Very water-soluble inks - for ink & wash.

[rorschah]

Here's kind of the opposite question from the usual - what inks are particularly water soluble, and remain so? This is for sort of out-there ink-and-wash technique - making a sketch, and then smearing the ink line with a wet brush/spit-covered finger to make water-color like shadings and wash.

 

I thought, say, Private Reserve, with its sort of smeary qualities, and its terrible performance on soak-tests, would wash well, but for some reason, the PR inks I've tried don't. The best so far: Pelikan Brilliant Black.

 

Suggestions?

 

-thi

[Pariah Zero]

Here's kind of the opposite question from the usual - what inks are particularly water soluble, and remain so? This is for sort of out-there ink-and-wash technique - making a sketch, and then smearing the ink line with a wet brush/spit-covered finger to make water-color like shadings and wash.

 

I thought, say, Private Reserve, with its sort of smeary qualities, and its terrible performance on soak-tests, would wash well, but for some reason, the PR inks I've tried don't. The best so far: Pelikan Brilliant Black.

Huh; the three PR inks I've tried (DC Electric Blue, UltraBlack Fast Dry, Dakota Red) all smear pretty easily for me... quite unintentionally in my case. If I place the palm of my hand on a written/dried portion, and wait a few seconds, I get ink transferred to my hands. When I put my hand down again, it transfers back to the paper. Which means if I hold the top portion of a page down (while I'm writing the bottom), I can get some unintended smearing.

 

Of course, that's using an entirely different method of smearing the ink than you've used...

[Nick A]

Old Sheaffer Washable Blue is, indeed, washable and comes out easily. I don't imagine any of the highly pigmented inks - PR, Noodlers, Penman would wash well. Old standbys - Skrip, Quink, Waterman, Pelikan, Herbin would all probably wash out easily. Red based colors, including browns, purples and some blacks will be hard to wash out.

 

For what you are doing, I imagine any ink would work though?

[Lloyd]

Many deep & rich blue inks are easy to wash off the page (unfortunately).

[Goodwhiskers]

Most of the big-brand blues are very washable (including both old and new Sheaffer Skrip Blue). If you want to use a lot of blue, you can get bulk-sized bottles of Pelikan Blue at Pendemonium.

[captnemo]

PR American Blue. Beautiful color but if you even say the word "water" near it, it's gone without a trace. :roflmho:

[limesally]

Here's kind of the opposite question from the usual - what inks are particularly water soluble, and remain so? This is for sort of out-there ink-and-wash technique - making a sketch, and then smearing the ink line with a wet brush/spit-covered finger to make water-color like shadings and wash.

 

I thought, say, Private Reserve, with its sort of smeary qualities, and its terrible performance on soak-tests, would wash well, but for some reason, the PR inks I've tried don't. The best so far: Pelikan Brilliant Black.

 

How much washing do you want? Whenever I've tried this, I've kind of wanted the original drawn ink line to stay in place, but the line to release just enough pigment for shaiding. So I don't need or want the ink to wash out completely.

 

I've tried it with Noodler's Aircorp blue-black, in which the black line stays, but you get this teal/turquoise wash that you can manipulate for shading.

 

I think it would be kind of fun to try with PR Chocolat, which leaves this red-maroon color behind. hey! I've got a wet brush and pen with PR Chocolat with me right now! I sense some procrastination coming on.

 

[rorschah]

 

So far what I've figured out is that smeary does not equal washy. PR smears easily in the first few seconds, but once it dries, it doesn't produce a water wash. (A lot of the time, what I'm doing is sketching for 10-20 minutes, then going back with a brush/finger and wetting.) Also, strangely, just because an ink disappears after a 5 minute soak doesn't make it easy to produce a wash.

 

I'm definitely going for a can-still-see-the-ink-line, wash-trailing effect. Mostly producing shadows, shading, stuff.

 

Huh! I'll try Aircorp. I love it, but since it was labelled near-bulletproof, I didn't try it. But it's only the black component that's bulletproof, right? That might be perfect. Thanks!

