If you love the Perkeo nib...

[Nightjar]

... can you suggest another current pen with similar writing feel?

At least as I experience it, the Perkeo nib is long and springy and toothy and wet, characterful in a way that is quite different to any other pen I've tried. I love the way it writes. Is there anything out there that's similar?

I prefer F or EF nibs, my handwriting is small. Other pens I've tried include Kaweco Sport (very nice, but not as nice) and Platinum Plaisir, Pilot Kakuno and Lamy Safari (all rather dull, in my book). I haven't tried any up-market pens, and I suspect that most will have nibs too smooth and rigid to please me...

 

Hope this is not a stupid question, and thanks...

[Dillo]

That's pretty interesting. It's a unique nib in a way because Bock does not sell that nib apart from a grip section, and the feed is a larger diameter than the Bock 060 in the Sport and a smaller diameter than the Bock 250.

 

You might want to try a pen with the Bock 250 in the same tip width as the Perkeo nib you have. Kaweco does have a few pens with this kind of nib, like the Elite and the Supra but I know that there are others from other makers. Some people call it (incorrectly) the Bock number 6, but Bock uses a three digit identifier and not a single digit one.

[AmandaW]

Yes! I love the Perkeo too. The Moleskine x Kaweco Collection is a Perkeo with gold plated nib and cap badge. It comes in blue, black and red. I cleaned off the foiling for a cleaner look.

 

[Nightjar]

Thank you Dillo and Amanda!

 

Yes Dillo I'll explore that, it's possible that a Supra or Original 250 with #5-250 nib in F or EF (or a Dia 2 fitted with Bock stock #6-180 or #6-076, again in F or EF) would be somehow similar. Or not, and £100ish is a lot to spend on the off-chance!

 

Thank you Amanda, I didn't know about that pen. A rebranded Perkeo as far as I can see, only available in M. Nice!

 

Meanwhile, since posting, I actually found another pen that I like as much as the Perkeo: a 1940s Waterman Taperite Citation, Canada-made, in fabulous working condition with fine nib. It writes beautifully, really beautifully!

 

It cost me less than £30, I feel very lucky: though I think exploring older Watermans more widely becomes a costly pastime. I guess I started getting interested in pens 80 years too late!

 

Thanks again for helpful replies!

 

 

[AmandaW]

4 hours ago, Nightjar said:

rebranded Perkeo as far as I can see, only available in M. Nice!

It's also available with a fine nib. A bit harder to find, but they are out there.

[Penguincollector]

  I’m glad you found your way to the Watermans,  @Nightjar! I was going to suggest a 52 of some sort. I have some 52 1/2V  ring tops, they were about $45-50 US each, and both write similarly to your description of the Perkeo. My regular 52 was about twice that amount, but if you’re not looking for flex, they aren’t as expensive.

[Nightjar]

Oh, thank you @AmandaW my bad, good to know!

 

@Penguincollector that's super-interesting, 52s now on my radar, and I will research the "1/2 V ringtops". [Quick googling suggests around £250 for good condition, yikes, but perhaps with time I'll find a bargain, or .... dream on... discover one in a thrift shop!]

 

Given that the Perkeo and the Taperite are very different nibs, perhaps (?) what I'm looking for is slight italic character, perhaps (?) related to smaller and/or flatter-sided nib bobble. Both pens give me a hard-to-describe sensation of "structuring my writing", in a similar but more subtle way to a full-on italic nib. I think that's maybe why I like them, mainly. Anyway, will keep exploring, thank you again!

Edited January 25 by Nightjar

[Azulado]

On 1/22/2025 at 11:49 PM, Dillo said:

That's pretty interesting. It's a unique nib in a way because Bock does not sell that nib apart from a grip section, and the feed is a larger diameter than the Bock 060 in the Sport and a smaller diameter than the Bock 250.

 

You might want to try a pen with the Bock 250 in the same tip width as the Perkeo nib you have. Kaweco does have a few pens with this kind of nib, like the Elite and the Supra but I know that there are others from other makers. Some people call it (incorrectly) the Bock number 6, but Bock uses a three digit identifier and not a single digit one.

Virtually everyone in the stylophile community claims that Jowo manufactures the Perkeo nib.
The Online College feed is very similar to that of the Perkeo. Online uses Jowo nibs.

