Diluting Water-resistant black inks

[Carrau]

  On 1/3/2025 at 3:45 PM, LizEF said:

For our international friends, in the US, you often see companies using things like "sweepstakes" or "mail in rebates" (where you send in the receipt and UPC symbol off the package of what you bought, and then send you back some amount of money - yes, this is now done digitally rather than via snail mail, if it's done at all), or some other sales gimmick.  Almost without fail, in the fine print detailing the rules of the "game", you will find, "Offer not valid in New Jersey".  I don't know what laws they have in New Jersey (a US State on the east coast, well known for having lots of casinos, but not as many as Nevada), but obviously, they have outlawed offers.  So if you come to America and visit New Jersey, be very careful not to make any offers in New Jersey!   (I'm not sure why you'd go to New Jersey anyway, but you might need to drive through it. Bring a car - we drive in America. )

Expand  

I believe the only offers made in NJ are the ones that “can’t “ be refused.

[LizEF]

  On 1/3/2025 at 10:28 PM, Carrau said:

I believe the only offers made in NJ are the ones that “can’t “ be refused.

Expand  

[inkstainedruth]

  On 1/3/2025 at 10:28 PM, Carrau said:

I believe the only offers made in NJ are the ones that “can’t “ be refused.

Expand  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: Well, in New Jersey's defense, it's generally a lot cheaper to get your gas tank filled up -- especially since they don't (or at least didn't use to) allow "self-serve" gas pumps and were STILL cheaper.  

There was one time a number of years ago when we went to visit my dad, and were stopping to get the gas tank on the car filled up before heading home.  And were amazed at how much lower the price per gallon was; and the guy who was working there THEN told us that the guy before us was *complaining* about the price and I said, "That guy better NOT be heading for Connecticut then...."

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Spinningchester]

  On 1/3/2025 at 10:27 PM, Carrau said:

Make distilled water at home-skip to about 2:02 on the video.

 

 

Expand  

Thanks!  This is very helpful!  It's a keeper...

[Spinningchester]

  On 1/3/2025 at 9:48 PM, yazeh said:

@Spinningchester I can aspire at being an artist but I'm no pro

I learned a lot from ink work from Marc Kompaneyets. Here is his video on Lexington Gray. 

 

 

He also has a video on how to use other inks. 

 

I have one water brush 1:1 (hard)tap water and Lexington Gray. I'm still learning. Controlling some inks on paper is very difficult, especially when I don't use the appropriate paper.  

Expand  

Yeah - I have a folder full of test sheets of paper and everything labeled and dated because I have been having problems with paper for inks, too.  Wet-media is more about the paper than the wet-media itself.  Recent shocker - I brushed Speedball Superblack onto a sheet of Fabriano Studio (100% cellulose) Hot Press Paper, let it dry, and it wasn't water-resistant!  So even some heavily pigmented inks aren't water-resistant on some papers. Fabriano Studio Hot Press is definitely out of the running for my fountain pen work.  I just got a ream of 110 lb. acid-free cardstock that alcohol-marker artists swear by, and I am looking forward to testing that paper with my inks.  I think some of the problem I have been having with watercolor papers is their heavy use of water-soluble sizing both on the paper surface and internally.  Fabriano uses potato starch, Arches uses gelatin - but in the end, the inks are binding with any sizing around the cellulose fibers and not with the cellulose fibers themselves. Cardstock doesn't have sizing - so hopefully a heavy-weight cardstock will take light washes and the ink will be able to bind more with the cellulose fibers and hence be more permanent.  When the tests are done and dried on that paper, I will let you know how it went.

 

Art does seem to be more about chemistry some days - hard water elements are binding with the ink molecules causing problems with dilutions, ink molecules are binding with water-soluble sizing and not with the cellulose so they won't stay in place while I'm working, fountain pens need dye solutions and not pigments so the pens won't clog... and I'm coming from a watercolor background, so I have already learned my pigments and particle sizes in watercolors because the same pigment crushed to a different particle size will appear a different color and behave in a different way.  It's all "know your materials so you can get the chemical reactions for the look you want'.

