Lamy Safari Grip - Any workarounds and/or mods?

[jecarfor]

Hi everyone,

I got my very first fountain pen some weeks ago, which is a Lamy Safari Cream Special Edition. I love everyting about the pen, the ink window, the material (this is a mate edition), how easy is to change nibs, the available converters and the easiness to be cleaned. I've used it a lot, but the only thing I'm not fully used to is the tripod grip.

The issue relies on the mismatch for my current learning process to write with my arm by using The Palmer Method of Business Writing guide, as I'm trying (sort of) abandonning my old hand writing habit (or at least leaving it to a minimum usage). If I used my hand as I've done all my life the grip fits perfectly and I wouldn't have complains, but with the arm movement as the hand is no longer tilted/leant to the side but now more with the palm facing the paper the tripod grip does not work anymore, and if I turned the pen around to make it work with this way of positioning my hand the nib does not correctly touch the paper and ink does not flow out of it.

Is there any workaround that does not involve "you-should-get-another-pen" and "there-are-better-options-than-safari" fixes to use with any Safari.?

I do like the pen, the available colors, especially the mate ones as they look elegant (even though it's ABS plastic) and I like the feeling of the pen so I'd like to know if any of you have made any non-destructive modifications or have stumbled upon any solutions for this that you have already tried

I'm attaching pics of me with the different way I can and cannot make use of the pen.

 

1. Hand Grip: Perfect Grip. This is my whole-life writing style, ink flows normally.




2. Arm Writing Good Grip, no Ink flow: In this position my fingers fit the grip but ink does not flow at all given the nib position




3. Arm Writing No good grip: Grip does not match my fingers but ink flows normally


¿

Edited January 8 by jecarfor

[inkstainedruth]

I didn't think I could get used to the the section on a Safari until someone gave me a Jinhao 599 (a knock-off of a Safari or al-Star).  Not a great pen (it writes like the $5 US pen it's probably only worth) -- but invaluable in that it taught me I COULD get used to the triangular section (I had tried holding a Safari at a pen show early on and thought that the edges of the section were too sharp -- and I have "girly hands"....

Not sure what suggestions to make for your hand-grip vs. arm position issues -- other than to say if that if the pen works with your hand grip in photo #1?  Go with it.... (Not sure if the nib and feed position in the section can be modified, but that might be a possibility if you have access to a pen show or repair shop near you where you can SHOW someone the issues you are having with the pen.)

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[Mechanical]

From the pictures, it does looks like you are rotating the nib so that ink can't flow onto the paper.  In some pens you can rotate the nib with respect to the section... but not sure if you can do that with a Safari.

[jecarfor]

@inkstainedruth The pen clearly works for the grip on pic #1, but unfortunately it does not match Palmer's arm writing hand position and given what I'm learning my goal is not to make myself adapt to the pen but rather the pen adapt to me in some way. I know the latter is highly difficult, and probably impossible, but last thing to loose in life is hope

[jecarfor]

@Mechanical I'm not rotating the nib, the pen is the only thng that I'm rotating. The nib on the safari is on a fixed position as the grip body internals has some tabs that make the feed body click, and the space inside of it does not allow to rotate it. In hope of having something similar I looked at the TUZU Adjust, which is a safari-like rotating alternative, but it was a no-no in design for me, as no mate colors are available and it does not have an ink window.

[Mechanical]

4 minutes ago, jecarfor said:

@Mechanical I'm not rotating the nib, the pen is the only thng that I'm rotating. The nib on the safari is on a fixed position as the grip body internals has some tabs that make the feed body click, and the space inside of it does not allow to rotate it. In hope of having something similar I looked at the TUZU Adjust, which is a safari-like rotating alternative, but it was a no-no in design for me, as no mate colors are available and it does not have an ink window.

 

Ah, what I meant to say:  as you rotate the pen, it  looks like the  nib is rotated with respect the paper.  I think that's the problem.  Since rotating the nib with respect to the section isn't possible with the Safari I'm not sure what's the best course of action.  Does it help to move the paper further away?  Or maybe using a drawing board, propped up at an angle, might help.

[Glenn-SC]

I know of no way to “modify” a Safari nib and feed to change their rotational orientation with respect to the grip.  If the “Arm Writing Method” requires a different orientation of the nib to the paper than that of the Safari then I see two options: get a different pen or try another method.  

