Help me choose my next pen (Sailor?)

[SpencerianDream]

Hello all, 

Bear with me, this may get a bit long. 
 

I was thinking about the “state of my collection,” and realize that although I have a lot of pens, many of which I enjoy, most of them were bought because they were affordable. Ie “I should buy this because it’s a good deal.” Or “It’s pretty.” Or “it’s vintage and in good shape.” The pens I really enjoy and reach for when I want to write are another question, and what I enjoy most about fountain pens is the feel and behavior of the pen, ink, paper. 
 

So I noticed that I have two pens I reach for most often, and they are a Pilot Vanishing Point EF, and a Pilot Custom 743. The EF Vanishing Point has an amazing nib. It feels bouncy (maybe “spindly” would be a better word, but spindly in a good way. Not frail but in no way implying flex.) It also has some “feedback” “toothiness” “scratchiness” that I really like. This is a feeling in the writing, not just a sound on the paper. I wish it were a touch drier with the wet inks I like but it’s otherwise an awesome nib. The Custom 743 EF is an intimidating pen because that EF feels twice as fine as the Vanishing Point, and shows every imperfection in your letterforms. But it also feels amazing (“aristocratic?”) when writing. And it dawned on me the other day that I probably enjoy it because it has that same tactile feedback, that slight scratchiness (but in a good way! Not like “eww my tines are ripping up this paper”). 

I’ve also had experience with Pilot F in #10 and #15 size and while I like them they don’t thrill me like EF, mostly due to on paper feel I think. They’re more smooth than I want. 
 

I have a Platinum 3776 steel nib in ultra extra fine (don’t use it much, it does verge on “scratching up the paper” feedback) and a 3776 Soft Fine  -which I really don’t like much. To me that nib feels way too smooth and my writing is more sloppy, like I’m losing control of the nib. It’s not glassy smooth like some Western pens (which oddly I don’t mind) but I’ve never gelled with it. I bought it because I love flex too, but to me the 3776 S-F is like the worst of both worlds. Not really soft enough to matter, certainly not true flex, and also zero “bounce.” At least nothing like my VP. 
 

So if I think I like “feedback,” I’ve heard Sailors are good for this. Some people say the 14k have more feedback, some people say the 21k have some feedback but also “bounce.” (And some people say they’re stiff as a board… but honestly the jury is out for me on if I want bounce or stiffness, or a little of both.) And then there’s the question of EF vs something maybe a little more forgiving like their fine or medium-fine. 
 

Anybody got suggestions before I get crazy and blind-buy a few pens? 
 

Thank you! 

[davisgt]

I have a Sailor 1911 L with a medium nib. A Platinum President with an extra fine nib. I also have the Pilot Custom 823 with a medium nib. All three of them are a joy to use. I particularly enjoy the feedback on the Sailor.  The Platinum nib puts down a really thin line, but it doesn't rip the paper. I used it this past week quite often, but my hand kept reaching for the Sailor. Not very scientific I know.  Apologies.  

[Mechanical]

I wonder if you'd like Pilot's Posting nib?  I believe it's the same width as Pilot's EF.... but different. 

 

It's on my list to try, but for now I'm having too much fun with my Pilot Justus 95 (F).  Some day...

[Lithium466]

My 3776 UEF and SF are certainly not what you described, so I'll put that on the natural variation between nibs, ink/paper used and user (me)

 

It seems to me that you will like a Sailor "large" (21K) in EF. They are lovely (to me), and yet I'm not much fan of feedback, but for some reason it really works for these nibs. I do have a Sailor 14K EF and a steel EF and while "good" on their own, they don't strike me as particularly special like the 21K nib.

Then the Platinum President EF...it does have some feedback but the nib isn't anything special really, I want to say it feels harder than a 3776 EF. That wouldn't be my first choice.

Pilot PO, I have one in a 912, but I don't have anything Pilot EF in size 10 or 15 to compare. It's kind of stiff, but also kind of smooth, and the downturn takes a bit to get used to it. I'd place it with the Platinum EF, if I had to do it again, probably not something I'd buy.

 

You seem kind of set on a Sailor so I suggest you try one

[Driften]

To me the only Sailor nibs that have any bounce are the King of Pen models. The one problem for you is the KOP is only offered in M and B. The normal 14k and 21k Sailor nibs are nails and marked with a H for hard on the nib. They do have nice feedback,

[mongrelnomad]

The single pen style that I have the most examples of is the Sailor Realo, most with 21k MF nibs. I think I have about 20.
 