[Dillo]

37 minutes ago, Azulado said:

Virtually everyone in the stylophile community claims that Jowo manufactures the Perkeo nib.
The Online College feed is very similar to that of the Perkeo. Online uses Jowo nibs.

 

The internal markings on the nib are very different from anything JoWo manufactures, and they are identical to the ones on the smaller Bock nibs. It is also a different shape and geometry from any JoWo nib I know of. In a similar vein, the nib grind itself on the tipping is similar to Bock's grinds and very much unlike the way JoWo grinds theirs.

 

The feeds don't have anything to do with the nibs and where they are made necessarily. You can pair different feeds with different nibs depending. There are multiple different feeds made for JoWo nibs and multiple different feeds for Bock nibs depending on where they source their feeds.

[Nightjar]

Haha, happy to have provoked this debate. I've just (visually) compared Perkeo F nib with stock Bock #6-180 EF. With disclaimer that I'm no expert: geometry seems VERY similar, but not identical (most evidently, the cut and bend at the shoulder are different). My non-expert guess would be that the Perkeo nib is made by Bock using a 180 starting pattern (or perhaps under Bock license by a Chinese manufacturer for Kaweco). The feeds are obviously different, and might come from Bock or elsewhere.

[Penguincollector]

4 hours ago, Nightjar said:

Oh, thank you @AmandaW my bad, good to know!

 

@Penguincollector that's super-interesting, 52s now on my radar, and I will research the "1/2 V ringtops". [Quick googling suggests around £250 for good condition, yikes, but perhaps with time I'll find a bargain, or .... dream on... discover one in a thrift shop!]

 

Given that the Perkeo and the Taperite are very different nibs, perhaps (?) what I'm looking for is slight italic character, perhaps (?) related to smaller and/or flatter-sided nib bobble. Both pens give me a hard-to-describe sensation of "structuring my writing", in a similar but more subtle way to a full-on italic nib. I think that's maybe why I like them, mainly. Anyway, will keep exploring, thank you again!

 
  Definitely have a look around, as I recently bought one for $45. I don’t think it’s a sumgai price, as the other one was in the same ballpark. 

[Azulado]

3 hours ago, Nightjar said:

My non-expert guess would be that the Perkeo nib is made by Bock using a 180 starting pattern (or perhaps under Bock license by a Chinese manufacturer for Kaweco)

This is a very risky statement because there are no indications that it can do so. The nib is marked “Germany”. It is not the same as “made in Germany”, but Kaweco is a company that is careful to show “made in China” on their metal cases. 

 

4 hours ago, Dillo said:

The feeds don't have anything to do with the nibs and where they are made necessarily.

I don't know if you have read the blog of Amadeus W. He worked in pen development for a major German company in the 1980s. In the chapter on nib development he explains that it is a very complex process, as any minor detail can affect the performance of the nib. It does not seem to me that the general trend is to buy parts from different suppliers and merrily put them together. If Online and Kaweco use the same feed, I doubt they use nibs from different brands. Hobbyists talk very blithely about nib compatibility. I don't have the same experience. A small difference in geometry often causes nibs to open up. In many cases, the matched nibs work, but the performance is not optimized. The fact that the curvature is different is already a problem. 

Now I wonder how the certainty that the Kaweco Perkeo uses Jowo started, even though the company traditionally uses Bock. The thing is that this claim is almost unanimous. The truth is that there is no evidence one way or the other. 
Many people know about Bock, and there are even videos of its facilities. But the Jowo factory in Berlin is a mystery. We know that they also manufacture components for electric guitars and that before reunification they were in the east. By this I mean that whatever is said about Jowo remains in the realm of conjecture. 
Another issue is that rarely do people from the industry participate in forums or YouTube channels. The information we do get is usually very sketchy. 
Because of issues of protecting trade secrets, even people in the industry would hardly say anything that could harm the brand they work or worked on. We do not know which company Amadeus W. worked for. 

