Montblanc Skeleton

[Theroc]

I maybe stretching the definition and purpose of Market Watch, but it's not everyday one of these goes on auction.

 

[I-am-not-really-here]

Shipping only by USPS Ground Advantage is a red flag for me given the supposed cost.  Makes me wonder if the pen is legit.  

 

 

 

[Paul-in-SF]

35 minutes ago, I-am-not-really-here said:

Shipping only by USPS Ground Advantage is a red flag for me given the supposed cost.  Makes me wonder if the pen is legit.  

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand the connection. Could you explain it to me, for my own education? Thanks.

 

In general, it is a curious thing to see on an eBay auction: "YOU WILL NEVER SEE IT ON EBAY"

 

Now the auction is over. The last 2 bids added $3K to the bidding, and the final number is $9127. Hokey smokes. At least 3 people really, really wanted that thing. 

[I-am-not-really-here]

3 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand the connection. Could you explain it to me, for my own education? Thanks.

Ground Advantage is cheap and slow.  Whereas, having spent thousands of dollars on an item (common in the Leica realm) anything less than Express is unacceptable, TO ME.  A seller that offers such high ticket items with no option except slowest leaves me wondering.

[Theroc]

5 hours ago, I-am-not-really-here said:

Ground Advantage is cheap and slow.  Whereas, having spent thousands of dollars on an item (common in the Leica realm) anything less than Express is unacceptable, TO ME.  A seller that offers such high ticket items with no option except slowest leaves me wondering.

 

I certainly would want such a high value item delivered as quickly as possible. But Express offers no more guarantee or insurance than Ground Advantage. It's in the seller's best interest to ship this item fully insured, with signature upon delivery. The benefit of registered mail is debatable, but I would certainly consider it.

 

The seller is actually the one at risk here. eBay will hold the money for 30 days in case of high value items. If the buyer claims inaccurate description and returns a knock-off MB, the seller has absolutely no recourse except the police.

And that's my only red flag for this listing. I would never dream of selling such a high value item except through escrow and I'd stay away from any seller that wouldn't do the same.

 

eBay now requires some luxury watches, hand bags, and sneakers be sold through it's "Authenticity Guarantee". Which is basically a "free" escrow service. But only a limited range of products qualifies. $100 Sneakers? Yes. $10K Fountain pen? No.

 

 

[mke]

Certainly not true that you don't see such a pen again - perhaps just not for that price indicated in the comments - there are a number of Montblanc Skeleton turning up on Google Search:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/371834095922

 

[Theroc]

1 minute ago, mke said:

Certainly not true that you don't see such a pen again - just not for that price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/371834095922

 

 

That's not the same pen. You are right, however. The same pen is offered by other sellers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/371834095916

 

In fact, the SAME pen is offered by other sellers, 😂:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155520614883

 

Talk about red flags: shared photos, two different serial numbers for the same listing...

[Paul-in-SF]

9 hours ago, Theroc said:

Talk about red flags: shared photos, two different serial numbers for the same listing...

 

Using the same (probably stock) photos may be a red flag, but I would say it is not definitive in this case. The stock photos are probably better than most sellers would be able to take for themselves, and for such a luxe item they probably want to present the best image possible. When, as in this case, the sellers are in different countries, fraudulent collusion seems much less likely to me. 

 

There are lots of cases of different sellers using the same photos on eBay, especially where a) the photos do not appear to be stock, and b) the sellers are all listed as in the same country, that make me too uneasy to consider purchasing from any of those sellers. 

 

Anyway, these are some of the kinds of considerations I use in trying to decide who's a reliable seller and who isn't. 

[Merrick]

On 10/7/2024 at 3:00 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

 

Using the same (probably stock) photos may be a red flag, but I would say it is not definitive in this case. The stock photos are probably better than most sellers would be able to take for themselves, and for such a luxe item they probably want to present the best image possible. When, as in this case, the sellers are in different countries, fraudulent collusion seems much less likely to me. 

 

There are lots of cases of different sellers using the same photos on eBay, especially where a) the photos do not appear to be stock, and b) the sellers are all listed as in the same country, that make me too uneasy to consider purchasing from any of those sellers. 

