How to tell the nib size on a vintage Montblanc

[fountainpenlov]

I'm looking at a few Montblanc Meisterstuck pens on ebay. The sellers claim the nib size to be whatever. But how can I know for sure? Why won't Montblanc mark the nibs with the size... instead of wasting space with overbranding, they could have added the nib size. 

 

Is there any way to know the nib size then?

[NoType]

1 hour ago, fountainpenlov said:

I'm looking at a few Montblanc Meisterstuck pens on ebay. The sellers claim the nib size to be whatever. But how can I know for sure? Why won't Montblanc mark the nibs with the size... instead of wasting space with overbranding, they could have added the nib size. 

 

Is there any way to know the nib size then?

@fountainpenlov Unfortunately, unless one has had a great deal of experience with comparing Montblanc nib widths, it is difficult to judge a particular nib width by sight.  Add the complication that because each nib is ground by hand by several dozen (55?) nib specialists that nib widths in any given size vary amongst the creators, and judging nib width is even more challenging.

 

For the vintage celluloid models (and perhaps some vintage resin pens), Montblanc engraved the nib width on the piston cone; for reasons best known only to Montblanc, in modern pens, Montblanc has eschewed this practice, as well as that of other manufacturers to stamp the width on the nib.

 

For modern pens, as posted recently by @Michael R. and @maia, Montblanc has recently offered a “nib guide:”

https://www.montblanc.com/Item/Index?cod10=1647597318088534&siteCode=MONTBLANC_US

To view, click on the link above, and then click on “nib guide” to the right of “2. Select a Nib Type.”

 

For vintage pens, the only advice I can proffer is to ask a seller to measure the width of the nibs via a precision instrument such as calipers with a digital display.  I apologise for not possessing further information, but I am certain other members with greater knowledge will share their insight.

 

 

 

[CS388]

Welcome to FPN.

 

The nibs are already cut, stamped, and tipped, before the tip is ground to size.

To stamp the nib size onto the nib would necessitate the finished nib taking a trip back down the production line. 

 

As NoType points out, experience is your best guide - and even then, experts will differ.

The three main grinds (F/M/B) have a distinctive cut to them, which becomes recognisable after time. Of course, then there are the obliques and other specials to factor into the equation.

 

Overbranding? Are you referring to the design on the nib? These designs are a single stamp on a flat nib blank. The nib type (model no.) may also be stamped, but it is often hidden beneath the section, on an assembled pen.

[NoType]

1 hour ago, CS388 said:

The nibs are already cut, stamped, and tipped, before the tip is ground to size.

To stamp the nib size onto the nib would necessitate the finished nib taking a trip back down the production line.

@CS388 Thank you for this succinct and logical summary of Montblanc’s 35-step nib creation process.  I had not thought of the implications to the production line of stamping the nib size.

[kazoolaw]

17 hours ago, fountainpenlov said:

I'm looking at a few Montblanc Meisterstuck pens on ebay. The sellers claim the nib size to be whatever. But how can I know for sure? Why won't Montblanc mark the nibs with the size... instead of wasting space with overbranding, they could have added the nib size. 

 

Is there any way to know the nib size then?

How can you know for sure?  You can’t.

Opinions vary, which is why you’ll see nibs described as a wide fine, or narrow medium.

Then you can marvel at Asian nibs being seen as narrower than European nibs.  Some MB nibs write with  a stubbish line, which is a matter for another day.

There’s also the phenomenon of the same nib producing different width lines depending on ink, paper, pressure, moon phases, etc.  (OK, last one is a bad joke). 
We won’t even talking about buying a nib that has been re-ground.

Nib width labels might be thought of a a range, not a single point.  
If you are new to FPs trying out several pens in person might be the best way to be sure you’re happy with your purchase.

[CS388]

1 hour ago, NoType said:

@CS388 Thank you for this succinct and logical summary of Montblanc’s 35-step nib creation process.  I had not thought of the implications to the production line of stamping the nib size.

 

Aside from the complex logistics of sending nibs back down the line, I think it would be nigh impossible, as the stamping takes place on a flat nib-blank.

By the time the nibs are ground and finished, they have been curved to shape, so would no longer fit into the extant stamping equipment.

[NoType]

50 minutes ago, CS388 said:

 

Aside from the complex logistics of sending nibs back down the line, I think it would be nigh impossible, as the stamping takes place on a flat nib-blank.

By the time the nibs are ground and finished, they have been curved to shape, so would no longer fit into the extant stamping equipment.

@CS388 Yes, that makes perfect sense.

 

The nib width would need to be decided early on in the process before the flat nib-blank was stamped.

