How are Pelikan fountain pens and nibs to write with?

[Penguincollector]

  Grey inks tend to be pretty dry, I just inked my new M605 F with Edelstein Moonstone and the line it’s producing is on the narrower side of fine. 

   I had my M800 M ground into a needlepoint. It is super tiny now, and absolutely amazing. I highly recommend bespoke grinds. Plan a vacation around a pen show or in store nib  grinding events- they’re super fun, everyone has been wonderful so far at my local, and you’ll learn so much (PS, no sales tax in Oregon, pen show is in July, and Oblation, one of our local shops has nibmeister events several times per year)!

[mke]

I wonder that some people recommend, without hesitation, a Japanese EF to someone who has a Pelikan F.

At least you should tell about the huge differences: Pelikan F > Pelikan EF > Japanese F > Japanese EF

These Japanese EFs are three levels finer than the experienced Pelikan F. 

 

 

 

[davisgt]

Yeah. I wish I had known this before I bought my M600. I ordered a medium. That damn nib is a firehose. I learned my lesson.  The M800 I ordered was a fine.  Still a little broad for my taste but manageable with the Pelikan 4001 ink. If I ever get another Pelikan, I'll order an EF. Might just order an EF nib for the M600, although that pen is a little small for my hand. 

[USG]

19 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

 

I wouldn't be able to explain anything, but here is a good thread about it. 
Clic here to access the latest updated chart  

 

Straying away from the Pelikan topic (as I only have one and don't really intend to buy some more for now), I noticed not all the pens react the same to different inks with various behaviours. Sometimes you look at data above and think it will be a match made in heaven, but...no. There's more than meet the eye.

 

I've read the thread and Ines tried to explain it to me but I still don't have a decent understanding of the relationships between "dry", "high surface tension", and "high viscosity" ink.

 

What I do know is what BBO said on the previous page...

 

"A dry ink like 4001, will make a normal pen, even Pelikan,  write up to 1/2 a width narrower...a good slick paper like Clairefontaine Triomphe or Rhoda, will also make a nib write up to 1/2 a width narrower.  A wet ink and common 80g copy paper, a full width wider."

[Lithium466]

21 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

I had no problems, even found out how to make Golden Sands. I was not satisfied with, tilt to see glitter, when filled from the top of a shaken bottle...immediately.

 

 I'd not had clogging at all, from any of my 6-7 glitter inks. I mostly use my Pelikans, in I have the most of them.

To get more glitter....worked well with Golden Lapis..........

Shake the bottle, let it start settling some half a minute or more, and fill from the bottom. I was using a Pelikan, don't know right now which, in I have 35. It gave me Golden Sands, no need to tilt to see.

 

Diamine Arctic Blue gave good no tilt glitter. Fill from the top like normal. I really like that ink.

 

The other 4 Diamine glitter inks I have didn't improve from shake, wait and fill from the bottom. They are tilt to see the glitter.

 

I don't worry about left over glitter, in I find a similar non glitter ink and use that to clean out the remains.

Somehow Golden Lapis is the only one that gave me trouble (I only have some Diamine shimmer inks to compare with). The only way I can use it long term is if I fill without shimmer. I tried with the least amount of shimmer I could get, by shaking and patiently waiting for most of the shimmer particles to settle, while watching with a bright light, and got something usable, but still with irregular flow.
Probably I'd need wetter pens, or something like that.

[PhiloPlume]

22 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

Grey inks tend to be pretty dry, I just inked my new M605 F with Edelstein Moonstone and the line it’s producing is on the narrower side of fine. 

   I had my M800 M ground into a needlepoint. It is super tiny now, and absolutely amazing. I highly recommend bespoke grinds. Plan a vacation around a pen show or in store nib  grinding events- they’re super fun, everyone has been wonderful so far at my local, and you’ll learn so much (PS, no sales tax in Oregon, pen show is in July, and Oblation, one of our local shops has nibmeister events several times per year)!

