove the ink... it soaked into the imitation marble...

Imitation marble is generally a form of corian... I have done more than my share of working with corian and know how it can stain...

[QM2]

Listen dude, if any of what I just highlighted in RED is directed at me, you are way out of line. For your majesty's information, there is IN FACT, NOTHING WRITTEN ON THE BAYSTATE BLUE BOTTLE, LABEL, or BOX that would indicate any potential problems. Got it? Nothing!!! You want me to take a closeup digital picture of the bottle and package ????[/color][/size]

 

Um... I know, that was my point. There is nothing on the bottle that said how you were to handle that ink. NT should have put a lable, and then you would not have stained your pen in the first place. Re-read my post.

 

This is a simple matter of there being ABSOLUTELY NO NOTICE either at Swisher's site where I bought it, or with the product that this could have happened.

 

Yes. This is what I said, too.

 

My comments and photos, and genuine anger are not hysterical reactions, and I tried my best to simply state the facts. Don't now use my case of warning what can happen as a soapbox to trash people like me. I resent your comments for doing that.

 

I was absolutely not trashing you, or even speaking specifically of you. People sometimes have problems with Noodlers for exactly the reasons I stated, and when they do -- I am sorry, but they do post hysterical complaints quite often. I include myself in this, before I had things better figured out.

 

If the labeling/information existed, this problem would be avoided.

 

 

Best,

QM2

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2008 by QM2

[Titivillus]

-post removed by author-

Edited January 31, 2008 by Tytyvyllus

[I am not a number]

I still really want this ink.

[QM2]

I still really want this ink.

 

 

: ) )

 

 

 

Your and Tytyvyllus's posts always make my day

[SamCapote]

Listen dude, if any of what I just highlighted in RED is directed at me, you are way out of line. For your majesty's information, there is IN FACT, NOTHING WRITTEN ON THE BAYSTATE BLUE BOTTLE, LABEL, or BOX that would indicate any potential problems. Got it? Nothing!!! You want me to take a closeup digital picture of the bottle and package ????[/color][/size]

 

Um... I know, that was my point. There is nothing on the bottle that said how you were to handle that ink. NT should have put a lable, and then you would not have stained your pen in the first place. Re-read my post.

 

This is a simple matter of there being ABSOLUTELY NO NOTICE either at Swisher's site where I bought it, or with the product that this could have happened.

 

Yes. This is what I said, too.

 

My comments and photos, and genuine anger are not hysterical reactions, and I tried my best to simply state the facts. Don't now use my case of warning what can happen as a soapbox to trash people like me. I resent your comments for doing that.

 

I was absolutely not trashing you, or even speaking specifically of you. People sometimes have problems with Noodlers for exactly the reasons I stated, and when they do -- I am sorry, but they do post hysterical complaints quite often. I include myself in this, before I had things better figured out.

 

If the labeling/information existed, this problem would be avoided.

 

 

Best,

QM2

 

Thank you for clarifying. In part, you adding the descriptors "...damaging..." & "...hysterical posts...." in the same paragraph where you identified my having called Swishers, took this beyond being an anonymous characterization, and inferred my intention to do damage (to Noodlers) which was never the case. That's why I reacted the way I did.

 

I added an Edit additional message to Nathan in my previous post. I certainly wish him and Noodler's well. I also would highly recommend the beautiful color of this ink, and I will not be throwing it away. I will now use a dark Lamy pen dedicated to this ink. Just so you know, Nathan, I had almost used my Vintage Parker Duofold White Pearl & Black ($350) pen with this ink.

[HDoug]

Whoa everyone! FPN is a great place to learn things. So what I learned here is that Baystate is a bright waterproof blue that stains stuff so be careful. Filing that part away in my coconut. I would bet that vendors will put a little advisory on their descriptions soon for people who don't hang out here.

 

Oh, and thanks to all you early adopters of the ink. You are brave and you are fearless and the rest of us are appreciative of the risks you take.

 

Doug

[girlieg33k]

OK -- first, my condolences to Sam Capote on your Lamy Safari. I'm glad to hear that Swisher will be replacing it. This is good to know.

 

Now, that said -- I don't think this is an issue of whether Noodler's decided to veer from its previous "gospel" (quoting Lloyd -- though I happen to agree with him that this is most definitely a deviation from the company's stated positions in the past).

 

The issue here is whether the fountain pen community deserved a more fair and adequate warning about the staining properties of Baystate Blue. It had been noted, at least by Sam at Pendemonium, that Baystate Blue is "prone to staining." Bearing in mind that all inks are prone to stain (even Waterman Florida Blue will stain a pen if you leave it in a pen long enough) the question is: Is "prone to staining" sufficient warning in this instance?

 

Reasonable people will probably disagree whether that statement is sufficient, but my personal sense is what happened to the yellow Lamy Safari goes beyond "prone to staining." While it's true that people have been clamoring for a more vibrant blue coloured ink -- it should have gone unsaid that they would prefer that it not deface their pens.

 

Baystate Blue looks to be an interesting, standout colour. I, for one, would have been interested in testing the ink myself. What I would not have wanted was to be among test cases -- that 3% that Sam Capote is now part of -- to make discoveries that the manufacturer should have discovered on its own with minimal due diligence. If the company did know the extent this ink stains, then it should have put a fair and adequate warning on the bottle. (The OP has already noted that his bottle did not come with such a warning.)

 

I think the OP has stated his case quite well. I doff my cap to him for being a lot more patient than most people -- especially if Baystate Blue did that to one of their prized pens. Because of the OP's experience, we all benefit. We now can make a more informed decision on whether to buy this ink or not. And it's good to know that others are still willing to buy it. If it's pulled or made "limited," I'm certain those who still want it, will still be able to get it. At least we were warned by one customer's experience -- but that notice/warning should have come from the company, not a customer.

 

Oh, and as an aside to IANAN -- for sheer amusement, please kindly consider loading Baystate Blue (when and if you do get it) in the Stipula "Snappio" the instant you receive it back from Stipula.

Edited January 31, 2008 by girlieg33k

[QM2]

Thank you for clarifying. In part, you adding the descriptors "...damaging..." & "...hysterical posts...." in the same paragraph where you identified my having called Swishers, took this beyond being an anonymous characterization, and inferred my intention to do damage (to Noodlers) which was never the case. That's why I reacted the way I did.

 

Yes, I can see that -- safe to say I am short-circuiting in my social skills today. But believe it or not, even the "phoning Swisher's" comment was not about you specifically. Similar dramas play themselves out with some regularity, so my reference to the hysteria and damage was meta-historical. My only mistake this time was getting involved in the commentary.

 

 

QM2

 

 

[cmenice]

My Baystate Blue is in the mail. Can't wait. I've been looking for this blue.

 

I also had an issue with a Lamy Safari being stained, but it came "mostly" clean with tap water. I remember being a little irritated. Then I remembered how good the pen looked stained. It looked like a tool. Something I used and probably cherished. I love pens that have been "used". Makes them worth more to me.

 

I'll also add that I use Noodler's exclusively now after being continuously disappointed by other ink manufacturers.

 

Cheers! Let us know if that stain comes out.