Do vintage pens leak?

[Tommaso Santojanni]

I recently acquired a Pelikan 40NN in the distinctive green stripe design, featuring a super-flex EF nib, described by a specialist as a "wet noodle." It has quickly become a favourite of mine, offering unparalleled line variation permitting an unprecedented flourish when signing legal documents. I am thoroughly captivated by it.

 

Unfortunately, the pen consistently leaks ink into the cap, staining my hands far too frequently to be employed practically in daily professional use.

 

A renowned nib grinder in London explained that the feed, designed to accommodate the nib’s extreme flexibility by allowing generous ink flow, dates back to the 1930s, when methods to contain overflow were less advanced. As such, unless kept upright, the slightest jolt causes ink to escape. Sadly, maintaining such an upright position is not feasible whilst commuting.

 

I was told this is common in vintage pens and there is no solution. The nib grinder even showed how several of his own modern pens with improved feeds suffer the same issue.

 

If anyone has encountered this or can offer advice, I would be most grateful, as I would greatly regret resorting to another pen.

 

Tommaso

 

 

[Chris1]

I don't know the solution for your own pen but I suspect that many if not most vintage pens didn't leak, though just like today there are rogues out there that refuse to behave properly.

 

I can only pass on advice I've seen others give, which would be to try and find a 'dryer' ink that has less flow to it. 

 

I expect the flexible nib provides such lovely line variation that you will persevere, even if it means not carrying it around every day.

[Claes]

Kept upright? How about having it in your shirt pocket?

 

Have fun!

Claes in Lund, Sweden

[VacNut]

All pens of any type have the potential to leak. The upright position is the preferred position. Unless the pen is jarred or you are flying which causes a change in pressure, a vintage pen shouldn’t leak. Is it possible air is getting into the pen through the back of the pen or section? Nature abhors a vacuum so any leaking ink has to be replaced by air entering the pen from another location. 

[Ron Z]

Saying that "vintage pens leak," implying that all vintage pens leak is a very broad brush.  It depends on when the pen was made, brand, and a host of variables.  Early pens into the 1920s may be more likely to leak, but by the late 20s and into the early 30s, pen manufacturers had pretty well worked out the  problem of ink control, and that continued to improve over time.  But as born out by comments in the modern Parker repair manual, even modern pens though can tend to ooze as they approach empty.  Bang any fountain pen around enough, and they will get ink in the cap. 

 

Having said that, the flow of a flex nib pen needs to be heavier for the feed to keep up with the demand for ink with that flexy nib, so I would think that ink in the cap is more likely. 

[Tommaso Santojanni]

6 hours ago, Chris1 said:

I don't know the solution for your own pen but I suspect that many if not most vintage pens didn't leak, though just like today there are rogues out there that refuse to behave properly.

 

I can only pass on advice I've seen others give, which would be to try and find a 'dryer' ink that has less flow to it. 

 

I expect the flexible nib provides such lovely line variation that you will persevere, even if it means not carrying it around every day.

 

Thank you for your kind suggestion. I'll try. Can you recommend a dry, yet deep black?

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Claes said:

Kept upright? How about having it in your shirt pocket?

 

Have fun!

Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

Thank you, Claes. I actually carry it in my jacket's internal pocket but it still leaks as I take the tube, which isn't the smoothest commute.

 

 

And thank you for the other members who commented, too.

[Runnin_Ute]

Try Pelikan 4001 Black or Blue Black.  4001 Blue Black is my de facto "black".

[Chris1]

Pelikan 4001 black or blue-black are good suggestions and often said to be 'dry' inks (strange for a liquid, but there we are).

 

I don't know what else to suggest but there is a huge amount of information on this site in the sections on inks, though it will take a long time to read through and you might find yourself getting sidetracked (I always do!)

 

Yup, the tube jolts, but so to do buses. I carried only those pens I knew wouldn't leak.

[senzen]

Do all vintage pens leak? Nope.

 

Yours may have a failed piston head seal; replacements are readily available, for instance on eBay, repair requires a little patience.

[Tommaso Santojanni]

20 hours ago, senzen said:

Do all vintage pens leak? Nope.

 

Yours may have a failed piston head seal; replacements are readily available, for instance on eBay, repair requires a little patience.

Thank you to all for you useful comments!

Update: in the meantime, this beloved Pelikan 400NN claimed yet other victims: a carpet in my studio last week and, yesterday, a handmade shirt ... 😠 this pen has been causing havoc for some time now, and I have resolved to part ways with it, at the London Pen Show, unless the ever-reliable Thomas Ang (a wonderful chap whom I recently had the pleasure of meeting in London), can work his magic.

He has worked on the nib before and remains optimistic: he'll take it apart and, if it is merely a matter of heating and re-greasing the threads, we may yet save it from the chopping block. If anything is cracked, it may require more expertise.

I will try the 4001 and revert. Once more, thank you to all!

 

[swimminginink]

I have the original instruction documents from several UK manufacturers which state quite clearly that their pen must be kept upright when being transported (or words to that affect). Notably these are all older models (c.1920's).

