1554 vs 1554 Gregg

January 8

I have several 1554 Firm Fine Nibs and today found a 1554 Gregg. Is this a variant to the 1554. I know the 1555 is a Gregg Shorthand.

January 8

This might be of interest,

January 8

2 hours ago, Estycollector said:

This might be of interest,

Yes I read that first and felt it was a lot of assumptions of what to do with the nibs but no reasoning of the variant

January 9

From Brian Anderson's site....it looks like both were designed for shorthand, but the 1555 was officially approved as a Gregg nib.

1554	Firm Fine	Shorthand and penmanship, clerical
1555	Firm Fine	Oficially approved for Gregg Shorthand

It could have been simply a marketing thing. Even in its day, Gregg shorthand was a methodology that was also sold in the form of books and educational classes.

January 9

7 hours ago, gweimer1 said:

From Brian Anderson's site....it looks like both were designed for shorthand, but the 1555 was officially approved as a Gregg nib.

1554 Firm Fine Shorthand and penmanship, clerical

1555 Firm Fine Oficially approved for Gregg Shorthand

It could have been simply a marketing thing. Even in its day, Gregg shorthand was a methodology that was also sold in the form of books and educational classes.

Yes I did see that as well.

The question is the 1554 comes in a "gregg" branded and "un-branded" variant.

the 1555 comes only branded with Gregg Shorthand as an OFFICIALLY approved.

The question is why did the 1554 go back and forth in branding.

January 9

1 hour ago, BenJoeM said:

Yes I did see that as well.

The question is the 1554 comes in a "gregg" branded and "un-branded" variant.

the 1555 comes only branded with Gregg Shorthand as an OFFICIALLY approved.

The question is why did the 1554 go back and forth in branding.

There were several different shorthands. Could it be "Gregg" had become a generic term for shorthands, much the same as Xerox, Kleenex, and Google in their respective fields, which Esterbrook was emphasizing?

January 9

Esterbrook had a wonderfully creative marketing philosophy. The famous nib used by Charles Shultz is the Radio 914 is the same as #14 Bank nib.

January 9

2 hours ago, PPPR said:

There were several different shorthands. Could it be "Gregg" had become a generic term for shorthands, much the same as Xerox, Kleenex, and Google in their respective fields, which Esterbrook was emphasizing?

Gregg Shorthand was a specific methodology of shorthand and extremely popular in its time. The company produced a few “GREGG”-branded nibs, one of which was the 1555, labeled as an Officially Approved Gregg Shorthand Nib. This was essentially an endorsement by the Gregg Shorthand Company (or society, or a similar organization).

The 1554, in reality, is a Firm Fine nib, just like the 1555. The key difference between the two is that the 1555 explicitly says “Gregg” and is labeled and advertised as such in the catalog. Most of the 1554 nibs in my collection are simply marked “1554.” However, I have recently acquired 1554 nibs that also bear the “Gregg” marking.

This raises the question: why produce a variant Gregg-branded 1554 when the 1555 already exists (especially since both nibs are functionally identical)? Was this an early attempt at transitioning toward officially Gregg-endorsed nibs, or is there another explanation?

January 9

Marketing

January 9

@FarmBoy Marketing can't be the answer because there is no value in marketing the 1554 gregg and the 1555 gregg, in their catalog the 1554 was Clerical, 1555 is Short hand.

They were already marketing it as a different nib.

January 10

It would be interesting to see photos of the 1554 and 1555 nibs side by side (and possibly from different angles). I don't have any 1554 nibs, but I have a couple of vintage Esties with 1555 nibs, and was quite impressed by how nicely they write -- even with the folded over nibs and no tipping on them.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

January 10

30 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

It would be interesting to see photos of the 1554 and 1555 nibs side by side (and possibly from different angles). I don't have any 1554 nibs, but I have a couple of vintage Esties with 1555 nibs, and was quite impressed by how nicely they write -- even with the folded over nibs and no tipping on them.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

There is a side-by-side picture in the initial post.

January 10

24 minutes ago, FarmBoy said:

There is a side-by-side picture in the initial post.

True, but it's not the best photo as far as seeing the folded-over tines. And the end on one of the tines on the 1555 nib looks kinda mangled....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

January 10

13 hours ago, BenJoeM said:

@FarmBoy Marketing can't be the answer because there is no value in marketing the 1554 gregg and the 1555 gregg, in their catalog the 1554 was Clerical, 1555 is Short hand.

They were already marketing it as a different nib.

It wouldn't be the first time that Esterbrook used two different numbers for essentially the same nib, only differentiated by the "use" of the nib. A good example are the proliferation of very similar nibs each with their own number, marketed at very similar penmanship methods at the end of the 19th-c., e.g. Vertical Writer, Modified Slant, 701 vs. 752 vs. 556, etc...

There was no 554 Esterbrook dip pen, but the 555 number was their accountant pen, fine and firm and very popular. It could be that when they went to Gregg to get official certification, they reverted to a known number, 555, already popular with businesses. Just speculation, but it fits former patterns. A good set of comparisons of unused versions of the nibs would be helpful. (I have a 1555 Gregg that was snipped and smoothed to make a nice little stub, so unused would be more helpful)

January 10

1 hour ago, AAAndrew said:

It wouldn't be the first time that Esterbrook used two different numbers for essentially the same nib, only differentiated by the "use" of the nib. A good example are the proliferation of very similar nibs each with their own number, marketed at very similar penmanship methods at the end of the 19th-c., e.g. Vertical Writer, Modified Slant, 701 vs. 752 vs. 556, etc...

There was no 554 Esterbrook dip pen, but the 555 number was their accountant pen, fine and firm and very popular. It could be that when they went to Gregg to get official certification, they reverted to a known number, 555, already popular with businesses. Just speculation, but it fits former patterns. A good set of comparisons of unused versions of the nibs would be helpful. (I have a 1555 Gregg that was snipped and smoothed to make a nice little stub, so unused would be more helpful)

Great thoughts!