Some interesting considerations by Amadeus W. on nibs:

https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/faq-frequently-questions-ask/fountain-pen-nibs-swapping-nib/

[Nightjar]

It was just my non-expert guess (explicitly labeled as such)... I really have no idea! Your very knowledgeable comments read with interest, thanks @Azulado 👍

[Azulado]

6 minutes ago, Nightjar said:

Fue solo una suposición mía de no experto (explícitamente etiquetada como tal)... ¡Realmente no tengo idea! Leí con interés sus comentarios muy informados, gracias@Azulado 👍

Your guess is not crazy. I just said it's risky, but this world of fountain pens is full of secrets and surely there are things that would astound us if we knew them. 😉

[Dillo]

I am aware of this Amadeus, and I have a good idea where he worked based on the knowledge that I have and the information he put out there. In any case, there are several companies that make feeds specifically for these nibs. These nibs in the Perkeo, as I have said earlier, are a very specific product that are made for very specific pens. Faber-Castell also uses these nibs and feeds in some of their pens.

 

I strongly doubt it's JoWo based on the curvature and shape of the nib itself and the other things I mentioned. I have been working in nibs for close to two decades. I can often identify certain makers quite positively by the marking they stamp in the nibs, the geometry of the nib body, and some of the other features that certain makers put on their nibs when they make them

 

I will not be replying to your comments or posts any longer @Azulado since you are so "expert" in these matters. There is enough misinformation in the pen world already out there, and all of these suppositions of where the Perkeo nib comes from has been from laypeople who have little involvement in industry or pen repair. The Perkeo nib is the same length as the JoWo 5, but the curvature and feed diameter is different. You can try to fit the nib in there, and it can work if installed with force, but the shape of the JoWo 5 compared to the nib in the Perkeo is quite different.

[lamarax]

Too much e-ink wasted for what is clearly a standard Bock 180 nib unit 🙂

[Dillo]

15 minutes ago, lamarax said:

Too much e-ink wasted for what is clearly a standard Bock 180 nib unit 🙂

The Bock 180 uses a smaller diameter feed than the Perkeo does. It's a different diameter. I tested them and it does not sit flat on the Perkeo feed the way the original nib does. But even measuring the feed diameter with calipers shows that the feeds are different diameters.

[Nightjar]

Oh dear I think a war broke out, please make peace guys 😚 Culpa mía probablemente!

 

I'd still be happy to hear about other pens that Perkeo-lovers love... and if not, thanks again for fascinating responses to my enquiry.

 

 

[Azulado]

30 minutes ago, Nightjar said:

Oh dear I think a war broke out, please make peace guys 😚 Culpa mía probablemente!

 

I'd still be happy to hear about other pens that Perkeo-lovers love... and if not, thanks again for fascinating responses to my enquiry.

As far as I am concerned, there is no war. I read almost all the comments posted by @Dillo because I find them very interesting and I even follow some of his advice. But I will not give up my right to make objections. I have not even said that he is wrong. 

Your post seems to me to be most timely. The Perkeo nib has some special characteristics, it's different from all the ones I've written with. I will tell you that it took me a year to get it to work right. Your post seems to me to be most timely. The Perkeo nib has some special characteristics, it is different from all the others I have written with. I will tell you that it took me a year to get it to work right. I think the problem was in the poor insertion of the nib. My unit was not fully inserted, between the size engraving and the edge of the section there was a lot of distance. I looked for pictures on the internet and almost all nibs were seen with the size engraving on the line of the edge of the section.
The problem is that when I took the nib out, I think the section joint line opened up and ink started coming out of it. I solved it with Loctite on the outside. The clear inner sleeve also cracked. In this case, beeswax solved the problem. These breaks probably occurred when inserting the feed and nib.

I wrote to Kaweco to inform them of these differences in nib position.

I have noted that the second generation manufactures the one-piece section. This, in addition to reducing costs, may make it stronger. 

I don't know if you have the new single color ones. I have only seen the pictures. If you have it, I wanted to know if it still has a transparent inner sleeve or if the nib feed assembly fits directly into the section, like the Lamy Safari.

 

[Dillo]

For the benefit of others here, both of my newer Perkeos are a single piece grip section design. The feed is keyed into the grip section with a key in the very back of the grip section that fits into a corresponding flat on the back of the feed to prevent rotation. Because of this, it is important to pull the feed and nib straight out without any twisting or the feed will be damaged. It is also only possible to put the feed into the grip section in one way or it will not seat properly.

 

I also have one new Perkeo that is transparent that also allowed me to more carefully examine how things fit together without cutting the grip apart. I do my best to only speak of pens I actually own or have seen a lot of. At any given moment, I have many different spare pen parts on my desk and many more behind me. I have contact with many different people in the pen world as well.