Filling a Sheaffer Snorkel

[Crobe]

I have just acquired a Scheaffer FP. It appears that to fill it, you unscrew a cap on the end and pull back a metal tube. After soaking the nib in water, a snorkel appeared from the feed.

 

I want to fill and refill a few times with water before I fill it with ink, but can't figure out the correct way to operate the filling mechanism. This is my first experience with this type pen.

 

Mike

Edited September 19, 2007 by TBPI

[Richard]

  TBPI said:

I ... can't figure out the correct way to operate the filling mechanism. This is my first experience with this type pen.

Instructions are on my Fountain Pen Filling Systems page.

 

The most important single pice of information is that you should never pull up the blind cap with the nib immersed in ink, water, or any other liquid. Doing so can suck the liquid into the pen's working parts.

[ArPharazon]

Question deleted . . . I found the answer is a later post in my search list! Edited September 28, 2007 by ArPharazon

[psfred]

Note that any Snorkel is at least 48 years old, and if not restored, is unlikely to work very well due to deteriorated seals and sac.

 

You should get a nice burst of bubbles when you press the TD tube down with the snorkel in the water. Wait at least ten second for the sac to re-expand, it's slow to fill and if you lift it out early, air rushes in instead of water or ink.

 

Pull the tube out again (over a sink, please) and you should get a small burp of ink as the sac expands and re-contracts inside the protector. Press down and you should get a good stream of ink -- in top shape, they will squirt at least 4 ft, the reason they were often banned from high schools in the '50s -- you can imagine what they were used for.

 

If you don't get a burst of bubbles, chances are the sac is petrifed, the o-ring in the barrel is leaking, and the nib seal is shot, and you will need to fix the pen.

 

If you bought it restored, it should work perfectly, holding almost a mL of ink -- if not, return for repair!

 

Peter

[Clancy]

 

 

  Richard said:

  TBPI said:

I ... can't figure out the correct way to operate the filling mechanism. This is my first experience with this type pen.

Instructions are on my Fountain Pen Filling Systems page.

 

The most important single pice of information is that you should never pull up the blind cap with the nib immersed in ink, water, or any other liquid. Doing so can suck the liquid into the pen's working parts.

 

 

Richard,

Thanks for that link with the concise instructions. Perfect!

 

Clancy

 

[Oldtimer]

If I undersand what is said here, the ink will flow up by itself and fill the sac?

 

- ull up cap in the air, wihout inmersing in ink

 

- push down and leave it there for 10 secs until the ink flows up

 

- Done!

 

Is this the correct interpretation?

 

I am looking into acquiring a Sheaffer with this system since what I like to have is different filling mechanisms.

 

Also. What would be the value of a Saratoga that has been retsored to working order?

[RMN]

  On 7/21/2014 at 5:28 PM, Oldtimer said:

If I undersand what is said here, the ink will flow up by itself and fill the sac?

 

- ull up cap in the air, wihout inmersing in ink

 

- with the shaft pulled out, put the snorkel (not the nob) in the ink

 

- push down and leave it there for 10 secs until the ink flows up

 

- Done!

 

Is this the correct interpretation?

 

I am looking into acquiring a Sheaffer with this system since what I like to have is different filling mechanisms.

 

Also. What would be the value of a Saratoga that has been retsored to working order?

 

See the above addition.

 

By pushing down the filler the air in the filler is compressed, which in turn pushes the air out of the sac.

On the end of the down-stroke a valve is operated, the compressed air flows out and the pressure normalises around the sac, making the sac take it's old form, expanding and thus sucking in the ink.

 

 

D.ick

[Ernst Bitterman]

The original instructions. Step two is not absolutely clear, but says "hold over ink" because there's often a little squirt emitted as the knob comes up. No putting in ink until step three.

[KBeezie]

A video I made in case some people just need to 'visualize' it, it's also important to wait for the sac to expand and compress from the pressure change since it's not a vac filler, and if the seals aren't good, it's going to take even more time to change to the pressure (if at all).

 

 

So even if the sac hasn't ruptured, the o-ring near the end of the pen, and the section connection need to be sealed or using that plunger back and forth isn't going to affect the sac at all (plus you could end up having a sac like one of my pens, solid as a rock so it doesn't move at all). If the seller doesn't state that the pen has been restored with a new sac and seal at the very least, then you'll want to look into getting it restored (Sean does all that plus body/nib polish and adjustment, plus 1 year warranty for $40.)

 

In a nutshell

 

1) Unscrew the blind cap, this extends the snorkel tube.

2) Hold the pen/tube over a vial of ink (or sink, or napkin, etc), the latter especially if you don't know what's in the pen already (in which case, clean/flush the pen first).

