Lamy Aion - doubts about the feed and the barrel closure

[Azulado]

I've had a blue Lamy Aion with a medium nib for a year now. Overall, I am satisfied with the pen, I have used it almost every day. I bought it because I was attracted by the design and the nib. About this one, I must say that it has met all my expectations, it is a very different nib from the Z50's and writes very smoothly. 
However, there is one aspect that worries me, in general the flow is uneven. It never stops, but oscillates between medium and rich. Sometimes, after writing a few lines with an even flow, it seems as if the ink floods the feed and the flow suddenly becomes very rich. 
My suspicion is related to the converter. There are accounts of Z26 converters working erratically. I have already tried 4 or 5 converters, I have washed them with dishwasher soap. I have several Safari's, an Al-Star and a St 45, on all of them the converter works better, although occasionally the Aion problem reoccurs. The cartridge never fails. 
I wanted to try the cartridges, but this is where I encountered the first problem. When screwing in the body, I notice that in the last turn it becomes hard and you have to use force and you can feel a metal rubbing. I don't know if this is a defect or a design feature to ensure that the cartridge fits properly. Could anyone who has an Aion tell me if this is the case with their unit? There is no mention of this in any of the reviews. 

On the other hand, while investigating the flow discontinuities, I tried installing the Z50 nibs and noticed that their geometry does not match the geometry of the feed. The Z50 is much straighter and sits well away from the feed. 

 I gather that the Aion feed is unique to the Z53 nib, but I have not seen this issue noted in any reviews of the model. But I know that there are Aion owners who have installed gold nibs and have not referred to this fact and are even very satisfied with the adaptation. In my experience, the Z50 does not write because the feed is so far away. 

I have already written to Lamy and after a week, I have had no response. 
I should add that I bought a broad nib a few months ago to see if it solved the problem. The flow has increased, the writing is smoother, but the flow is still not even. I would say that the discontinuity has even worsened. I recently tried using Waterman Serenity blue and although the behaviour is noticeably improved, it still doesn't go perfectly. With this ink, the medium nib does better than the broad nib. 
In my observations, I noticed that the inside of the Z53 nibs are very polished. I think this is a feature that does not favour the ink channelling through the slit. The ink does not glide properly. Many nibs have roughness in that area to help the ink flow. But I can't say that the Z53 has a bad flow either. 

 

 

[Claes]

Bon día, Azulado!

 

I have never tried a Lamy Aion, but I severely doubt that there should be a gap between the nib and the feed.

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

[Azulado]

15 minutes ago, Claes said:

I have never tried a Lamy Aion, but I severely doubt that there should be a gap between the nib and the feed.

God morgon, Claes!

I should clarify that the nib seen in the photo is not the original Z53, but the Z50 used by the Safari. That's why I suspect that the feed on the Aion has a different curvature. The Z53 nibs fit the shape of the feed perfectly.

[Azulado]

The Z53 nib does fit the shape of the feed.

[Claes]

That looks much better :-)

[Azulado]

The Z50 nib does not fit the profile of the Aion feed.

 

[Dillo]

That's a very strange problem to have. Where did you get your Z50 nibs? As far as I am aware, there's only one part number for the feed Lamy uses on these pens. There are a few possibilities.

1. There are fake Z50 nibs being made. Some of them have a different curvature. The tip on your "Z50" nib doesn't look like the nib tip that Lamy gives their nibs. It looks similar to the tip on my Jinhao nibs that "sort of" fit Lamy pens.
2. I've seen some Z50 nibs that were sprung because someone use some strange method to remove them from the pen before selling them. I've had one of these that ended up just like yours and I had to adjust it to give it back its normal curvature. It was supposed to go on my Lamy Nexx that does use a Z50 nib and it had a large gap. I knew it was a genuine Lamy nib because of the way the tipping was ground and some other minor features on the nib, but I could tell that someone accidentally bent it the wrong way when removing it before installing it on my pen and sending it to me.

