This is Italic, right?

[PhiloPlume]

On 11/29/2024 at 5:54 AM, Stompie said:

I have just ordered some Irofan paper based on some reviews on here, I say ordered, it is on my Christmas wish list so who knows if I will get it or not.

The paper is pretty inexpensive ya know.  I just ordered a 100 sheets 75gsm from Amazon for $12.61.  Maybe it's not the same stuff you mentioned.  Also some Tomoe River 52gsm but it's cream.  Not sure what I will do with that.

[Stompie]

16 hours ago, PhiloPlume said:

Yes!

 

I have a James Madison fountain pen that I bought from Farhney's (and various Declaration of Independence signers and other founding fathers and similar themed pens. 🙂  But they all have regular nibs.

 

I will see what I can do!  🙂  Don't expect Lloyd Reynolds or any of his students quality! lol

Now that all sounds very interesting!

 

I look forward to seeing what you do - not expecting Lloyd's writing, that would be weird seeing that he has been dead for over 40 years! but I am rather looking forward to seeing a guy enjoying what he is doing and having fun!  👍

[PhiloPlume]

12 hours ago, Stompie said:

Now that all sounds very interesting!

 

I look forward to seeing what you do - not expecting Lloyd's writing, that would be weird seeing that he has been dead for over 40 years! but I am rather looking forward to seeing a guy enjoying what he is doing and having fun!  👍

Thanks.  dms25/David here is the one you should look for in regards to fine italic handwriting (like his example(s)) earlier in this thread and others that I have started, not me 🙂

 

I am going to practice again word examples from Lloyd Reynolds book first and post them here.  I have practiced that page and his whole book and many others for countless hours, days, and weeks but just cannot quite duplicate what I see.

 

Some of it has to do with matching the nib and pen widths which is part of my problem because it can't be me!! lol!

 

But fooling around with a flexible nib and offset oblique pen the last couple of months learning Copperplate has really set me back for sure!

[dms525]

On 11/28/2024 at 11:18 AM, PhiloPlume said:

 

I also ordered a couple old, used Italic pen sets from Osmiroid but they do not contain converters so I think they are probably worthless unless I am supposed to use an eyedropper to fill in the cavity with ink?

 

 

Do you know what model Osmiroid pens you got? The Model 65 is a lever filler. If old, it may need its ink sack replaced. The model 75 is a piston filler. The last model produced, using the Easy Change" nibs, will work with a Waterman converter. I assume it would also take Waterman cartridges. Those are readily available.

 

David

[PhiloPlume]

3 hours ago, dms525 said:

 

Do you know what model Osmiroid pens you got? The Model 65 is a lever filler. If old, it may need its ink sack replaced. The model 75 is a piston filler. The last model produced, using the Easy Change" nibs, will work with a Waterman converter. I assume it would also take Waterman cartridges. Those are readily available.

 

David

Okay David. No model numbers but one does have a lever and instructions on the back, but no ink sack. Is that needed?  Oh - on back "65 -Lever.  Immerse nib ink.  Lift lever.  Close lever.  Count 5 slowly.  Withdraw pen from ink and wipe".  I am afraid to break the lever! Does the ink go directly into the cavity? If so, I probably should put some silicone grease on the threads.

 

Okay - other set has two different pens in a clear case that the guy supplied. One of them has an empty little ink cartridge.  I have more of those from various companies like Hongdian.  I will try what converters I have here.  I think I even have some little Waterman ink cartridges.

 

Cool!  Thanks for walking me through this!  Exciting.  My mother-in-law gave me a set of Osmiroids that came with little bladders with metal on the side where you squeeze them. I flushed them out but they don't have any spunk left.  She also gave me a small, burgundy Mont Blonc in a box and case and it has a converter.  It writes pretty huge so not to my liking.

 

I did some how get the Osmiroid writing and I liked it!  It wrote small italic.  The reason I looked for other italic sets from them on eBay.

 

Thanks!!

 

-paul

[dms525]

Paul, the lever filled Osmiroid (Model 65) has an internal sack that is filled when the lever presses a metal bar against it, then releases it, creating a vacuum that sucks up ink. The original sacks were rubber and, with age, oxidize, get brittle and literally fall apart. The ink sack can be replaced with a modern one that is better, but that isn't something you want to do by yourself the first time. 

 

The Osmiroid that your Mother-in-Law gave you would be the one that takes Easy Change nibs. Those nibs come installed in sections. They are not compatible with the Model 65.

 

If you are still shopping for Osmiroids, I would look for a Model 65 with a new ink bladder installed. Otherwise, I would avoid them. The Model 75 is rarer but is low maintenance and takes the same nibs as the Model 65. That may be your best choice, actually, if you can find one.

