Pilot 823 vs. 845

[davisgt]

I have the Pilot Custom 823. One of my favorite pens. I've noticed the Custom 845 is MUCH more expensive.  Is it really that much nicer than the 823? Urushi finish is nice and all, but I'm seeing as much as a $400 US difference in the price. Thoughts?

[mke]

No, the price probably doesn't automatically indicate that something is better.

 

The materials used to make the more expensive pen could be more expensive (e.g. precious metal vs precious resin) or in the case of the 845 it has more gold than the 823.

A cheaper pen could be made in higher numbers, it could also have less manual work included. Jinhao 9019 is produced in 100k+ numbers (I read) while the MB149 or Sailor KoP are certainly produced in much smaller quantities (assumed).

 

Or it simply has more snake oil involved. 

 

Stay with the 823 if you don't change the ink every few minutes. Especially as you say you like it.

 

 

 

 

[Mechanical]

6 hours ago, davisgt said:

Urushi finish is nice and all, but I'm seeing as much as a $400 US difference in the price. Thoughts?

 

Just my two cents... I think the cost is because you're buying urushi.  It's an intrinsically expensive material. I've heard a tree produces, maybe, a cup of sap each year and then it is processed over a period of years to produce the raw lacquer.  Applying it to the ebonite is done by hand, there are multiple coats, properly drying in between, and a final polishing.  I'm sure I'm not doing this justice.

 

As a similar example, a Seiko Presage automatic watch (around $500) has the same movement as a the Seiko Presage with urushi dial face.  I'm pretty sure that's right.  But the urushi model costs around $2000.  You're getting the same quality of timekeeping in both cases.  But that Urushi dial face really does look amazing.

 

So, I'm pretty sure, the reason to buy is for its beauty.  :-)

[mke]

Sorry, but the explanatron is not entirely true.

Urushi is never been used as pure urushi but as a mixture from 10-?0% urushi with other resins.

 

And as long as Pilot doesn't confirm that it is applied by hand, you can assume it is applied by spraying with low-contrated urushi formulations.

 

Traditional lacquerware is hand-coated with urushi. But also here, be cautious. Do they use Japanese urushi or cheaper Chinese/Vietnamese urushi?

 

Experts like Martin @Manupropria can probably tell you more.

[Mechanical]

@mke, good to know.  But can they really just spray on lacquer and get this kind of surface?

 

Pretty much all of the authorized US vendors say that the 845 is lacquered via "numerous hand painted layers." Perhaps the thing to do is confirm with Pilot before buying.

 

 

 

[mke]

2 hours ago, Mechanical said:

Pretty much all of the authorized US vendors say that the 845 is lacquered via "numerous hand painted layers."

 

They should have better information than me. But Pilot doesn't say so on their homepage, they just mention that it is urushi-lacquered. 🤔🤔🤔

So if someone is close to Goulet or another vendor who carries the 845, perhaps asking would be nice.

 

Spray-coating followed by polishing is nothing spectacular, that is done since ages. 

 

Just saw the price of the 845 for the first time since years. A few years ago that was the price of a Pilot Custom Urushi.