I like grey inks.  I have a few and use them.  Nice change from black, blue, blue-black, purple, purple-black.  I have always wanted to go to Oregon but it is just me now and the dogs so not going to happen.  I always wanted to fish there.  Never seen Oregon or the coast.  I just searched for pen shows in Montana 2025 and nothing (of course). 

 

I put Pelikan 4001 lilac ink in my 800 yesterday and not much difference.  I will use it for some things I guess.

 

Thanks!

[PhiloPlume]

6 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

Probably I'd need wetter pens, or something like that.

Me too I guess because I am not at all impressed with Golden Lapis whatsoever, not even in a medium nib.  Writes a very dark blue with not much shimmer or flecks.

[Bo Bo Olson]

27 minutes ago, PhiloPlume said:

a very dark blue with not much shimmer or flecks.

Do not fill from the top of a just shaken bottle.

Shake well, wait 30 seconds or even a minute for the glitter to start settling out, then fill from the bottom of the bottle.

From that I got Golden Sands.

 

And I highly recommend Diamine Arctic Blue...an ink with much shimmer, with the normal shake and fill from the top.

My other 4 Diamine glitter inks (some 4 years old) didn't improve with shake, wait and fill from the bottom.

[PhiloPlume]

46 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Do not fill from the top of a just shaken bottle.

Shake well, wait 30 seconds or even a minute for the glitter to start settling out, then fill from the bottom of the bottle.

From that I got Golden Sands.

 

And I highly recommend Diamine Arctic Blue...an ink with much shimmer, with the normal shake and fill from the top.

My other 4 Diamine glitter inks (some 4 years old) didn't improve with shake, wait and fill from the bottom.

Good stuff!  Thanks! I did not know about that. I always thought I had to shake it to get the flecks mixed before filling the pen.

 

I don't have that blue of theirs.  Polar Blue though.  Love their Night Sky.  Tied with Colorverse Shiny Black. Edelstein Sapphire Blue is probably my favorite blue, although not really a true blue.  Their swatches on their boxes usually are not anything like the actual color of the ink in the bottle though.

 

Thanks!  I will order it.  I am always looking for another blue for some reason, even though I probably have two dozen blue inks 🙂

[Bo Bo Olson]

You do have to shake the bottle. It's the wait of half, to a full minute to let the glitter start settling before going through the cloud to get the rain at the bottom.

The bottle has to be shaken, one don't want to dredge up the glitter mud.

Glad to be of help.

 

At all costs, stay away from the feather champ, pure INK JET papers. Ink Jet ink has to be absorbed very rapidly, so feathers with fountain pen ink.

Fountain pen ink sits for a second or so on top of the paper. Shading ink does that, where the ink is deeper the ink shows up darker.

I do like two toned shading inks....which need at least 90 paper outside some Japanese and Rhoda.

I prefer pure laser paper, but often one has to get Laser and Ink Jet. Some like Southworth are good.

 

You do need to get a ream, half a ream or a1 00 sheet box of good to better paper, to match the buying of three inks.

Then, sooner than you think, you will have many dance floors for your ink.

 

Clairefontaine Triomphe and Rhoda are slick papers that you need...at least one. I was when noobie, frightened off by the cost of good paper, but I got lucky and got a starter set; at an economical price.

Those type of papers never go into a printer. So in the long run, good paper is affordable. The more good papers you have, the less you use; because you have other good papers.

 

I can't help you more with the paper. I live in Germany and don't know much about US paper. Mohawk makes a good one. Crane has come back to good FP paper, but was then expensive, so will be again.

 

Go over to the paper section and get some advice.

 

[PhiloPlume]

Well, anyway, this is my next pen: Visconti Checkmate Fountain Pen (Limited Edition).  It's only $5,400 at goulet pens?  Have you seen it?  I don't think you write with it.  It has magnetic chess pieces sticking out of it on a chessboard.  I would get it, but if it wrote too thick for my tastes too ,like my Pelikan m800, Goulet will not take it back for a refund once there has been ink in it?  Can you believe they would do that? 🙂

 

it is at their domain name plus /products/visconti-checkmate-fountain-pen-limited-edition

 

Attached is a pic lol!