3) Pull the plunger at a normal to accelerated pace. (going slowly doesn't help)

4) wait about 5-10 seconds to allow for the sac to compress from the pressure change.

5) dip the snorkel tube into the ink.

6) Press down on the plunger (again if you do it slowly, it won't work so well).

7) wait about 5-10 seconds for the sac to expand from the pressure change (older sacs or 'working' unrestored may require up to 30 seconds).

8) Take the snorkel out of the ink, screw down the blind cap to retract the snorkel tube.

9) Start Writing.

 

The ink travels down the snorkel tube and exits out of the slit to the feed directly, so there's no point in wiping the snorkel tube before retracting. (That tube is the only way ink gets in or out of the sac, there is no other access). Also the alignment of the snorkel tube is important for the best flow (the little slit needs to face up towards the nib).

Edited July 21, 2014 by KBeezie

[Estott]

  On 7/21/2014 at 5:28 PM, Oldtimer said:

If I undersand what is said here, the ink will flow up by itself and fill the sac?

 

- ull up cap in the air, wihout inmersing in ink

 

- push down and leave it there for 10 secs until the ink flows up

 

- Done!

 

Is this the correct interpretation?

 

I am looking into acquiring a Sheaffer with this system since what I like to have is different filling mechanisms.

 

Also. What would be the value of a Saratoga that has been retsored to working order?

You are describing the Touchdown filling system - the Snorkel is the same except you must turn the blind cap to extend the snorkel before pulling out the tube.

A restored Saratoga is not going to be of great value. This is not a slight on the quality of the pen, but it was one of Sheaffer's mid priced models and sold very well- you can buy a nice unrestored one dirt cheap. Stepping up to the fancier models with triumph nibs and 14k cap bands will cost a few bucks more but even those are plentiful.

[KBeezie]

  On 7/21/2014 at 8:46 PM, Estott said:

You are describing the Touchdown filling system - the Snorkel is the same except you must turn the blind cap to extend the snorkel before pulling out the tube.

A restored Saratoga is not going to be of great value. This is not a slight on the quality of the pen, but it was one of Sheaffer's mid priced models and sold very well- you can buy a nice unrestored one dirt cheap. Stepping up to the fancier models with triumph nibs and 14k cap bands will cost a few bucks more but even those are plentiful.

Not to mention the Touchdowns seem a bit easier to restore (ie: can get a 'touchdown repair kit' from FountainPenSacs.com for about $10). The 'guts' are also a bit simpler than the snorkel, being less intimidating to replace the sac and o-ring yourself.

 

I'm waiting on my sac/o-ring to arrive so I can fix up this 'white dot' Touchdown Statesman in Persian Blue (the o-ring, not shown is still in the barrel):

 

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/touchdown_wd/prework_disassembled.jpg

 

Course after that above shot I went ahead and polished up the barrel, cap and end cap, and will be soaking the feed/section before the sac arrives just in case there's anything left over.

 

The above is a lot less scary to me than a PFM's Guts:

 

http://cigarboxpenstorage.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/pfm-disassembled.jpg

 

Both work nearly identical in regards to filling. The seal at the section/barrel connection, and the o-ring near the back of the barrel (which the plunger glides against) creates a static pressure around the sac which air doesn't escape from, or enter into. As a result of pulling the plunger up you increase the 'space' around the sac and sac protector (which has holes in it), but without new air to fill that space the air pressure changes, causing the sac to compress as a result. Returning the plunger to it's original position normalizes it again, allowing the latex sac to expand again.

 

The main difference is the sac is connected directly to the section on a TD, where as on a Snorkel it's attached to just the snorkel tube. And then there's the spring to push the snorkel forward when you unscrew the blindcap, hence why the plunger and sac protector is threaded on the snorkel models, it rides along then when it's completely extended it can be freely pulled back.

 

I love the convenience of not having to wipe the snorkel, but it's not something I personally would want to work on myself.

 

"A restored Saratoga is not going to be of great value"

Depends on whose hand it is in.

Edited July 21, 2014 by KBeezie

[RMN]

Good video, Karl

 

 

D.ick

[Komitadjie]

Dumb question: I understand the nib knock-out block and punch to remove the feed and nib from the section, no problem there. Support it all around, and tap gently.

 

It's AFTER that where I have a question... how the heck do I get it back *in*? I've never seen that procedure described. Is it as simple as orienting things correctly, and pressing them back into the front of the section with finger pressure?

[KBeezie]

  On 7/21/2014 at 9:08 PM, RMN said:

Good video, Karl

 

 

D.ick

It was my second attempt... the first attempt my aim was off, missing the sample vial and just a blob all over the grey stone slab (hence the change to the reddish one while I cleaned off the grey one).