[Ron Z]

20 hours ago, Mechanical said:

In some pens you can rotate the nib with respect to the section... but not sure if you can do that with a Safari.

 

I'm all but certain that you can't.  I had to pull the feed on one a few years ago  and had a bear of a time getting it back into the section.  IIRC they are "keyed" in such a way that the feed goes into the section in only one position.  I just checked the Vista that I have, and what I see seems to confirm that.  It looks like there is a raised flat area on the bottom in the opening, and that the bottom of the feed is flattened.  You would have to bore out the section with a boring  bar on the lathe to remove that and have a completely round opening so that you could set the feed in any position much like you can with a Parker 75.

 

The other option is to have the nib ground to an oblique to accommodate the way that you hold the pen.  Either would cost as much as the pen.

[Azulado]

There is a way to make that transformation. You decide if it's worth the trouble, and go ahead with the work. I think an oblique nib would be more reasonable.

https://flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com/2013/06/lamy-safarivista-grip-adjustment.html

[Penguincollector]

Lamy does make gold oblique nibs, but they’re not cheap. Sometimes you can get them for as low as $50 something on Endless Pens if you watch for sales. 

[jecarfor]

@Mechanical Palmer Method concentrates on body and paper position and a flat horizontal writing surface, so your suggestions would break the rules in how to write palmer properly as it would create a non comfortable position to work on.

Edited January 12 by jecarfor

[jecarfor]

On 1/9/2025 at 10:53 AM, Azulado said:

There is a way to make that transformation. You decide if it's worth the trouble, and go ahead with the work. I think an oblique nib would be more reasonable.

https://flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com/2013/06/lamy-safarivista-grip-adjustment.html

An oblique nib would be more expensive than the pen itself, wouldn't it?

[Astronymus]

1 hour ago, jecarfor said:

An oblique nib would be more expensive than the pen itself, wouldn't it?

Indeed. Depends on how much do you like the pen though.

[inkstainedruth]

@jecarfor I don't know if a left-handed nib would be what you'd want (I don't know if that would be an equivalent to an oblique).  Or where you're located.  But I just did a quick search and a Lamy left-handed nib is $16 US at Goulet Pens (so, guessing it would be about the same price at all other US retailers).

Yes, that's adding about half again to the price of the pen (depending on whether or not you have a converter in it).  But that might be something to consider -- and possibly a LOT less money than a regrind.  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Azulado]

22 hours ago, jecarfor said:

An oblique nib would be more expensive than the pen itself, wouldn't it?

Yes, it is much more expensive than a new Safari, but your demand for the Safari to suit your needs comes at a price. It would be cheaper for a Lamy CP1, which uses the same nib, but you want it to be a Safari. I think your case is so specific that it is unreasonable to say that the nib is more expensive than the pen.

I think your case is so specific that it is unreasonable to say that the nib is more expensive than the pen. It's like if someone wants to race on circuit with a Fiat Panda. The adaptation will be very expensive. It will always be cheaper to buy a sport version of another model. But there are people for everything, I have seen to put a Ferrari engine in a Citroën 2 CV van.
If we discard the micro-engineering involved in rotating the nib, you are left with three options.
1. I believe there were Z50 steel nibs in the 80's. If they exist, they must be expensive, they are usually assembled by vintage Lamy. Only if you are lucky enough to find a cheap Lamy at a flea market that mounts an oblique.

2. The gold Lamy nib. Excessively expensive.
3. FP nibs modifies the nib to your requirements, with many more options than the original Lamy gold nib. But the regrind alone costs 50 €. Add shipping and the base nib. It would be cheaper than a gold one. Seems like a reasonable option to me. This option has an advantage, this nib will probably become the best in your collection. But that is a very personal decision.

https://www.fpnibs.com/pages/regrinding

Of course, you can also look for another nibmaster, but I don't think you're going to save much. Or learn how to grind nibs. Colleagues at FPN who can help you learn the technique are not going to be lacking. After all, if you're willing to learn Palmer, you won't lack willpower.

 

[jecarfor]

12 hours ago, Azulado said:

Yes, it is much more expensive than a new Safari, but your demand for the Safari to suit your needs comes at a price. It would be cheaper for a Lamy CP1, which uses the same nib, but you want it to be a Safari. I think your case is so specific that it is unreasonable to say that the nib is more expensive than the pen.