 

I also compared the curvature on my Lamy Z53 nibs with the Z50 and they do follow the same curvature. I was able to swap them between pens. My Z50 are not perfectly straight. They all curve down gently like your Z53.

 

One last question. What ink are you using? I've seen funny flow like this with certain inks that were not formulated properly. It will surge then run dry then suddenly surge again.

 

It is normal to encounter resistance when screwing down the barrel when installing cartridges. The last turn compresses the cartridge. All Lamy pens do this all the way from vintage times. All my Lamy Nexx, ABC, and Safaris all do this as well.

 

One last thing you can try is to get a spare Lamy feed. missing-pen sells them and they will ship it to you from Germany.

 

[Azulado]

@Dillo 

I have 18 Z50 nibs. I am almost certain that they are all original. I have bought them in reliable stores, both in Brazil, Spain and Germany. Because of manufacturing tolerances, some nibs fit more easily than others. All Z50s fit perfectly to the curvature of the feed.
The Z53 nibs fit the Safari very well. The problem is when putting the Z50 on the Aion. Actually, I don't care if the Z50 doesn't fit, I bought the Aion to use the Z53.
I have the Nexx, the Al Star, the Safari, the Joy and the ST 45. None of them require force on the last turn of the thread. Well, on the Al Star there is a very slight stiffening. It may be normal, but I get the impression that I am compressing the cartridge. If Lamy would notice this, I would be at ease. I have a Kaco Sky where on the last turn of the thread you notice it stiffens, but you quickly realize it's a design feature.
I have compared several Z50s to one of my Z53s. There is a clear difference in curvature. The Z50's are almost straight.

I don't want to take the feed out because then it gets looser. On the other hand, I have no reason to think it's defective, the pen writes well, it has a good flow. But it is irregular. If you've ever written with a Schneider, that to me is what regular flow is. The feed regulates the flow. With regard to converters, all my Schmidt's, they produce a regular flow. I'm not saying Lamy converters are bad, but they are sensitive to various factors. They don't go as smoothly as the Schmidt's, that's my experience. Lamy cartridges do provide you with a perfect experience.

As for the inks, Waterman Serenity Blue and Rohrer & Klingner blue royal flowed better than others. Lamy blue, one of my favorite inks, strangely doesn't work as well as it should. The flow is medium even using the broad nib. I have used more inks, but I don't remember now which ones. In any case, the ones I cited above are the best performers.

 

[Dillo]

Yes, there are some tolerance differences in the nibs themselves. All of my Lamy pens require some extra when you are putting in cartridges, but they don't do this when you have the converter installed. Can you show where your Aion stops when you are trying to put in a cartridge?

 

I probably could try to get a Lamy Aion grip to play around with it a bit since your comments on it are making me curious. I'll try to pick one up the next time I get spare Lamy parts for my pens. That way I can pull things apart and have a good look

 

I avoid pulling the feed out whenever possible, but if you were to replace the feed with a new one, it would be a non-issue in my view. I've never had tightness issues after replacing a Lamy feed with a brand new one because of the way the feed fits in the grip sections. Most of the wear appears to be on the feed itself instead of on the grip sections when you snap it in.

 

Also, important for you to know is that the Lamy converters and the Schmidt converters are actually very similar because Lamy initially relied on Schmidt technology to make them. I think Lamy may be making them in house now, but some of the parts like the piston still interchange. In your case, I don't think it's the converter at all. It sounds like a feed problem.

 

There are two things that I think about with feed issues and Lamy nibs. One of them is that if the curvature of your feed does not properly match the underside of the nib, it will behave as you described. The other is that if there are some defects in the feed or something blocking or some abnormalities where the air goes into the feed you will also have these issues. Another possibility is that your Aion nib has a funny curvature on it that it might not have. I was measuring my Z50 and Z53 nibs (I have lots and lots, containers of them) and my Z53 nibs I do have match the curvature of my Z50 nibs. The Z53 nibs are very stiff, so any differences in the shape will push the feed downwards. Feed curvature can be altered with hot water, then pressing the underside of the feed into the nib to mold them together. This is more commonly done with ebonite feeds, but it does work on ABS feeds as well.