 

Happy writing!

 

David

[PhiloPlume]

1 hour ago, dms525 said:

Paul, the lever filled Osmiroid (Model 65) has an internal sack that is filled

Okay Dave, so I cannot use them.  Thanks!

 

Both models that I bought from eBay have screw in nibs and the one that my M-I-L gave me also has them.

 

I am going to write them all off and maybe throw them away, no pun intended 🙂

 

Oh, the F-C pens don't seem to be able to keep up the ink flow with the #6 Scrips nibs that I bought from Spain (fine and medium). I can write with them but I have to go very slow and the ink isn't very dark like with the F-C nibs.  I know, they are the real italic nibs that I was looking for!  I can get used to them as they do have a little sharper edge than the F-C cursive italic nibs and my writing looks more "acceptable" hehe

 

Thanks!!

[PhiloPlume]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:49 AM, Stompie said:

I look forward to seeing what you do - not expecting Lloyd's writing, that would be weird seeing that he has been dead for over 40 years! but I am rather looking forward to seeing a guy enjoying what he is doing and having fun!  👍

I still have a long way to go to be good at writing Italic, especially when using Lloyd Reynolds as a model lol! 

 

I just wrote this out for you Stompy.  I have started to mostly get away from using italic and cursive italic nibs now for the most part and have gone back to regular nibs for most of my writing - so I am a bit out of practice hehe!

 

But Italic is my favorite to write and read. I think it is so beautiful in it's own way, even when compared to Copperplate and Spencerian.  I still want to be able to write/draw italic like my original samples I posted earlier here!

 

-paul

 

[dms525]

FYI, when Lloyd Reynolds refers to "Medium" etc., he is using Osmiroid italic nibs. Here are the widths in millimeters of Osmiroid Italic nibs:

 

XF 0.5

F 0.75

M 0.9

B 1.4

B2 1.5

B32

B4 2.5

 

Hope that helps.

 

David

[PhiloPlume]

35 minutes ago, dms525 said:

FYI, when Lloyd Reynolds refers to "Medium" etc., he is using Osmiroid italic nibs. Here are the widths in millimeters of Osmiroid Italic nibs:

 

XF 0.5

F 0.75

M 0.9

B 1.4

B2 1.5

B32

B4 2.5

 

Hope that helps.

How did you know that David?  How did I miss it from the book and videos?  Thank you!

 

I have given up using the scribes nibs that I got from Spain nibs dot com.  They are scratchy and are not fed enough ink (why they are scratchy I suppose) from the F-C pens I put them in.  Not enough ink to use them for my recent little writing sample.  I tried writing with a Speedball C-2 that is recommended in "Written Letters", using a paintbrush to put ink on the nib, but by the time the ink on the nib was in the proper amount to write with I didn't get very far. I don't know how she wrote that whole book using Speedballs!  They write huge so she must have reduced the samples for print.

 

Thanks again!  I may look again for a proper Osmiroid set with bladders that work but am snakebit.

 

-paulw

[PhiloPlume]

I found another example that I would like to be able to write Italic like.  Gotta figure out how to get started and what is used.  I know, it is not handwriting sized but that is okay for something like this.

[Stompie]

That is great Paul, well done.

 

Tell you what, why don't you do pen pal letters with folk that are also looking at improving their handwriting?

You kill two birds with one stone then:

i) You get to meet people from different places and you learn new things

ii) You get to practice your writing on almost a forced schedule because you have to reply to letters received, but you can not be too pedantic about your writing as you must get the letter out.

 

I practice my handwriting this way, I write lots of letters and although I do not always do the best type of writing I could, I just have fun, learn new things, have some interesting discussions and, I find ways to improve what I am writing. A Win Win situation.

 

I also found out that some folk do not take to fancy scripts because it makes them hard to read so mostly, I stick with a form of italicised handwriting, which, with an italic nib you can use to do all manner of writing styles.

[dms525]

5 hours ago, PhiloPlume said:

How did you know that David?  How did I miss it from the book and videos?  Thank you!

 

I have given up using the scribes nibs that I got from Spain nibs dot com.  They are scratchy and are not fed enough ink (why they are scratchy I suppose) from the F-C pens I put them in.  Not enough ink to use them for my recent little writing sample.  I tried writing with a Speedball C-2 that is recommended in "Written Letters", using a paintbrush to put ink on the nib, but by the time the ink on the nib was in the proper amount to write with I didn't get very far. I don't know how she wrote that whole book using Speedballs!  They write huge so she must have reduced the samples for print.

 

Thanks again!  I may look again for a proper Osmiroid set with bladders that work but am snakebit.

 

-paulw

 

Hi, Paul.