 

It's not quite so easy doing it when you're trying to do it with arms outstretched and a camera just under your chin.

 

  On 7/21/2014 at 9:21 PM, Komitadjie said:

Dumb question: I understand the nib knock-out block and punch to remove the feed and nib from the section, no problem there. Support it all around, and tap gently.

 

It's AFTER that where I have a question... how the heck do I get it back *in*? I've never seen that procedure described. Is it as simple as orienting things correctly, and pressing them back into the front of the section with finger pressure?

You need a knock-out block? Guessing we're talking bout the triumph/conical nib, I only messed with the open nibs of which all are just friction fit which required nothing more than just wiggling the nib and feed out, soaking if it's being stubborn. ( now I have to go ask Ray or Sean how they do it with a Conical.)

Edited July 21, 2014 by KBeezie

[Komitadjie]

Wow, ok, maybe I'm over-thinking the hell out of this, then. I'll just give it a shot with my fingers, and see what happens, then.

 

The knock-out block and punch came from Richard Binder's site in the take-down instructions for open nibs. He suggests not messing with the Triumph points unless you really have to.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Komitadjie

[KBeezie]

  On 7/21/2014 at 9:43 PM, Komitadjie said:

Wow, ok, maybe I'm over-thinking the hell out of this, then. I'll just give it a shot with my fingers, and see what happens, then.

 

The knock-out block and punch came from Richard Binder's site in the take-down instructions for open nibs. He suggests not messing with the Triumph points unless you really have to.

Ahh I see. I suppose if you needed to do everything all professional and correct, that would probably be considered the least risk way of doing it. But yea I just grab hold of both, and gently wiggle it out (not twist). But if it's been a while you probably have to soak the nib/feed/section to loosen it up a bit especially if there's quite a bit of dried ink in there.

 

But yea I've used my fingers for my Snorkel (... I only have one), Touchdown, Craftsman, Balance, etc with the open style nibs. Getting it back in can be a tiny bit of a pain though, I usually get the feed in first a little bit of the way, rotate it until it seems to be the loosest then slip the nib in and try to get both of them the rest of the way in.

 

I'm sure there's a trick with the snorkels, but I can't remember it off the top of my head, I just know that it works best if that little 'slit' on top of the snorkel tube is facing the bottom of the nib, and not away from it.

[Ernst Bitterman]

  On 7/21/2014 at 9:22 PM, KBeezie said:

 

 

You need a knock-out block? Guessing we're talking bout the triumph/conical nib, I only messed with the open nibs of which all are just friction fit which required nothing more than just wiggling the nib and feed out, soaking if it's being stubborn. ( now I have to go ask Ray or Sean how they do it with a Conical.)

 

You're presuming upon your luck doing it that way; the feeds of the open-point Sheaffers from... let's say 1942 (although I wouldn't be surprised if someone shouts "1934!") up to the Snorkels began LOOOOOOOVE to break about half-way along their length with wiggly extraction like that. I hope luck continues to support you, but I can't recommend it as policy.

[Komitadjie]

Well, making a knock out block is a complete non-issue, I do woodwork as a hobby, so I've got plenty of hardwood on hand, and a full array of forstner and brad-point bits. It's just re-installed by hand with finger-pressure, then?

[KBeezie]

  On 7/21/2014 at 10:42 PM, Ernst Bitterman said:

You're presuming upon your luck doing it that way; the feeds of the open-point Sheaffers from... let's say 1942 (although I wouldn't be surprised if someone shouts "1934!") up to the Snorkels began LOOOOOOOVE to break about half-way along their length with wiggly extraction like that. I hope luck continues to support you, but I can't recommend it as policy.

Well it helps to wiggle the nib out first, that makes it looser for the feed. Seems like twisting would cause more risk. Plus I'm not talking bout forceful wiggle, just a gentle one, takes a little more time, but eventually it gives. I do not make a habit of removing feed/nibs from the vintage sheaffers, since if I'm going to clean one between ink changes, the nib/feed stays in, since it's a pain to remove/re-seat to begin with, especially if I got the alignment just right and don't want to mess with it.

 

What's your ideal method of extraction since you deem that as ill-advised?

Edited July 21, 2014 by KBeezie

[Komitadjie]

Also, has anyone seen a guide to disassembly of the Triumph point? I'd rather avoid it, but one of the Imperials I'm restoring looks gunked-up enough that it may well be required. I've found that the actual nib unscrews with some care, but I've been afraid to take anything beyond that point without knowing what I'm likely to break.