How are Pelikan fountain pens and nibs to write with?

[davisgt]

Perhaps you could purchase just the nib unit of your choice for the 1911S you don't use. If you purchased the pen recently,  perhaps the vendor would be willing to make a nib exchange.  Just a thought.  

[Azulado]

I have one Pelikan M200 (M) and two M150 (M and F). They are all very soft pens, different from all the others I have. Their nibs are unique. 
However, on the two M150s, the nibs scratched because of the edge of the slit. I have micro-meshed exclusively in that area and now they write excellently.
 I haven't tried any of the Japanese ones that other forumers refer to, but I can't imagine anything smoother. 
For smoothing, don't touch the contact surface, as you would kill the personality of the nib. They are also very well polished. Richard Binder explains it very well, just the edge of the slit. No eights. It's a complicated operation because you have to lift the nibs a bit to be able to pass the sandpaper. Imagine, there is hardly any space. But with patience it can be done. Be careful, it is only to remove almost microscopic burrs, be careful with the micro mesh. The best thing to do would be to have micro mesh sticks. 
As for the width of the nibs, they seem to me to be standard European, similar to Kaweco or Lamy. 

http://www.richardspens.com/pdf/workshop_notes.pdf

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

IMO a scratchy Pelikan is caused by the nib being misaligned by the robot football kicker kicking a display case across the post office.....happens often...Never hear of that happening in a B&M.

 

I was just really enjoying a nice springy Pelikan 200 LE Amaythist in a nice springy B nib with the then teardrop tipped nib.

 

Sadly the grand 200nib  has been ruined by the double ball...that came in for the 200 some 5-6 years ago. Get one before that with a tear drop tip....thinner, cleaner line and being used a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

Same 200's tear drop tipped =same springiness as the '82-97 gold nibs.

 

After Pelikan went over to the stiffer (but for the 1000) double ball nibs in '98, all double ball nibs are fat and blobby. Nibs that use to be nice springy regular flex became semi-nails...400/600 and the 800 became a nail.

 

I have hand full of semi-vintage and another had ful of vintage...the factory stubbed semi-flex is @ as wide per width as the semi-vintage....half a width narrower than the fat and blobby double ball.

 

I find the old pens to be smooth enough....and leave a nice clean line.

The double ball nib is often over polished into baby bottom...something you don't hear abou the old nibs....more than likely sent in for repair if ever.

 

Suggest buying post '55 Plastic Gasket 2.0 pens....10 years of the grand 400nn....and don't buy any that are older than '97.....out side the 200 up to 6 years ago.

 

I expect a plastic gasket 2.0 to last 100 or more years so a 1956 Pelikan 400nn is only 68 years old so you have another 38 years with out problems....more or less.

[Targa]

On 11/12/2024 at 10:18 PM, PhiloPlume said:

Thank you!  I already have too many fine point pens that write like a medium or even a broad so I am going to pass.  They are probably so smooth because of the more ink the nibs are putting out.

 

They are smooth regardless, in my experience.  In any event ink flow is readily tunable.  Although you can send pens off for someone to work on and return months later, only to find you liked it better before, it's best, IMHO, to just learn to do it yourself.  In fact it is one of the graetest pleasuers of FP using - you get to play with it like a toy.  

In the case of Pelikan 800 nibs, you can generally slow the ink down a bit simply by massaging down the tines with your fingers, and maybe a little pressue on the shoulders.  Of course too much pressure and you can splay the tip, so, gentle.  If it needs heavier work, the nib is easily removed - unscrew the nib/feed unit, then press the nib and feed out of the ring that clamps them together.  You can then work at the nib slit width.  One of my favourite approaches is to use a once-folded bit of post-it note paper, cut to a thin pointy triangle.  Slip that into the nib slit, so just a fraction of a mm is left open at the point, then using fingernails (or if you are very very careful, plastic pliers) to gently press the nib tips together.  

I will attach a couple of pics to show what the nib should look like when seen from underneath, some backlit.  (not Pelikans, but same idea)

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Pelikan made the driest inks made by a major manufacture 4001. So they made wetter nibs to match that.

Back in the Day, Waterman made wet inks, so made thinner nibs than Pelikan nibs. Use to have flame wars until Japanese pens stopped being nitch.

 

There are Noodler ink users that think Waterman is dry ink!

 

A dry ink will cause a pen to write 1/2 a width narrower.

A slick paper will make a ink write 1/2 a width narrower.

 

Using a modern Pelikan nib, with a wet ink will make for fat nibs.

..............

If you are real heavy into spiderwebs and baby spiderwebs, stay with Japanese pens.

 

A wide wet nib is real good for classic rough laid or linen effect papers. some inks really show off in M....but you want to narrow to two tone shade nibs...go Japanese. Can't use wet Japanese inks, in they will make your skinny nib run fat.

Defiantly can suggest dry 4001 inks with Japaneses narrow nibs....for as narrow as it can get until a slick paper is added.