 

I have over 40 Lamy pens, far too many of all sorts of vintages, and lots of random parts but it also means that I can test and try things out and see what happens. I also have a source for parts when things go wrong, so I don't worry a whole lot about messing things up. I've been using Lamy pens for more than half my life!

[Dillo]

It's interesting that you should mention Schneider pens. I have quite a few of them as well (around 20 or the whereabouts) and I'm a fan. I use different kinds of converters in them, not just Schmidts. They all work just as reliably as my Lamy pens do, but my experience is that their nibs are more consistent in quality than Lamy's nibs are. They're definitely well designed. If I were you though, I'd consider getting a brand new feed and exchanging the feed in your Aion to see what happens. Either that or send the pen to Lamy for repairs. They'll fix it for you. That's probably the most trouble free way. The inks you are using should not be causing any such problems. I've used all those before in Lamy pens and never had issues.

 

In cases like this, I find that the converters are almost never the problem. The only issue with converters is if the converter is leaking or ink is getting hung up on the sides of the converter. In that case, the Lamy converters, the Z28 and Z26 are the same material as the Schmidt K5 and should have nearly identical performance. They have the same bore diameter and use the same pistons.

 

My strong suspicion is that you have a problem with your feed and the way the feed and nib are interacting with each other.

 

The very last thing I want you to try is to shove the feed down as far as it can go. If it's not down all the way in the grip section, it will also behave this way. My most recent issue of this problem was caused by the feed not being pushed all the way in, and this caused the same flow issues you describe.

 

While some people may say that the nib is the heart of the fountain pen, in my opinion, it is the feed that makes a fountain pen a fountain pen. Dip pens have nibs too, but without the feed you can't have the air and ink exchange and connect the nib to a reservoir to supply a steady flow of ink. I think the feed is the true heart of the pen.

[Azulado]

Although I live in Brazil, I am Spanish and I bought the pen in Lamy Spain. I took advantage of a trip to my country to bring it back. It is not worth sending it from Brazil. 
As for the possibility of changing the feed, it's something I'm already considering. But first I wanted to see if any Aion owner could tell me if the Z50 nibs fit their pen. Although I'm a Missing Pen customer, it's not worth ordering a feed, you pay tax on the value of the goods plus shipping. But I would look for a second-hand Safari as a donor. 
I bought a Z53 broad from Missing Pen. It has the same features as the original. Suppose this one came curved and I had altered the curvature of the feeder, the Z53 broad would look straight like the Z50s. 

I bought a Z53 broad from Missing Pen. It has the same characteristics as the original. Suppose this one came curved and I had altered the curvature of the feed, the Z53 broad would look straight like the Z50. 
I have had the problem of the feed not touching the bottom.  But in this case it can't be a design issue, if you look at how the feed fits into the section, you'll notice that it's easy to see if it's offset. However, this can also be seen on the tail of the feed that fits into the nipple.
On the body, the threading starts to feel forced right where it is shown in one of the photos I posted. 
I am also a fan of Schneider. I have two Bases, a Ray and a Ceod. Only the tip on the latter is mediocre. Actually, it came with a flaw. But it's a different type of tip than the others. The Base are very good and the Ray is exceptional. 

 

I don't know if you can see anything, but I think the change in curvature starts right where the breathing hole is.

 

 

[Dillo]

In your picture, I see a change in the curvature around where the wings of the nib end and where the breather hole starts. Your Z50 is really straight.