That said they can be very different. The bog standard Sailors tend to be very stiff, however many LEs I have from smaller shops (such as Penhouse or Bungubox) have quite a bit of give in them, if not flex. Perhaps they are quietly specced that way from the factory. 
 

I do have quite a few EF nibs, and those don’t get used much as they are very scratchy and catch the paper. Better for Hiragana I suppose. 
 

Anyway, long story short, love ‘em all. 

[SpencerianDream]

I ended up (this morning, actually) ordering a Sailor 1911L in extra fine. Really, for the price I may as well bite the bullet and try one. They’re not cheap like some of the Chinese pens but from Amazon they’re not prohibitively expensive as an impulse buy, and it’ll let me know how I like the Sailor nibs. At some point I’ll probably try an F or MF too, but one pen at a time… 

[mongrelnomad]

Congrats. Interested to hear your findings. 

[lascosas]

20 Realos.  Thank goodness there is at least one person who owns more of those than I do!

[mongrelnomad]

🤣 They’re just such good pens, and there’s always another ultra-cool, crazy coloured, small-store LE that I simply can’t resist.

[davisgt]

I'll be very interested to hear what you think of the 1911L. I love mine. Had it in my suit jacket for most of the week to use it at work.  I alternated it with the Platinum President.  

[Surlyprof]

30 minutes ago, mongrelnomad said:

🤣 They’re just such good pens, and there’s always another ultra-cool, crazy coloured, small-store LE that I simply can’t resist.

That’s how I ended up with my first Sailor.  I love it!  It’s my favorite pen for sketching, specifically because of that blend of smoothness and feedback.  The weighted section is also really nice.

[mongrelnomad]

9 hours ago, Surlyprof said:

That’s how I ended up with my first Sailor.  I love it!  It’s my favorite pen for sketching, specifically because of that blend of smoothness and feedback.  The weighted section is also really nice.

Yup, I have one of those. 🤦‍♂️

[SpencerianDream]

Pen arrived today. Sailor 1911L 21k EF.

 

First impressions: this is like a cross between the Platinum UEF and the Pilot EF -but closer to the Platinum. It’s a great pen but I’m not sure yet if it’s for me. The pen is wet and produces a line very much like a Pilot F. My Pilot 743 EF is drier and thinner and scratchier. All of which I like. 
 

Honestly the jury is still out. I think I want a XXF that’s on the wet side. I like the wetness here but wish it were a thinner line. And I want the feedback to be a toothy/scratchy actual feeling of the nib on the page. This is smooth with a sound. Which is not what I was hoping for. But it’s dialed back a notch from Platinum which is nice. 
 

I have a Conway Stewart that’s like a Cadillac Deville or Lincoln Town Car. You just float over the road. Pothole? What pothole. The Pilot EF is like a tightly-sprung sports car. You feel every bump in the road surface. This is more like a crossover SUV. You hear the road, or at least the vibration and sound of your all terrain tires but you don’t actually get a lot of real feeling of the road surface. 
 

Time to write a dozen pages and see how my impression develops. I also bought a Sailor Pro Gear Slim 14k medium-fine which should be arriving tomorrow. It’ll be interesting to compare the two. 

[davisgt]

Wow. Nice summary.  I particularly like the comparison to cars. Very inventive. You obviously like a super thin line that still has a good ink flow. At one point,  we had nib masters who could grind a nib to a needlepoint without sacrificing ink flow.  That might be an option for you if there are still people doing that.  

[SpencerianDream]

Second impressions: I wrote about six pages on a few different types of A5 paper, and used the pen to write a dozen thank-you cards. I also inked the pen with Pelikan 4001 blue-black. 
 

I quite like it and will definitely be keeping it. I inked up my Platinum Balance Maestro 3776 UEF in the same ink. The Pilot 743 EF is inked with Diamine Oxblood, which was the initial ink I used with the Sailor. 
 

So, what can I say? 
 

About the Sailor 1911L EF: It’s a nice feeling pen. I like the size. In spite of the “large” moniker, it’s not a giant pen by any means. It feels good in my hand both posted and unposted. I’m glad I got this one rather than the “standard” size. 
 

It feels high quality, compared to Platinum 3776 Century and a few pretty nice Chinese pens that punch above their weight. Something about the sound and feel of the resin when uncapping and posting. 
 