[NoType]

2 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

Nib width labels might be thought of a a range, not a single point.

@kazoolaw Thank you for concisely phrasing what I was trying to get across earlier when mentioning the variation amongst different nib specialists at Montblanc.

 

2 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

you’ll see nibs described as a wide fine, or narrow medium

@kazoolaw Again, a great example of this variation and range in nib sizes.

 

2 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

Then you can marvel at Asian nibs being seen as narrower than European nibs.  Some MB nibs write with  a stubbish line, which is a matter for another day.

There’s also the phenomenon of the same nib producing different width lines depending on ink, paper, pressure, moon phases, etc.  (OK, last one is a bad joke). 
We won’t even talking about buying a nib that has been re-ground.

@kazoolaw This a helpful summary of points to consider beyond Montblanc nib sizes.  Thank you!

[fountainpenlov]

Thanks everyone, for your inputs. 

[kazoolaw]

18 hours ago, NoType said:

@kazoolaw Thank you for concisely phrasing what I was trying to get across earlier when mentioning the variation amongst different nib specialists at Montblanc.

 

@kazoolaw Again, a great example of this variation and range in nib sizes.

 

@kazoolaw This a helpful summary of points to consider beyond Montblanc nib sizes.  Thank you!

Anecdotally, here is a comment on the purchase of a modern MB:  “The medium nib seems a little narrower than my other MB M nibs”

[fountainpenlov]

4 hours ago, kazoolaw said:

Anecdotally, here is a comment on the purchase of a modern MB:  “The medium nib seems a little narrower than my other MB M nibs”

 

I always thought that nib sizes were standardized long ago. I see many fountain pen companies use millimeters to characterize nib size. 

 

0.5mm line = Fine

0.65mm line = Medium

0.9mm = Broad

 

Just as mechanical pencil leads have standard sizes like 0.5mm and 0.75mm leads.

 

There's no reason why nibs can't be QC'd in the 21st century. Despite all the good explanations given here.

Edited November 1, 2024 by fountainpenlov

[mulrich]

24 minutes ago, fountainpenlov said:

 

I always thought that nib sizes were standardized long ago. I see many fountain pen companies use millimeters to characterize nib size. 

 

0.5mm line = Fine

0.65mm line = Medium

0.9mm = Broad

 

Just as mechanical pencil leads have standard sizes like 0.5mm and 0.75mm leads.

 

There's no reason why nibs can't be QC'd in the 21st century. Despite all the good explanations given here.

Nibs vary quite a bit between manufacturers and they have basically no incentive to standardize across the industry. nibs.com has a handy comparison chart https://nibs.com/pages/tipping-size-comparison. 

I'm not sure how pencil leads are made but it doesn't surprise me that nibs from the same producer vary some in size. 

[NoType]

1 hour ago, fountainpenlov said:

 

I always thought that nib sizes were standardized long ago. I see many fountain pen companies use millimeters to characterize nib size. 

 

0.5mm line = Fine

0.65mm line = Medium

0.9mm = Broad

 

Just as mechanical pencil leads have standard sizes like 0.5mm and 0.75mm leads.

 

There's no reason why nibs can't be QC'd in the 21st century. Despite all the good explanations given here.

@fountainpenlov I understand your frustration, but I happen to take a different view.  For me, the slight nib width variation inherent amongst my Montblanc pens never fails to delight me, as each pen embodies an individual character and “comes alive” when I write.  

 

Variation in handmade products has historically been considered a boon in the post-industrial age; I recall that in the 1970’s, Rolls Royce differentiated themselves from the technically superior offerings of Mercedes-Benz by emphasising that it took one of three skilled artisans in the Rolls Royce atelier eight hours to handcraft a single hood grille, and that no two grilles, even from the same hand, ever were exactly the same.

 

One supposes it depends on perspective.  In these days of precise cookie-cutter products, I find the handmade quality of Montblanc nibs to be refreshing and a source of pleasure.

[NoType]

8 minutes ago, mulrich said:

Nibs vary quite a bit between manufacturers and they have basically no incentive to standardize across the industry. nibs.com has a handy comparison chart https://nibs.com/pages/tipping-size-comparison. 

I'm not sure how pencil leads are made but it doesn't surprise me that nibs from the same producer vary some in size. 

@mulrich Thank you for this informative link that shows variation of nib width across the brands, but I believe @fountainpenlov is expressing their frustration that amongst Montblanc nibs themselves, within this one maison, that there is no conformity in width for each size.

[fountainpenlov]

19 minutes ago, NoType said:

@fountainpenlov I understand your frustration, but I happen to take a different view.  For me, the slight nib width variation inherent amongst my Montblanc pens never fails to delight me, as each pen embodies an individual character and “comes alive” for me when I write.  