 

-thi

 

Here's kind of the opposite question from the usual - what inks are particularly water soluble, and remain so? This is for sort of out-there ink-and-wash technique - making a sketch, and then smearing the ink line with a wet brush/spit-covered finger to make water-color like shadings and wash.

 

I thought, say, Private Reserve, with its sort of smeary qualities, and its terrible performance on soak-tests, would wash well, but for some reason, the PR inks I've tried don't. The best so far: Pelikan Brilliant Black.

 

How much washing do you want? Whenever I've tried this, I've kind of wanted the original drawn ink line to stay in place, but the line to release just enough pigment for shaiding. So I don't need or want the ink to wash out completely.

 

I've tried it with Noodler's Aircorp blue-black, in which the black line stays, but you get this teal/turquoise wash that you can manipulate for shading.

 

I think it would be kind of fun to try with PR Chocolat, which leaves this red-maroon color behind. hey! I've got a wet brush and pen with PR Chocolat with me right now! I sense some procrastination coming on.

 

[limesally]

PR Chocolat seems OK. I did a quick (like, 5 min) sketch after I last posted, and then tried washing on the RH side just after the ink had dried. I then tried washing on the LH side about 3 hours later - the ink still lifted off pretty well. The main difference between washing right away and washing a few hours later is that you lose more of the original line if you do it sooner. I might blob some more water on it tomorrow to see if it still will lift - I suspect it will.

 

This is PR Chocolat (obviously), Pilot Prera F nib, in a moleskine ruled book. Not necessarily recommended, but it's what I had on hand.

Edited December 6, 2007 by limesally

[OboeJuan]

Nice sketch, Limesally. It caught my eye because I thought "Gee, that sure looks like my University..." then I remembered where you live. Doh!

 

Kath

[PAKMAN]

Waterman Florida Blue seems to be a very washable blue. At least it seemed to come out of everything after that little spilling incident...

[myles]

Lamy Black seems to just about completely wash away in water after it has initially dried. Maybe not directly what you were looking for Thi, but possibly you could put a second line on or inside an outline in some other ink then wet brush it?

 

I haven't tried the other Lamy colours.

 

Regards, Myles.

[limesally]

Nice sketch, Limesally. It caught my eye because I thought "Gee, that sure looks like my University..." then I remembered where you live. Doh!

 

Kath

 

Given how quickly I did this, and that it was mostly intended as an ink experiment, I am absolutely thrilled that it was recognizable! Thanks

Edited December 6, 2007 by limesally

[rorschah]

Wow, thanks limesally. That's exactly the sort of sketch I'm working at.

 

The PR Lake Placid Blue I have loaded doesn't wash nearly so nicely. Nor does Diamine Prussian Blue. But both Pelikans do...

 

The PR Chocolat washes beautifully. Nice revealed reds. Wonder if the Noodler's Red Black I have would do something like that...

 

I've been playing around with old-school ink sticks and brushes, China-style, too.

 

-thi

Edited December 6, 2007 by rorschah

[encephalartos]

Wow, thanks limesally. That's exactly the sort of sketch I'm working at.

 

The PR Lake Placid Blue I have loaded doesn't wash nearly so nicely. Nor does Diamine Prussian Blue. But both Pelikans do...

 

The PR Chocolat washes beautifully. Nice revealed reds. Wonder if the Noodler's Red Black I have would do something like that...

 

I've been playing around with old-school ink sticks and brushes, China-style, too.

 

-thi

 

If you want the lines to stay in place, you need something waterproof. In drawing classes that I have had, people used

dip pens (or stylographic/technical pens) and black India drawing ink (stuff with shellac that dries waterproof and

clogs fountain pens). With this, lines that are dry won't move. After lines that you want to stay are dry, you

add the wash over it. If you want monochrome grey, the wash is usually mixed by adding water to the same black

ink. If you want colored washes, then transparent watercolor paint would work. Just remember you can't play

around with this kind of drawing ink in fountain pens. Also, you want to keep drawing ink away from the really

good expensive watercolor brushes, too.