 

I just went through a whole bunch of my Lamy pens in my collection just now. I also went through my stockpile of nibs. What I discovered is quite interesting. For the majority of my Z50 (steel) and Z55 (14K) nibs, they have the same curvature as the Z53 nibs I have. I did notice a minority of nibs, both the Z55 and Z50, that were straight as the Z50 you have in your picture. In all cases when they had that straight shape, when I put them on many of my pens, they had the same gap that you are seeing when you put that straight Z50 on your Aion. I also discovered that the few of the pens in my collection that had the straight shaped Z50 nibs that had significant gaps between the feeds and nibs. One of my pens that had the 14K Z55 had the straight shaped nib and also had a significant gap. I also found that my oldest example of the Z50 (no engraving) was somewhat straighter in shape but still had some curvature. It was not as straight as my straight Z50 nibs. That Z50 was mated to a feed with a flat end and no feed tail (an early 1990's pen). My very newest pens, the 2023 and 2024 LE pens all had Z50 nibs with curvature in them that matched my Z53 nibs. My nibs are from several sources including Cult Pens, Missing Pen, Jetpens, and Penboutique.

 

There is a step in the manufacturing of the nibs where they push the tines together and this is when some of the curvature takes shape as well. This is also why the curvature shape starts around where the breather hole is. Because of the shape and geometry of the Z53, they seem a lot more consistent when it comes to the curvature out of the factory. All of mine were really spot on. I did see variation all over the map with my Z50 and Z55 nibs, but generally speaking, most of the ones I had had curvature I could measure and a mean curvature similar to that of the Z53. I have some suspicions that the step where the push the tines together was having some consistency issues because on the nibs that were straighter, I also noticed less tapering of the nib slit toward the tip. That's a manufacturing consistency issue on Lamy's part.

 

In the end, I fixed the issues by giving all the straight nibs the same curve as the Z53. In total I did more than five nibs, and interestingly enough, most of those nibs appeared to be from the same time period when I got them. After I fixed the issues, those pens started writing much more consistently when I tested them. I'll be continuing to test them over the next few weeks.

 

As far as the part where your Aion stops, I experience that with the majority of my Lamy pens when I use cartridges with them the first time that I put a cartridge in. I just tested it on a few of my Safari and Nexx models now for good measure and a Lamy Joy. Even my Lamy 25P and 26P do that. For the metal on metal feeling, I tend to use the GPL 205 grease. Metal on metal threads tend to amplify any roughness when you screw them together.

 

As far as the Schneider Ceod goes, you have to get the Ceod Classic and not the Ceod Basic. The Ceod Classic has a tipped nib which is quite excellent. I have two of them, and they are one of the best values for the money. The Ceod Basic has a folded over nib which I don't really like and doesn't write as nicely.

[Azulado]

All of my Z50 nibs have a curvature that matches well with that of the feed. On some there may be minimal clearance, maybe 0.5 mm, but it does not affect performance. Interestingly, the ones with the largest clearance are two second and third generation Safari nibs. Both write excellently.
I have noticed that some Z50's have a smaller gap with the feed, but it is still a significant gap.
One thing I have noticed is that the converter goes in without any friction being felt. It seems to make the vacuum and is securely attached. To get it out you have to use force. On the other hand, when you put the cartridge in you feel the friction between the mouth and the nipple.
To recall an analogy, the Aion looks like a car with a misadjusted carburetor. The rest of my pens seem to have electronic injection.
In the last few pages I have written, the nib has stopped writing at least a couple of times. This is a very rare occurrence. I get the impression that a vacuum forms inside the feed. One of the times, the ink went all the way to the top, there was no way for it to go down and leave an air space. After turning the knob, it went down about three millimeters.

 

The Aion is the only pen in my collection that I can't seem to get up to speed. There are periods when it seems to be doing better, but I have yet to get the feeling that it is equal to any of my Lamys. But it is an extremely unique model, full of mysteries. There's the wobbly cap problem, which, incidentally, I'm not worried about.

About the Schneider Ceod, is the Shiny one of the good ones?