 

Variation in handmade products has historically been considered a boon in the post-industrial age; I recall that in the ‘70’s Rolls Royce differentiated themselves from the technically superior offerings of Mercedes-Benz by emphasising that it took one of three skilled artisans in the Rolls Royce atelier eight hours to handcraft a single hood grille, and that no two grilles, even from the same hand, ever were exactly the same.

 

One supposes it depends on perspective.  In these days of precise cookie-cutter products, I find the handmade quality of Montblanc nibs to be refreshing and a source of pleasure.

 

@NoType thanks for sharing the different perspective. I suppose you're right in a sense that most of us have become so conditioned to the industrialized uniformity of products and services, that we expect standardization, and deviation from industrial automated standards is often seen as backward. Although I myself have gotten custom handmade designs of other products, the variation in nib sizes somehow hadn't occurred to me as something desirable.

[DimitriDiak]

On 10/31/2024 at 9:55 AM, CS388 said:

 

The nibs are already cut, stamped, and tipped, before the tip is ground to size.

To stamp the nib size onto the nib would necessitate the finished nib taking a trip back down the production line. 

Well said … we need to look at this from a manufacturing logistics and efficiency perspective.

 

On 11/1/2024 at 1:02 PM, NoType said:

For me, the slight nib width variation inherent amongst my Montblanc pens never fails to delight me, as each pen embodies an individual character and “comes alive” when I write.  

I feel the same about nib variation. Initially, I thought line widths had to fit strictly within a narrow range, like 0.25 ± 0.05 mm, or they weren't acceptable but now that I view writing as an art, I’m more open to natural line variations, which bring both challenges and artistic expression to writing and the inherent joy of writing to life.

 

 

To add to the many great points already listed …

I believe they avoids stamping nib sizes  for practical reasons that enhance both manufacturing flexibility and the user experience.

 

By not marking nib sizes early in production, Montblanc keeps options open for fine-tuning.  A nib can be adjusted to meet performance standards rather than conforming strictly to a pre-stamped size. This flexibility allows nibs that might vary slightly from a precise width standard to still be used and further sorted or tuned in, enhancing overall efficiency and quality control.

 

Another consideration is customer expectation.  Since a fountain pen’s line width changes based on ink, paper, writing pressure, and hand orientation, a stamped nib size could lead to unrealistic expectations.  Without a rigid label, Montblanc allows each nib to perform with a versatility that is more in line with the natural variability of fountain pen writing.

 

There’s also the matter of custom nib modifications, which I personally prefer.  An unmarked nib is easier to re-grind without causing confusion.  Over time, I find that my nibs wear and change subtly from regular use, this flexibility becomes even more significant.

 

From a luxury brand perspective, the nib retains a timeless, elegant look that fits Montblanc’s focus on craftsmanship and personalization and the pen's focus on quality and experience over technical details.

[Karmachanic]

Nib size and line width are separate criteria.

MB nibs are not hand made.  They are machine made (size), and then ground (line width) by hand, with the use of a machine.

 

Adding a human into the mix inevitably gives rise to variation.  In the near future AI will, no doubt, remove this irritating feature.

[kazoolaw]

Yes, AI may well remove the irritating presence of humans, and their variations.

In the actual writing process as well.

’Twill be a grand day.

[stric75]

It depends on model a year really. As someone has mentioned, older celluloid models had nib size stamped on the piston knob. Occasionally, you can see these pens on auctions where sellers indicate that a different size nib is in the pen, meaning a change took place. Some models (e.g., 22x series from the 70s and 80s) had nib size stamped but the only way to know for sure was by pulling the nib out of the section, because the size stamp would be hidden inside of the section. The new ones… no size indication except for the sticker on the pen.  

[NoType]

1 hour ago, stric75 said:

As someone has mentioned, older celluloid models had nib size stamped on the piston knob.

@stric75 I believe that was I.

 

1 hour ago, stric75 said:

Occasionally, you can see these pens on auctions where sellers indicate that a different size nib is in the pen, meaning a change took place.

 

1 hour ago, stric75 said:

The new ones… no size indication except for the sticker on the pen

@stric75 Presumably, since stickers are easy to change, Montblanc wished to make allowances for consumers who changed the nib size during the course of their enjoyment of the pen.  In fact, if one’s nib is exchanged in Hamburg these days, Montblanc will change the sticker to reflect the new nib size.  Of course, the ease of removal that is the supposed raison d’être of stickers can be the source of frustration for the pen’s subsequent steward who may not be certain what the nib size is on their new-to-them pen.