I think your case is so specific that it is unreasonable to say that the nib is more expensive than the pen. It's like if someone wants to race on circuit with a Fiat Panda. The adaptation will be very expensive. It will always be cheaper to buy a sport version of another model. But there are people for everything, I have seen to put a Ferrari engine in a Citroën 2 CV van.
If we discard the micro-engineering involved in rotating the nib, you are left with three options.
1. I believe there were Z50 steel nibs in the 80's. If they exist, they must be expensive, they are usually assembled by vintage Lamy. Only if you are lucky enough to find a cheap Lamy at a flea market that mounts an oblique.

2. The gold Lamy nib. Excessively expensive.
3. FP nibs modifies the nib to your requirements, with many more options than the original Lamy gold nib. But the regrind alone costs 50 €. Add shipping and the base nib. It would be cheaper than a gold one. Seems like a reasonable option to me. This option has an advantage, this nib will probably become the best in your collection. But that is a very personal decision.

https://www.fpnibs.com/pages/regrinding

Of course, you can also look for another nibmaster, but I don't think you're going to save much. Or learn how to grind nibs. Colleagues at FPN who can help you learn the technique are not going to be lacking. After all, if you're willing to learn Palmer, you won't lack willpower.

 

It think a work by a nibmesiter even though might not save money in the short end, the Safari being hot swappable will allow me swap the nib easily with any other Safari I might get as I must confess that taking out the grip, is a quite nice looking pen for my eyes

[jecarfor]

On 1/9/2025 at 10:53 AM, Azulado said:

There is a way to make that transformation. You decide if it's worth the trouble, and go ahead with the work. I think an oblique nib would be more reasonable.

https://flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com/2013/06/lamy-safarivista-grip-adjustment.html

@Flounder How did it went in the long term?

As per my pics I've got a regular Safari (not seethrough Vista) and do not own a mini-ball drill. So I want to know how dificult it was and if the the mod did stand permanently or Did you stumbled upon any issue afterwards?

You seem to be the only one who dared to turn the feed to overcome this design issue.

[Dillo]

I think in my opinion, best for you to just get another pen. The Safari is just one of very few pens that uses a triangle grip like that. I think you can try to get the Sailor Tuzu or Stabilo EasyBirdy if you want some adjustability.

 

There are tons of pens with round grips out there so you can hold the pen in the way you need to for Palmer. I'm also not certain that the Palmer grip is actually a good grip ergonomically because when you have the wrist rotated in that fashion, it can cause some compression in the carpal tunnel. Your original grip has your wrist rotated in what would be a more natural position. If you see the ways people use drop handlebars and vertical mice, this is the reasons why those are oriented in that vertical way. Also with the way that the pointer finger is oriented, you are focusing a lot of force on that finger. It's a lot less evenly distributed among the fingers than your original grip. I think that instead of focusing on arm writing, I think one should figure out how to distribute the motions between the small muscles in the finger and the large muscles in the arm instead of just one or the other. The small muscles are made for fine movements and that's why they are critical to letter formation. The key is to keep things moving with both and don't leave either static or unused.

 

Those are my thoughts from the perspective of someone who has had serious RSI/carpal tunnel issues, has consulted with various occupational therapists working in ergonomics and handwriting, does calligraphy, and currently can write clearly and pain free. I have used fountain pens most of my life. Of course you can choose what path you want to take with this, but these are my critiques of this.

[Dillo]

Today at work, I did speak to one of our much older occupational therapists today (much past retirement age) who also works with ergonomics and who is very familiar with the Palmer method, and she said that there is indeed a reason why the Palmer method was for the most part abandoned, and she did tell me her concerns about it which were very much what I laid above. She said that your original grip is more protective of your wrist and that the Palmer grip is not really a healthy position for your wrist or fingers to be in ergonomically. She also advised caution because for people who learned it older (over 20), there is a much higher risk of injury that can be difficult to reverse.

 

She said that back then they really did not understand our musculoskeletal system as well as we do now and that with the advancements we've had, we know much better now. She herself uses a grip similar to your original grip. She also critiqued their recommendation for writing on a completely flat surface because if you look at the head and neck positioning of the writers, it can cause injury to the head and neck. For some people she said that a slantboard may be more advisable so that you can look more straight up and not bend in that position to look down at the writing.

 

Of course, do with that what you will. Your choice, but I figured that since I have access to some people who know it, I might as well ask and then put up some of the information they were able to give me for the benefit of others crossing this way. Best of luck!

[Ron Z]

Very good information!