I had not noticed that the piston of the Lamy converters is the same as that of the Schneider converters. I did notice that the lip gap has three variants, totally hollow; a hollow cylinder; and a compact cylinder.

 

[Azulado]

Finally, I decided to try a cartridge. The performance improves quite a bit, there is a very small oscillation in the flow, but it is minimal, I wouldn't say it is a problem.
I suspect the Z26 converters, I have tried several. The ink stops flowing through the mouth. When the flow gets poorer or even fails, just shake the pen and the ink floods the feed.
On Penexchange, I read a posting that had this problem. The owner of the Aion contacted Lamy, they sent him another converter and the problem ended. I have tried several and none of them work perfectly with the Aion.

[Dillo]

Yes, the Shiny is one of the Ceods with tipping on the nib.

 

I really doubt it's the converter because on the Penexchange one, it seems to me that there was an air leak in the converter. That's a different kind of problem.

 

The minimal clearance is not right. They should be fully touching. You should not be able to slide even a thin piece of paper between the tip of the feed and the underside of the nib. If you can see light between them, that's not the way it should be. With the earlier Safaris, the nibs seem to have less of a curve than the new ones. That's normal. Still, the tip of the feed should be touching the underside of the nib with no gaps

 

Again, I would try to push the feed of the Aion into the grip and make sure it's fully seated. There's some snap pieces on the sides that click into place. I've found that removing nibs sometimes cause it to wiggle out but some of them are not always pushed in fully when you buy the pen.Also, look on the back of the grip to make sure the tail of the feed is level with the cartridge connector. If it isn't level, the feed isn't pushed in all the way. Even the feed being a small way out will cause problems with the air ink regulation because it will create a second path for air to go in and cause problems with the ink going down until you shake it. It also prevents the tail of the feed from having direct access to the ink supply, airlocking it. That's the last troubleshooting step I'll give you for now

[Mercian]

On 11/17/2024 at 3:19 PM, Azulado said:

I suspect the Z26 converters, I have tried several. The ink stops flowing through the mouth. When the flow gets poorer or even fails, just shake the pen and the ink floods the feed.

 

This is indeed the classic 'surface tension' problem.

I have experienced it in Lamy converters, and in Parker converters. With inks made by Lamy, inks made by Parker, and inks made by other manufacturers.

It happens because the converter's ink chamber is narrow enough that ink's surface tension exerts more force on it inside the converter than does gravity. This means that ink can often 'clump' at the piston-end of the ink chamber - i.e. at the far end of the converter from the pen's feed.

The best solution is to put an 'agitator' inside one's converter - a device that will move around inside the converter, and break the surface of the 'clump' of ink, meaning that it does flow down to the feed of the pen.

The lack of such an ink agitator device in Lamy's converters is the only 'design flaw' that I have found in their c/c system.

One needs to use something that is not corrodible by ink.

Some people have had great success by using the little plastic balls that can be found inside many 'standard international' cartridges - although one would first have to make sure that they aren't so small that they can fall out of the front of the Lamy converter!
Other people have added stainless steel springs, or stainless steel ball-bearings.

 

If you use a small ball-bearing, you need to be aware that it can block the flow of ink/water through the pen - especially if one is flushing the pen.

Parker's cheaper modern converters contain a ball-bearing that can do exactly that.
I once had explosive 'hilarious consequences' when trying to flush water through one of my Parker pens (fairly vigorously) using one of those converters.

The experience taught me that I always need to point the pen's nib upwards (so that the ball-bearing rolls down, away from the feed-nipple) when I am expelling water using the converter.