[PhiloPlume]

On 11/14/2024 at 1:10 PM, davisgt said:

Perhaps you could purchase just the nib unit of your choice for the 1911S you don't use. If you purchased the pen recently,  perhaps the vendor would be willing to make a nib exchange.  Just a thought.  

How/where does someone purchase different nibs for Sailor Pens?

 

I am glad you posted this because I took the pen apart, including the nib, and soaked the nib in windex over night getting rid of the Noodler's Purple that was in the nib and converter.  I then rinsed and put it back together and put Waterman's purple in it and the pen writes so nice now!!!  Wow!  I love it now!  Still pretty tiny but I am going to keep using it.  The fine nib writes like a smooth extra-fine.  Perfect.

 

[PhiloPlume]

On 11/13/2024 at 6:57 AM, davisgt said:

Platinum is the brand (like Sailor or Pilot) and President is the model. You can find some really good prices online for these pens. Definitely cheaper than my beloved Pelikans. 😁

I bought two extra-fines and I think they are great so far.  The nib is a real extra-fine and they write very smooth. I am very impressed! I am also impressed with the $10 (!!) Jinhao X159 extra-fine nibbed pens.  Wow to those too!

 

Thank you!

[davisgt]

Excellent! I'm thrilled my post helped. I also love my Platinum President with the EF nib, which is currently inked along with my Sailor 1911L and my Pelikan M800. I just need to ink my Pilot Custom 823, and I'll have the Grand Slam of pens in use. Honestly,  though, I can't believe I don't have at least one of my Waterman pens inked. They are feeling very lonely as of late. 

[PhiloPlume]

On 11/24/2024 at 6:42 PM, davisgt said:

Pelikan M80

I just spent about an hour looking at reviews of Pelikan pens and the different models but not sure if I want a Pelikan.  They seem to write wet and wider than Sailors and others.  I guess I would get the EF nib on a Pelikan if I do. 

 

Hmmm.....

[inkstainedruth]

Pelikan nibs tend to write wetter as a way to counteract the general dryness of their inks.  
My first bird was a 1990s era M400 Brown Tortoise with an F nib, bought off eBay for a special occasion.  I had thought to maybe use the pen for drawing with, and originally filled it with Iroshizuku Yama-guri.  But that ink was WAAAAY too wet for the pen -- it was a firehose.  But that wet-writing pen SAVED the bottle I had of Noodler's Walnut (which I had originally put in a pen that turned out to be a dry writer).  And that M400 Brown Tortoise also does very well with Edelstein Topaz -- which is, as it turns out, a pretty close match color-wise to Yama-guri....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[PhiloPlume]

56 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

Pelikan nibs tend to write wetter as a way to counteract the general dryness of their inks.  

And not other brands?  I have a bunch of Pelikan inks in other pens and like them very much.  Except those like Golden Lapis which writes almost black since I don't use medium or broad or larger nibs.

[inkstainedruth]

Well, I think the Edelstein line runs a little wetter than the standard 4001 inks Pelikan makes.  

I have not had a chance to try Golden Lapis, even though I got a bottle of it as swag at this year's Pelikan Hub.  But I'd be somewhat hesitant to put ANY shimmer ink in even a medium nib (let alone anything finer) for fear of clogging the feed.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[PhiloPlume]

1 hour ago, inkstainedruth said:

But I'd be somewhat hesitant to put ANY shimmer ink in even a medium nib (let alone anything finer) for fear of clogging the feed.

I have been lucky so far I guess Ruth putting shimmer ink in fine and medium nibs.  They just don't shimmer and look much darker than what they are supposed to look like.  Same with glitter type ink.  I end up flushing out the pens eventually and putting regular ink in them. I think I have "outgrown" the "novelty" inks any way.  Those are for kids! 🙂

 

Those fancy inks are for large nibs and for writing "signs" as far as I am concerned.  I just write mostly personal size stuff 🙂

 

Thanks

[Bo Bo Olson]

2 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

ell, I think the Edelstein line runs a little wetter than the standard 4001 inks Pelikan makes.  

Me too.

 

 

But I don't worry about glitter inks in my Pelikans...Can if there was a problem...none yet, dilute the glitter with a similar color ink.

 

If you insist on using wet Japanese inks....wet because of the extremely narrow nibs, then Pelikan will be wet and wider.

Back when there were flame wars between Pelikan change your nib, vs Waterman is skinnier....Waterman made a wet inks so had to make for then, a narrow nib.

 

That was before Japanese pens stopped being nitch, and moved into the main line, with thier Waterman is a fat nib...super skinny nibs. Some 12 years or so ago.

 

Japanese nibs print a tiny script so are mis-marked if one grew up with US or Euro pens, a width too narrow.....Their F=western EF.

 

Of course if you started out with Japanese pens, ALL Euro nibs will be fat.

If you print....stay with your Japanese pens and inks.

Do stay away from classic rough laid or linen effect paper....super narrow nibs don't work well on those two types of papers.... A Euro M and B's are fun with those papers.

 

For me narrow nibs...ie Western EF don't give much two toned shading with shading inks.

F can do, M does better. Shading needs dry inks, on good paper, 90g/24 pounds or better papers.