 

Anyway, these are some of the kinds of considerations I use in trying to decide who's a reliable seller and who isn't. 

I saw a listing the other day from two different sellers in Japan, same model pen, same pictures, same name engraved on the cap, two slightly different prices. I suspect it’s not an outright scam so much as an attempt to clog up the listings so more buyers think they’re getting a deal on the lower priced one. 

[Seney724]

3 minutes ago, Merrick said:

I saw a listing the other day from two different sellers in Japan, same model pen, same pictures, same name engraved on the cap, two slightly different prices. I suspect it’s not an outright scam so much as an attempt to clog up the listings so more buyers think they’re getting a deal on the lower priced one. 

This happens very frequently on the Montblanc sales site at eBay.  I've seen as many as five sellers listing the exact same pen, all at different prices.  eBay, of course, does nothing about this even when it is specifically brought to their attention. 

 

I enjoyed your description of this activity as not being an "outright" scam; for sure we have all seen worse.  But, the number of reports of scams and fake pens coming from there is enough to make any prudent buyer take pause before hitting the "Purchase" button!  As always, "Caveat emptor!"

[Merrick]

3 minutes ago, Seney724 said:

This happens very frequently on the Montblanc sales site at eBay.  I've seen as many as five sellers listing the exact same pen, all at different prices.  eBay, of course, does nothing about this even when it is specifically brought to their attention. 

 

I enjoyed your description of this activity as not being an "outright" scam; for sure we have all seen worse.  But, the number of reports of scams and fake pens coming from there is enough to make any prudent buyer take pause before hitting the "Purchase" button!  As always, "Caveat emptor!"

Oh yes, I certainly would not take the chance of buying any of those listing in case they are outright fraudulent. 

[mulrich]

On 10/7/2024 at 6:29 AM, Theroc said:

In fact, the SAME pen is offered by other sellers, 😂:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155520614883

 

 

Maybe I'm seeing something wrong but this isn't the same pen as the initial auction. The auctioned pen had a LE #266 and the sale listing was #204. There will be common pictures, probably those provided by MB when the pen was first marketed. But pictures showing different LE numbers are unique. 

 

I see no reason to think the auction was a scam. Ground shipping on the listing doesn't mean much and I'm betting it would be changed after the sale based on whatever the buyer felt most comfortable with. 

[Theroc]

4 hours ago, mulrich said:

 

Maybe I'm seeing something wrong but this isn't the same pen as the initial auction. The auctioned pen had a LE #266 and the sale listing was #204. There will be common pictures, probably those provided by MB when the pen was first marketed. But pictures showing different LE numbers are unique. 

 

I see no reason to think the auction was a scam. Ground shipping on the listing doesn't mean much and I'm betting it would be changed after the sale based on whatever the buyer felt most comfortable with. 

Yes, that original auction has photos showing two different serial numbers, 266 and 204. You can see the 204 in the photo showing documentation.

[Paul-in-SF]

On 10/7/2024 at 3:00 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

There are lots of cases of different sellers using the same photos on eBay, especially where a) the photos do not appear to be stock, and b) the sellers are all listed as in the same country, that make me too uneasy to consider purchasing from any of those sellers. 

 

I just want to elaborate on this. I just looked at eBay listings for Montblanc Traveler Fountain pen, and found 9 differently-named sellers, all identified as being in Japan, that are using the same non-stock photos (with such things as ink stains on the cartridge holder) and at 9 different prices, running from $379 to $619. 

 

I just now sent each of them a message on eBay asking why they were advertising the exact same pen as 8 other "Japanese" sellers. I guess I did this because this seems to be to be a particularly egregious instance of this kind of practice. My thought was something like "they must think we're all really stupid" not to notice this. I'll pass on what responses I get, if any. I have also written down the 9 seller names, and they are on my "do not buy from" list now. 

[Seney724]

6 minutes ago, Paul-in-SF said:

 

I just want to elaborate on this. I just looked at eBay listings for Montblanc Traveler Fountain pen, and found 9 differently-named sellers, all identified as being in Japan, that are using the same non-stock photos (with such things as ink stains on the cartridge holder) and at 9 different prices, running from $379 to $619. 