The nib…. As I mentioned above, the feedback here is almost more heard than felt… but you DO feel something. It gives the pen a feeling like a precision scalpel. After I inked the pen with 4001 it was much more in line with the line width I was hoping for, so this pen does well with dry inks. Or maybe *I* do well with dry inks. lol. 
 

Comparing the three pens: The Pilot 743 feels more high quality than the sailor. It’s slightly bigger (giving it more “presence,”) it feels nicer when uncapping, posting, unposting, and capping. The letters on the Pilot’s cap band are blacked, which is a nice extra touch. The Sailor is a small step down in aesthetics. The Platinum Century and UEF are, respectively, two and three further steps down. They are nice enough on their own but feel cheap compared to the Sailor and Pilot. 
 

Nib feel: This comparison makes me think I have misjudged the Platinum UEF. (I had only ever used it with Platinum black cartridge… that’s probably a lot of the issue.) I disliked the Century soft-fine as much as ever. Audible feedback yet the nib is very slippery-smooth. The UEF was actually a very nice writing pen with 4001 BB. Feedback very similar to the Sailor when writing. Nice fine, quite dry line. They are both very different nibs than the Pilot and I do like the Pilot better. It’s interesting though that the Sailor EF and the Platinum UEF are both, even with dry ink, thicker than the Pilot EF with wetter ink. Just shows how thin that Pilot really is. Now I’m curious if that’s the norm on these or if I just won the pen lottery. 
 

Next steps: I’ll try some different dry inks in the Sailor and see what I can find. I will say, although my hand says “ahhh, yeah” when I pick up the Pilot, I feel oddly drawn to pick up the Sailor. “Let’s make some more swishing sounds on some nice paper,” it says. 

[Lithium466]

Nice summary.
 

In another thread, I think you mentioned the FA nib, but what about a Pilot Falcon SEF, if you haven't already tried one?

I have found my one 1911L EF to be smoother and thicker than my one 1911S EF 14K, a sample of one pen of each isn't very representative. And I went with a SFM 743 instead of a EF, which I'm regretting.

[davisgt]

19 hours ago, SpencerianDream said:

 I feel oddly drawn to pick up the Sailor. “Let’s make some more swishing sounds on some nice paper,” it says. 

What an excellent post. I enjoyed every word.  This last bit was the absolute best. I have the Sailor 1911L, the Pilot Custom 823, and the Platinum President, and while I am loving all three, my hand keeps going back to the Sailor. "swishing sounds on some nice paper." Perfect! 🥰

[a student]

On 11/9/2024 at 8:32 AM, SpencerianDream said:

Pen arrived today. Sailor 1911L 21k EF.

 

First impressions: this is like a cross between the Platinum UEF and the Pilot EF -but closer to the Platinum. It’s a great pen but I’m not sure yet if it’s for me. The pen is wet and produces a line very much like a Pilot F. My Pilot 743 EF is drier and thinner and scratchier. All of which I like. 
 

Honestly the jury is still out. I think I want a XXF that’s on the wet side. I like the wetness here but wish it were a thinner line. And I want the feedback to be a toothy/scratchy actual feeling of the nib on the page. This is smooth with a sound. Which is not what I was hoping for. But it’s dialed back a notch from Platinum which is nice. 
 

I have a Conway Stewart that’s like a Cadillac Deville or Lincoln Town Car. You just float over the road. Pothole? What pothole. The Pilot EF is like a tightly-sprung sports car. You feel every bump in the road surface. This is more like a crossover SUV. You hear the road, or at least the vibration and sound of your all terrain tires but you don’t actually get a lot of real feeling of the road surface. 
 

Time to write a dozen pages and see how my impression develops. I also bought a Sailor Pro Gear Slim 14k medium-fine which should be arriving tomorrow. It’ll be interesting to compare the two. 

There is a Sailor saibi togi nib that is XXF. I never tried it, notwithstanding the shop's insistence that I do so, for fear of scratching the paper and damaging the nib- because the nib tip seemed pinpoint sharp

[lascosas]

I've gotten a couple of Saibi Togi regrinds from Mike Masuyama.  I have all of the nibs discussed above that are super fine, and without a doubt, the Saibi Togi is finer.  Bird's beak is I believe the translation.  It slightly curves downward, and requires intense concentration not to stick the nib into the paper.  But I do love them, because the writing experience takes you to a place of complete concentration on what you are doing, with a result that is so delicate & controlled.