 

I think the pieces need to be removed before writing with it since they are magnets. 🙂  It does come in fine though.  Do Visconti pens run wide?

 

[PhiloPlume]

5 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

At all costs, stay away from the feather champ, pure INK JET papers. Ink Jet ink has to be absorbed very rapidly, so feathers with fountain pen ink.

Nah - not this HP Premium 32#.  It's not like the rest of them.  Professional calligraphers use it too. Not quite fountain pen paper though. 

 

Anyway, it is primarily for laser printers.

 

[JonDoh]

Pelikans are some of the smoothest writing fountain pens you can buy.  The 200 model uses a steel nib and that could account for the scratchiness.  It's the only model that uses steel.

[JonDoh]

On 11/12/2024 at 11:35 PM, USG said:

 

I have some experience with a Kaigelu 316A and Jinhao X159s in EF. These EFs are very fine and very smooth.  They're not expensive pens, but if you've never experienced a Jinaho X159 you owe it to yourself to try one.😀

 

CLICK TO ENLARGE

I've tried several Jinaho X159's and I agree they write smooth but all of them had ink flow problems.  The reviews on Amazon bear this issue out so it's just not me.  In fact, all the Chinese brand pens I tried (because they were so cheap) had ink flow issues.  I kept several that were really beautiful to display in my pen box but I can't use them due to the ink flow issues.  You truly do get what you pay for with pens.

[Bo Bo Olson]

10 minutes ago, JonDoh said:

The 200 model uses a steel nib and that could account for the scratchiness.  It's the only model that uses steel.

I used to rave about how grand the steel/gold plated 200's nibs were....until they ruined the clean line teardrop tipped nib, with the double ball nib some 5-6 years ago. Wrote many a rave for it.

 

No, the springy 200's teardrop steel or gold-plated nib is a regular flex nib that matches equally the '82-97 14 k nibs of the 400 and small 600, which were also teardrop tipped nibs.

 

If scratchy, look to see if it's misaligned.

Take your 10 X good glass loop or = 40X Chinese loop, and see which side of the nib is up, and which side is down.

 

With your thumbnail at the start of the breather hole, push down the upside of the nib, and hold it just under the low tine for 2 seconds...up to three times. That should cure your scratchiness, caused by misalignment.

 

(It is very seldom the low nib needs to be lifted...if so lift at the shoulder, above the up nib, for again that 2 seconds, up to three times....do check between.)

 

There are many steel nibs as good as gold nibs.... It depends on the era.

A nail is a nail, be it gold or steel.

A gold nail is not softer to your feel, than a steel nail.....a nail is a nail.

Chemically, perhaps, but that is beyond your hand's measuring capability.

 

I can go back in to Vintage nibs and match an Osmia steel nib with any '50-60's gold nib. Be that semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex. Osmia nibs are grand.

 

In semi-vintage nibs...'82-97 gold nibs, the springy 200's steel nib does match anyone's springy gold nib. Pelikan, MB or not.

 

Modern, '98 to now ... after Pelikan had Bock ruin it's gold nibs to Pelikan's very own new spec's, outside the 1000, the 200's nib remained ravings worth.

When Pelikan took it's nibs Back In House....everyone was waiting for a return to the nice and springy '82-97 nib. And nothing changed, but the Bock's semi-flex 1000's semi-flex nib became just a springy regular flex. .... Like a 200.

 

Now it, the 200 has too been ruined by a double ball; which is why I now only order Pelikan 200 Limited Editions in EF's only. F and wider can have the fat and blobby, fuzzy line of a double ball nib .....so can an EF, but I'll notice it less.

 

In spite of now having a blobby, double ball nib tipping, the 200 remains one of the few springy nibs still made. It still has a comfortable ride.

It is from my reading, in I don't have, nor ever will have Japanese pens...having enough on my plate with German.