 

Marc Kompanyetes' videos are very informative! His Lexington Grey video is the reason I have Lexington Grey in a pen right now.  Thanks for reminding me of the video - I will give it another look. Tonight I have been working on a study of a Van Gogh drawing with my Duke 600 Fude Nib, Lexington Grey, and my Fabriano 1264 Mixed Media sketchbook - pretty much all because of watching Marc Kompanyetes' videos. oh- the Fabriano 1264 Mixed Media Sketchbook paper takes inks very well, and right now Blick has a BOGO 50% sale on the Sketchbook.  I don't recommend this paper for dry media (graphite, conte, or colored pencil) because a strange wavy texture gets revealed, but it takes all kinds of inks like a champ.  Black Sharpies don't bleed through - just a little ghosting when it's held up to light.  Some really wet lines of Lexington Grey have feathered a little when I made a broad stroke with great pressure from an FPR EF ultraflex nib, but none of my fude nib strokes bleed.  Noodler's Bad Blue Heron released some blue wash after 2 days of drying on this paper.  This paper is not archival - I wouldn't use it for a finished piece.  But for my practice, it's great.

Thank you for your thoughts and advice!

[Spinningchester]

  On 1/3/2025 at 9:12 PM, LizEF said:

No. @Arkanabar is saying that automotive places will sell distilled water for the purpose of diluting antifreeze.  In other words - listing some of the other places where you can find distilled water, should you not wish to go to a MalWart or not have one nearby.

 

(WalMart, MalWart, what's the difference?)

Expand  

Lol.  WalMart, MalWart.... 

Thanks for the clarification!  More options are always appreciated!

[BrassRatt]

Re:  RO

 

Reverse osmosis does remove dissolved minerals about as well as distillation.  It is used to provide ultra-pure water to critical industrial applications such as integrated circuit manufacture.  

 

Bottled "purified" water sold for drinking water has had minerals added (!) "for taste" after the purification step.  So don't use it instead of distilled water, but don't blame RO for the minerals in it. 

 

[LizEF]

  On 1/4/2025 at 8:58 AM, BrassRatt said:

Re:  RO

 

Reverse osmosis does remove dissolved minerals about as well as distillation.  It is used to provide ultra-pure water to critical industrial applications such as integrated circuit manufacture.  

 

Bottled "purified" water sold for drinking water has had minerals added (!) "for taste" after the purification step.  So don't use it instead of distilled water, but don't blame RO for the minerals in it. 

 

Expand  

[Spinningchester]

  On 1/4/2025 at 3:54 PM, LizEF said:

Expand  

Thanks for the tip!  Got it!

[Spinningchester]

  On 1/4/2025 at 8:58 AM, BrassRatt said:

Re:  RO

 

Reverse osmosis does remove dissolved minerals about as well as distillation.  It is used to provide ultra-pure water to critical industrial applications such as integrated circuit manufacture.  

 

Bottled "purified" water sold for drinking water has had minerals added (!) "for taste" after the purification step.  So don't use it instead of distilled water, but don't blame RO for the minerals in it. 

 

Expand  

Thanks for the tip!  I am learning so much chemistry by getting into fountain pens.... who'd a thunkit?  Dip pens are slow and clunky, so I decided to go faster, but now I have to know my types of water as well as inks and pens and paper.  Better writing through chemistry!

[yazeh]

@Spinningchester THanks for sharing your experience. Sometimes, when testing inks, I use any paper, lying around, not the best idea. Hence when I use De Atramentis Document Cyan In brush pen, it stick to the paper, if it's not wet. The same with Noodler's Baltimore blue.  

For now, I've just been experimenting exclusively with ink, for my ink reviews.  I've done negligible work with watercolour. But I know some document/bulletproof inks don't bind 100 percent to paper. For ex. Noodler's Polar Black, one of the blackest inks, is waterproof but because of it's vicious/ wet nature a lot if ink. SO when you apply a wet brush a bit of black is removed. Ironically Polar Brown is the complete opposite and binds immediately though one can only use it with a Ef. 

Kala inks (Pigment inks) are pricier and more difficult to find. They need longer dry times but because of the subtle dyes inside them, they make for very nice washes. 

Octopus Write and Draw have a lot of colours but if you know them and you know how to mix then you're better off with basic pigment inks. 