 

There are drier inks...like Herbin, R&K...Pelikan 4001....and if you got money to burn, over priced gouging MB inks (middle of the road Euro/US dry)...........mine are from before when they were somewhat expensive....Not got to keep up with the Jones....Graf von Faber Castell, or C d'A...and for me over here in Germany the same €30-35 price Japanese inks.   MB inks that cost €15, jumped to 19 and then to 23 in two years.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Half a width narrower than modern Pelikans; are factory stub semi-flex nibs from 1950-65. They write with a clean line.

The tear drop tipped 1982-97 are also a half a width narrower and a springy regular flex, and write with a clean line...a bit better from my reading than the ground out shoulders of a Pilot 'soft' nib.

@ 5-6 years ago the great  '85-2018 springy tear drop was turned into a double ball.....cubed. It too use to have a nice clean line.

 

I don't like the fat and blobby double ball nibs, that started in 1998...........and they went to a stiffer nib too. Not as clean a line as vintage and semi-vintage.

 

I do suggest buying a used Pelikan that is vintage '50-65, (holds 2.0ml) or a springy regular flex 82-97 (holds 1.25.)

Of the pens a 400nn is great....a medium-long pen...It took me only 3 years to decide the 400nn, had a slight bit better balance than a 400.

 

Cheapest would be an older 200 (holds 1.25ml)....and then the nibs are running  @ €36 (in case over the years you decide you want to go wider than needlepoint. It balances and and writes like the semi-vintage 400...the 400 does feel a bit better having better plastic. Get a 200...EF and send it off to be made EEF. Any width you can find...more than likely a Western M would be easier and cheaper to find, in you are going to have it ground down to a needle point.

 

..............................IMO you lose so much ink fun...with  Japanese narrow nibs.

[PhiloPlume]

Well I recently bought a green Pelikan m800 with an extra-fine nib and saw a review of the nib and pen that said it writes like a western medium nib.  It does. That is two nib sizes larger.  I had Pelikan sapphire ink in it but decided to change to an iron gall (forget the brand ) to see if it would write smaller.  Not sure it does.

 

It is smooth but it is putting out quite a bit of ink for an extra-fine.  This will be my last Pelikan pen. I won't be using it much as it writes too wide for my style of handwriting and note taking.

 

I wish I found that review before I spent so much money on it.

[USG]

My first Pelikan M800 medium wrote like a western broad.

My second Pelikan M800 medium was a western medium.

My third Pelikan M800 fine was a western fine.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 12/30/2024 at 3:33 AM, PhiloPlume said:

I wish I found that review before I spent so much money on it.

If you post a medium large thicker girthed than the 200/400...thinner than the 800.....600 will take both a tear drop tipped gold 400 or gold plated or steel 200 nib which are both springy regular flex with same width nib, which is half a width narrowr than the fat and blobby double ball nibs of post '97.

 

The gold factory stubbed semi-flex 400-400nn, 1950-65 will fit the modern 200/400/600 pens. It too is 1/2 a width narrower than the modern fat and blobby nib.

 

PhiloPlume....It's unfortunate you have an 800....it is possible to ask the US pen store folk (being over in Germany I don't know them)....or Penboard.de, for a narrower than the old tear drop tipped 400/200, nib..........for the 800.

 

The 800, which between '89-97 had it's very own tear drop nib that was narrower than the regular 400/200/600 tear drop nibs. 

 

Lost on my computer is an old '90's nib width chart...with that info. It was before Japanese pens made it into the main stream, in Waterman was listed as the narrowest. Parker and Shaffer were both then wider than Pelikan. Much less the 800......................that of couse was before those dratted double ball nibs.

Tear drop tipping or factory stub semi-flex write with a nice clean line. The double ball don't.

.........................

I have two 800s, and find that a posted 600 has much better balance. So do the posted 200/400's.

But I grew up in the era of standard sized pens, like the Esterbrook DJ, P-75 or Pelikan 400.

 

My after 2000, 800 is OBB so I'm not worried about narrow. My W.Germany small 400 size 600's OBB nib is 1/2 a width narrower than my later 800's OBB nib.

 

And I don't worry about it enough to test my W.Germany 800 OM vs an earlier '50-60's OM or a couple OF's I have of that era; to see if the W.Germany 800's OM nib matches the OF of the previous era.

 

 

[PhiloPlume]

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

If you post a medium large thicker girthed than the 200/400...thinner than the 800.....600 will take both a tear drop tipped gold 400 or gold plated or steel 200 nib which are both springy regular flex with same width nib, which is half a width narrowr than the fat and blobby double ball nibs of post '97.

 

The gold factory stubbed semi-flex 400-400nn, 1950-65 will fit the modern 200/400/600 pens. It too is 1/2 a width narrower than the modern fat and blobby nib.

I don't know what any of that means!! 🙂

[PhiloPlume]

6 hours ago, USG said:

My first Pelikan M800 medium wrote like a western broad.

My second Pelikan M800 medium was a western medium.

My third Pelikan M800 fine was a western fine.

Okay - I quit while I am "ahead" 🙂