 

I just now sent each of them a message on eBay asking why they were advertising the exact same pen as 8 other "Japanese" sellers. I guess I did this because this seems to be to be a particularly egregious instance of this kind of practice. My thought was something like "they must think we're all really stupid" not to notice this. I'll pass on what responses I get, if any. I have also written down the 9 seller names, and they are on my "do not buy from" list now. 

Thank you @Paul-in-SF

Please keep us informed as to what you learn.

 

FYI: I have done the same thing and received no responses.

In addition, I have reported this to eBay and they have done nothing.  Not even showing me the courtesy of a reply to explain why it is ok.

No, it is NOT ok!!!!

[Theroc]

I think this is an extreme example of arbitrage. The seller does not actually own the items they are listing. They will clone listings by other sellers, with a significant markup. Listing costs them nothing, and requires no effort. They are exploiting someone else's work, after all.

If someone actually buys from them, they will buy the item listed by the original seller and ship it to the buyer directly.

 

As to whether "they think we are all really stupid", no. Not ALL of us. One is enough. They don't even have to be stupid, just careless.

 

A lot of the sellers doing this are from Japan for some reason. But it's by no means exclusive to Japan. There are even websites and reddits dedicated to the practice. Just google ebay arbitrage.

 

 

[Paul-in-SF]

31 minutes ago, Theroc said:

Listing costs them nothing, and requires no effort.

 

I have never tried to sell on eBay, but I thought that there was some expense to listing. If not for them, is that true for everyone? Maybe it's time I tried my hand at it. 

 

If you look at the other items for many of these sellers, it seems like 90% of their inventory are these arbitrage items. And a lot of their negative reviews have to do with the seller canceling a sale after the fact, so presumably this is when the seller found out the item was already sold by the other seller. 

 

Does this model mean we should assume that the seller with the lowest price is the one who actually has the item? Otherwise, as an economic model it doesn't make a lot of sense. 

[Seney724]

40 minutes ago, Theroc said:

A lot of the sellers doing this are from Japan for some reason. But it's by no means exclusive to Japan. 

 

 

I have no doubt you are correct.

But, if one considers only the Montblanc sales page on the eBay USA site, I have never seen it other than from Japan sellers.

There are times when there are 2 or more full pages of simultaneous sales posts on the USA eBay Montblanc site, all coming from Japan and many representing this same item from multiple sellers phenomenon.

This and then multiple, creditable reports of receiving high end fakes.

Not a good situation, especially since eBay apparently condones it.

[Theroc]

3 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

 

I have never tried to sell on eBay, but I thought that there was some expense to listing. If not for them, is that true for everyone? Maybe it's time I tried my hand at it. 

 

If you look at the other items for many of these sellers, it seems like 90% of their inventory are these arbitrage items. And a lot of their negative reviews have to do with the seller canceling a sale after the fact, so presumably this is when the seller found out the item was already sold by the other seller. 

 

Does this model mean we should assume that the seller with the lowest price is the one who actually has the item? Otherwise, as an economic model it doesn't make a lot of sense. 

 

Listing on eBay is mostly free. Any seller with a bit of history gets up to 200 listings a month free. More than that and you have to pay a monthly subscription fee. eBay makes its money from sale fees. Their cut is just under 15% of final value (shipping included) for most items.

 

I would say the seller with the lowest price is the one most likely to actually own the item. Keep in mind that the original listing they all are cloning may long have ended 😅

[Theroc]

3 hours ago, Seney724 said:

I have no doubt you are correct.

But, if one considers only the Montblanc sales page on the eBay USA site, I have never seen it other than from Japan sellers.

There are times when there are 2 or more full pages of simultaneous sales posts on the USA eBay Montblanc site, all coming from Japan and many representing this same item from multiple sellers phenomenon.

This and then multiple, creditable reports of receiving high end fakes.

Not a good situation, especially since eBay apparently condones it.

 

eBay is very slow to respond to complaints. I rarely bother anymore.

In principle cloned listings are against eBay policy. But if you think about it, they have little incentive to enforce it. They make money on the same item twice after all.

They only take action when the stink becomes too much.