 

[Azulado]

@Mercian I have just introduced a spring that, if memory serves me correctly, belonged to a Jinhao charger and early tests are quite promising. The flow is stable, but I don't want to say that the problem is solved until a few days have passed.
After your reply, I saw a 2014 FPN thread about this problem. I also had a Parker converter of the kind you mention. The pellet on the Pelikan cartridges seemed small to me.
In any case, there are things that continue to puzzle me. This does not happen on all Lamy converters. I have a recently purchased Lamy St 45 that uses a converter and it performs flawlessly. I also use them on several Safaris, an Al star and a Nexx. They may occasionally have the occasional small problem, but the Aion I have not seen.
@Dillo noted that the Schmidt and Lamy converters are very similar. However there is one difference, the diameter of the muzzle. The Schmidt, Kaweco, Pelikan or Scnheider never fail. Could this be an influencing factor?
Hongdian uses a spring in its converters and the muzzle diameter is similar to that of Parker and Lamy. Pilot decided to put a metal part in the CON 50.
Lamy has made millions of converters, it is impossible that they have not detected the problem, even if it only affects a part of the magazines. Before the development of the plans is completed, a lot of tests are done.

Unlike most Lamy models, the inside of the mouth of the converter rubs against the nipple. On my Aion, I don't even notice anything, when it reaches the bottom there is a suction cup effect. The attachment is secure, you have to pull hard to get the converter out.

I thank you and  @Dillo for your help. I have been looking for a solution for years. It was the only one of my pens that was not working properly.
Now I hope to get lucky and that the owner of an Aion will tell me if his unit has the same characteristics as mine.

[Mercian]

19 minutes ago, Azulado said:

@Dillo noted that the Schmidt and Lamy converters are very similar. However there is one difference, the diameter of the muzzle. The Schmidt, Kaweco, Pelikan or Scnheider never fail. Could this be an influencing factor?

 

I wouldn't have thought so - only the internal diameter of the converter's ink-chamber (along with the microscopic-scale texture/cleanness of the insides of the walls of the converter) ought to have any effect on whether or not any ink's surface-tension is strong enough to make it 'clump' at the piston end of the converter.

For what it is worth, I have also seen people report having had this problem with Waterman converters, which ought to have openings of very similar sizes to those made by Schmidt, Pelikan, et al.

E.g. SBRE Brown had this happen with a Waterman converter when he was reviewing a Waterman Carène in the 'Black Sea' CT finish → link ← (see timestamp 9:12 onwards).

[Azulado]

Regarding the erratic operation of the Z26 in the Aion, I would like to point out the following:

1. The pen very rarely stops writing. It is as if there are three modes of writing that alternate, dry, medium and wet. Sometimes you don't even need to shake the pen, you notice that the ink went into the feeder in large quantity, the lines suddenly become dark.

2. The ink does not always clump on the side opposite the mouth. There are times when the ink moves freely and the problems continue. I have seen ink caking in Schmidt type converters without any negative influence on the flow.

3. I have found that cleaning with dishwashing detergent reduces the surface tension, but has not completely eliminated the problem.

4. It is not uncommon for Lamy converters that work well to fail when there is very little ink left.

Most of my inks have a high surface tension, but I have a low tension Pelikan Edelstein Aventurine and will try it at some point to see how it performs.

 

[Mercian]

11 minutes ago, Azulado said:

Regarding the erratic operation of the Z26 in the Aion, I would like to point out the following:

1. The pen very rarely stops writing. It is as if there are three modes of writing that alternate, dry, medium and wet. Sometimes you don't even need to shake the pen, you notice that the ink went into the feeder in large quantity, the lines suddenly become dark.

2. The ink does not always clump on the side opposite the mouth. There are times when the ink moves freely and the problems continue. I have seen ink caking in Schmidt type converters without any negative influence on the flow.

 

Hmm.

That makes it sounds as though one or more channels in the feed of your pen is blocked by something.

 

I think that I would be minded to pull the feed out of the pen, and give its two pieces (if it's the same feed that is used in the Safari, Vista, etc) a good clean with a soft old toothbrush, using dish soap in water.
And then rinse all the surfactant off the feed with plain water before putting it back in to the pen.

 

I do hope that other owners of Aions will contribute to this thread, and let you know whether they have (or have not) experienced this problem.

 

Good luck