 

I got my bottle of Lexington grey thanks to his videos. It's the ink I have most used. I have it diluted 1:1 with water in ink brush too. 

As with paper, I learn a lot from mistakes. Sometimes when using "wrong" paper (like Fabriano sketchbook) I get interesting textures from the paper.  Anyway, enjoy the process and post some your art, here or in the gallery, when you can

[Spinningchester]

  On 1/7/2025 at 9:45 PM, yazeh said:

@Spinningchester THanks for sharing your experience. Sometimes, when testing inks, I use any paper, lying around, not the best idea. Hence when I use De Atramentis Document Cyan In brush pen, it stick to the paper, if it's not wet. The same with Noodler's Baltimore blue.  

For now, I've just been experimenting exclusively with ink, for my ink reviews.  I've done negligible work with watercolour. But I know some document/bulletproof inks don't bind 100 percent to paper. For ex. Noodler's Polar Black, one of the blackest inks, is waterproof but because of it's vicious/ wet nature a lot if ink. SO when you apply a wet brush a bit of black is removed. Ironically Polar Brown is the complete opposite and binds immediately though one can only use it with a Ef. 

Kala inks (Pigment inks) are pricier and more difficult to find. They need longer dry times but because of the subtle dyes inside them, they make for very nice washes. 

Octopus Write and Draw have a lot of colours but if you know them and you know how to mix then you're better off with basic pigment inks. 

 

I got my bottle of Lexington grey thanks to his videos. It's the ink I have most used. I have it diluted 1:1 with water in ink brush too. 

As with paper, I learn a lot from mistakes. Sometimes when using "wrong" paper (like Fabriano sketchbook) I get interesting textures from the paper.  Anyway, enjoy the process and post some your art, here or in the gallery, when you can

Expand  

Thanks for the fountain pen ink advice!  It's appreciated.  I started with pigment inks and dip pens, and I haven't been getting rid of them.  They are messy, fussy, and don't do smooth long lines, but Dr. Ph Martin's Black Star India Ink can't be beat for being waterproof.  I am working out my process, which will probably wind up being a blend of fountain pens and their inks, and dip pens with pigmented inks.

 

There's a gallery here?  I will check it out. Thanks for the word!  I don't have any finished work currently.  Mostly I have been practicing with these new tools and materials while doing some sketchbook studies of other (far greater) artists.  Since we are discussing Lexington Grey~ Today I have been working with mostly Noodler's Lexington Grey (with a few touches of Noodler's Bulletproof Black) in a Duke 600 pen with a fude nib, seeing if this fude nib can get the same variety of strokes that Vincent Van Gogh could get from a reed pen.  It sounds like a ridiculous proposition - of course Vincent Van Gogh could do more with reed pens than I can do with a modern fude nib!  And it's true - he could do more.  I couldn't reproduce all of his line weights in proportion, but I am pleased with how close the Duke 600 fude nib came to getting his full range.  It's looking like a couple of brush pens and Duke 600's with fude nibs (and maybe an Ahab or two with flex nibs), and there won't be much in the world of pen and ink I won't be able to create.  As this isn't a finished work and I don't have good sunlight right now to take a proper picture, I won't post it in the gallery, but perhaps you would like to see a quick snap attached below.   I hope Vincent Van Gogh's admirers won't mind if I post a image both of his drawing and my sketchbook study here.  I wrote on my study that I was studying VVG's original and the name of his drawing, so hopefully all due credit is respectfully going to the Master.

Edited January 8 by Spinningchester

[yazeh]

Gorgeous reproduction

Here's the Art Gallery  

 

[LizEF]

  On 1/8/2025 at 5:33 AM, Spinningchester said:

Expand  

I love this!

[inkstainedruth]

@Spinningchester -- Thanks for posting your drawing!  (I'm a huge fan of Van Gogh's work, and got to see the traveling exhibit of the "Immersive Van Gogh" a couple of years ago, where they did a slide show, set to music, of his works on the walls of a large empty room where you stood or sat in the center.  They also did one, more recently, of Frieda Kahlo's work but didn't go to that -- a lot of her stuff is kind of strange (although I did appreciate it more after seeing the biopic they did of her life a couple of years ago).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth