Another 51 color question

[John T]

So I see this pen listed on fleabay It is listed as a 51 MKIII

 

 

But from what I have seen online, next photo from Ernesto Soler, the 51 in this particular color only came in the 51's with the flattened not rounded barrel. 

 

Am I wrong to suspect this is a 21?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Your question has stumped 79 posters and I'm stumped also; but I'm a 'noobie' to Parker.

[John T]

29 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Your question has stumped 79 posters and I'm stumped also; but I'm a 'noobie' to Parker.

I too am just getting into the wild and crazy world of Parkers, primarily 51's, and am trying to figure out all the variations they came in. I am acquiring them slowly in each color but it gets weird when you run into something like this, hence the question raised here where there are many more people who have more knowledge...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Questions are needed.

Here learning is fun....there are no tests.

 

There ware books on just Parker pens.

 

I compied megs of info from the com...until I got Adreaus Lambrou's book on fountain pens...the '89 edition is said to be better than the later edtion. IMO a must have book.

[Switala]

I believe you have a Parker 51 Special. You can confirm this by looking at the "Special" inscription just below the Parker 51 engraved on the ink sac protector. The Special cap jewel is required to be black and the nib is octanium. The barrel clutch ring is from a 51, the 21 is quite different.

[Switala]

From left to right: Parker 21, Parker 51 "Special" and Parker 51 MKIII. In Brazil, the MKIII and Special are rare.
Best regards.

 

[VacNut]

A 51 Special is not really “special”, as it was produced during the end of the 51 era with less than quality materials.

There are discussions on what is a MK III depending on your reference and guide. It is difficult to determine the pen without seeing it in person, but it looks like it has an incorrect cap. 
 

I am not familiar with non US or UK manufactured 51s.

 

if you like the pen, take a risk and buy it. The scarcity of the pen shouldn’t be the only factor on a pen purchase.

[Paul-in-SF]

38 minutes ago, VacNut said:

if you like the pen, take a risk and buy it. The scarcity of the pen shouldn’t be the only factor on a pen purchase.

 

Is the OP asking about this in terms of scarcity? Or of perceived value of a model 21 vs. a 51 Special? It sounds like they are collecting, and just want to know what model they are (possibly) buying. 

[Switala]

We commented on other details of the pen but forgot the color. The Parker 51 "Special" was produced in 5 colors: Black, Gray, Burgundy, Blue and Green. Everything indicates that the pen in the photo is burgundy. There was also a Demi Special, with a steel tip and steel lid, but these were not marked "Special" like the larger versions.

The comment about scarcity was a reference to the Brazilian market, as a curiosity.

[thx1138]

In these photos the colour looks like rage red, it seems too bright for even British bloody burgundy. 

 

The hoop style filler is normal for a 21 and fairly uncommon for a 51. The only 51 I have seen, in person, with a hoop style filler was a 51 Special.

 

The cap appears to be a 51 cap with the correct clip. Does a 51 cap fit a 21? We need one of the 51 experts to chime in. My understanding is that Mark 3 51's had the squared off barrel as shown above.

 

The stamping on the filler shroud would be the most definitive identification.  Does the seller have photos of that?

 

 

[Jorge]

The simplest way to tell a P21 Super from a P51 Special (apart from the inscription "SPECIAL" in the filler tube of the latter) is measuring the lenght of the pen uncapped: The P21 Super measures  115mm and the P51 Special measures 125mm.

The clutch ring is the same in both pens, and  a P51 cap fits the P51 Super.