The Pilot mod, half moon ground at the shoulders..."soft" nib is not as good, nor as springy a ride as the 200. Even the ruined nib....the ride is better with a 200.

('70 late 90's MB, or the '82-97 Pelikan are also great springy, comfortable riding, clean line nibs, being teardrop.

 

Yes, vintage and semi-vintage nibs are better than most modern. And mostly such old pens hold up well, outside of needing an occasional gasket.... I've lots of pens from those era's with perfectly sound gasket. Hey, any of those pens with the old great nibs is worth a case of beer for a new gasket.

 

I have to admit, one might need a new gasket if having a '38-55 German piston pen. That was Plastic Gasket 1.0. In 1955, Plastic Gasket 2.0 came in; the same gasket that is still now used.

 

You should have read my raves back before they ruined the teardrop 200's nib; with the double ball nib.

My suggestion for the rest, is buying an old used teardrop tipped 200, for lots less money for a superior nib. For the fella with the scratchy misaligned 200 nib....align it.

 

 

[USG]

12 hours ago, JonDoh said:

I've tried several Jinaho X159's and I agree they write smooth but all of them had ink flow problems.  The reviews on Amazon bear this issue out so it's just not me.  In fact, all the Chinese brand pens I tried (because they were so cheap) had ink flow issues.  I kept several that were really beautiful to display in my pen box but I can't use them due to the ink flow issues.  You truly do get what you pay for with pens.

 

You didn't describe what you meant by flow problems but I more or less agree with you.  The Mediums, for the most part, were dry writers out of the box, (I mean Plastic Wrapper) and needed a little adjustment to increase the flow to what I like, which then made the pen prone to feathering on cheap paper.  The Fines were usually wet enough writers and so were the EFs but it's so easy to increase the flow that I do it without thinking. The same goes for making sure the tines are aligned.  I did notice that some inks had flow problems and and some wouldn't write at all, but I never attributed that to the fault of the pen because it would write with a standard ink like Waterman Blue.  It took quite a bit of adjustment to get Sailor Manyo Nekoyanagi, for instance, to come out of the pen at all, and even then it still wasn't reliable.  However, after sitting in the pen for a for a week or so, it settled in enough to be able to write.

 

 

[Inkyways]

Japanese pens in F/ EF are great nibs. I have many pens of Sailor/ Platinum/ Pilot. The nibs are from M-Ef. I find the Sailor M nibs are boring so I am planing to grind them to EF one day. I wish I had a Pilot pen in UEF.

I also have two  pilot Elabo Falcon.  One SEF and a SF. I like how they write. 

I also like to try a Platinum with UEF.

 

I have a few Pelikan pens. ( 200m /400N) I like the Pelikan 200F nib. It is a favourite nib .although it is Steel. I bought a Ef nib but I can't see much different between the two. I prefer to have a vintage 200m or 400n with a extra fine. as that is the best pen to have. 

I guess a modern Pelikan 200/ 400/ 600 M with a EF will give the same experience as a 200m EF pen.

[mke]

On 1/10/2025 at 5:16 AM, JonDoh said:

In fact, all the Chinese brand pens I tried (because they were so cheap) had ink flow issues.

You should name the brands and the nib sizes you tried.

 

But I can tell you that not a single one of my Jinhao Dadao 9019 EF nor any Hongdian in EF nor any Majohn A1 in EF has any ink flow problems (my typical inks are Waterman, Pelikan 4001, Pilot Iroshizuku and a number of Sailors). From my Jinhao 10, one of eight has problems (excessive drying out) but it could be also the ink (the culprit is not yet identified).

 

 

 

 

 

[mke]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:07 AM, Inkyways said:

I wish I had a Pilot pen in UEF.

Pilot doesn't have an UEF. Check here: https://www.pilot-custom.jp/en/feature/nib.html

 

On 1/11/2025 at 1:07 AM, Inkyways said:

Platinum with UEF

I tried a 3776 in UEF and EF and didn't find it to be identifiable different. The difference between F and EF was clearly visible.