 

I have had a table with the widths of various nibs from the popular calligraphy pen and nib makers for years. I got it from some calligraphy web site. The information is not in any of Reynolds' books. When they were written, Osmiroid and Platinum pens were readily available.

 

Regarding the "scribes nibs:" I don't recognize that term. Did you get them from fpnibs dot com? I have never had a problem with any of mine from that source. Are you writing with "a feather touch," that is NO pressure?

 

Speedball nibs come in several series and a wide variety of widths. Jaki's "Written Letters" was entirely handwritten by her and was printed in the exact size she wrote every letter. She insisted on that. 

 

David

[dms525]

Here's a little piece I dashed off yesterday. The larger letters were written with a F-C Music nib. The smaller text was written with a steel F-C Medium nib, ground to cursive italic by (I think) Michael Masuyama.

 

 

Enjoy!

 

David

[PhiloPlume]

32 minutes ago, dms525 said:

Here's a little piece I dashed off yesterday. The larger letters were written with a F-C Music nib. The smaller text was written with a steel F-C Medium nib, ground to cursive italic by (I think) Michael Masuyama.

I really like that David.  Getty fancy! 🙂

 

Are the spaces inside some letters there on purpose? With some fancy nib?

[PhiloPlume]

40 minutes ago, dms525 said:

Regarding the "scribes nibs:" I don't recognize that term. Did you get them from fpnibs dot com? I have never had a problem with any of mine from that source. Are you writing with "a feather touch," that is NO pressure?

Yes fpnibs. I think the invoice said "scribes".  Oh - "Scripts".  Is that better? Maybe I got the term incorrect.  I will try a feather touch but I am not getting much ink from the normal pressure.  hmmm...  I will try again tomorrow.

 

Thanks

[dms525]

2 minutes ago, PhiloPlume said:

I really like that David.  Getty fancy! 🙂

 

Are the spaces inside some letters there on purpose? With some fancy nib?

 

Actually, that "railroading" is because the pen was almost out of ink. Nothing "fancy." The original doesn't look like that. The photo revealed that the layer of ink was really thin in places.

 

David

[PhiloPlume]

4 hours ago, Stompie said:

That is great Paul, well done.

 

Tell you what, why don't you do pen pal letters with folk that are also looking at improving their handwriting?

You kill two birds with one stone then:

i) You get to meet people from different places and you learn new things

ii) You get to practice your writing on almost a forced schedule because you have to reply to letters received, but you can not be too pedantic about your writing as you must get the letter out.

 

I practice my handwriting this way, I write lots of letters and although I do not always do the best type of writing I could, I just have fun, learn new things, have some interesting discussions and, I find ways to improve what I am writing. A Win Win situation.

 

I also found out that some folk do not take to fancy scripts because it makes them hard to read so mostly, I stick with a form of italicised handwriting, which, with an italic nib you can use to do all manner of writing styles.

 

Nobody writes letters any more! I know all the experts on handwriting suggest that in order to revive handwritten letters but I think some people just think it's weird to receive letters out of the blue, or arrogant/show off.

 

I have and should keep up writing practice stuff just for that.

 

Yes, I have shown people examples (not mine) of cursive, Copperplate, and Spencerian and I would say 90 percent can't read Copperplate and especially Spencerian (which I cannot stand the shading.  I find it hard to decipher myself in addition to a lot of examples of Copperplate that I have seen that have open letters or letters that do not look like letters to me or could be something else.  I have said that many times here at FPN!!).

 

Also, since Cursive is no longer taught in schools in the US I have had younger generations struggle a little to read that!  I think Getty-Dubay (Write Now!) is the way to go -  cursive-italic without loops.

 

Thanks for the nice comment.

 

-paul

 

[dms525]

2 minutes ago, PhiloPlume said:

Yes fpnibs. I think the invoice said "scribes".  Oh - "Scripts".  Is that better? Maybe I got the term incorrect.  I will try a feather touch but I am not getting much ink from the normal pressure.  hmmm...  I will try again tomorrow.

 

Thanks

 

Fountain pens are meant to be written with using a feather touch. If you have been using a pencil or ballpoint for years, they require more pressure. That forms bad habits than are a challenge to overcome - personal experience!

 

With a semi-flexible nib, writing with a heavy hand can push the nib away from the feed and prevent normal ink flow. That could be your problem. With a very stiff nib - for instance a Pelikan M800 - that may be less of an issue.

 

David

[PhiloPlume]

5 minutes ago, dms525 said:

Actually, that "railroading" is because the pen was almost out of ink. Nothing "fancy." The original doesn't look like that. The photo revealed that the layer of ink was really thin in places.

I thought so but didn't say anything. I have seen examples in books and on-lines with that done on purpose though!  I can't remember how.  Maybe with two nibs at the same time.