 

Looking at similar paperwork from the 1950's there is no such advice / instruction.

Perhaps the issue was quietly resolved during the 1930's - although I still seem to get plenty on my fingers even with my "reasonably modern" Conway Stewart 58

[Tommaso Santojanni]

This Pelikan 400NN leaks in far less challenging circumstances than a bus ride or riding the tube. While I am unsure precisely how the ink managed to stain both the carpet and the shirt—since I noticed neither incident at the time—I can only assume that simply placing the uncapped pen on my desk must have disturbed the ink in the feed, causing a spill when I later lifted it. Last week, it was the carpet; yesterday, my shirt.

[Ron Z]

1 hour ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

Update: in the meantime, this beloved Pelikan 400NN claimed yet other victims: a carpet in my studio last week and, yesterday, a handmade shirt ...

 

May I introduce you to Amodex?  Wonderful stuff that will remove fountain pen ink.  The only thing to keep in mind is that you need to rinse the shirt immediately after using it.  If left on the fabric for an extended period of time it will remove the dye in the shirt too.

[Tommaso Santojanni]

5 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

 

May I introduce you to Amodex?  Wonderful stuff that will remove fountain pen ink.  The only thing to keep in mind is that you need to rinse the shirt immediately after using it.  If left on the fabric for an extended period of time it will remove the dye in the shirt too.

Thank you, I truly appreciate your kind advice. But, have you used it before? I am asking because the Amazon reviews (3.6) are far less favourable than those for other commercial products (4.7) that I used, unsuccessfully.
 

[Ron Z]

Since I repair pens for a living, I have "unfortunate" encounters with ink all the time - especially inky stuff that's mixed with the cleaning solution that I use on cleaning nib units in the shop.  I use Amodex all the time, and have for something like 15 years.  It gets out stains that nothing else touches.  Follow the directions....

[torstar]

Only a few have been perfect for me.

 

I don't take great care of the pens.

 

 

[Tommaso Santojanni]

4 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Since I repair pens for a living, I have "unfortunate" encounters with ink all the time - especially inky stuff that's mixed with the cleaning solution that I use on cleaning nib units in the shop.  I use Amodex all the time, and have for something like 15 years.  It gets out stains that nothing else touches.  Follow the directions....

 

Thank you for clarifying. In this case, I will try this product too. It will be the 6th ...  I will revert to report

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have 8-9 vintage 400 and 400nn's...and don't have that problem....not even remembered reading much about it.

 

What I do have on occasion is ink filling into my two holder Pelikan pen stand. The section is suddenly inky. But that is from the nib tip hitting the bottom of the holder...if the non-Pelikan pen is just a tad too narrow and slides in all the way.

That is from narrower pens than Pelikan 200/400 in the narrow holder or perhaps sliding a 400/200 in the larger holder that is good for the 600/800.

Perhaps you need a new cap or see if your nib and feed are set too far out.

[Tommaso Santojanni]

@Bo Bo Olson Thank you for your comments. Permit me to commend you on your superb pen holder and splendid vintage ink bottle. Yet, above all, I express my admiration for those little pearls of wisdom, discernible beyond your holder, with which I am in full accord.

Your images have stirred my desire to acquire both a pen and a dedicated pen-holder, possibly Pelikan. However, I favour a pen designed specifically for the pen-holder, rather than one adapted and used capped. Any suggestions?

Regarding the leaking 400NN, a highly skilled nib expert (not a restorer though) whom I will meet at the October London Pan Show, who had previously tuned the nib, made the following suggestion: "I believe there is a reasonable chance of fixing the issue, but I will need to disassemble the nib unit to inspect for any cracks. Should there be any, the repair will be more intricate; however, if not, it may simply require some gentle heating and re-greasing of the threads—a much simpler solution!" - if he fails to correct the leak, the pen will have to move to a new owner.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'm writing a 5 book western saga; that is always a year behind. The last book was supposed to be a 15 page flashback....I'm almost to that 15 pages. then add the before and end. With luck weeks.....then comes the cutting of 1/3 of the BS.

The 6th book, is a biography of a real woman in that western sage.

Mary Ann Alvord, walked across the prairie from the wilds of Missouri, for the '49 gold rush, then to Colorado for theirs in '59. Walked through 4-5 pairs of shoes on her way to California, in no one but babies or the deadly sick rode on one of the cocktail shaking Hollywood butter-makers. There was a southern route desert crossing, The 40 Mile Desert that cost some 4,000 dead in two years. After a couple years in the gold fields, they walked the northern route back to Missouri.

 

In the era when a woman made 50 cents a 12 hour day.

After her divorce for not chasing Montana gold, I thought anyone who did this deserved her own book. She got to keep her married name, in the court decided the divorce was not her fault.

Idaho Springs. The little White Building in the forefront is the Alvord House, the second best hotel in Idaho Springs.

Golden Colorado, almost capitol of Colorado. Her second hotel.

The Alford House in Denver was for three years the best Hotel in Denver.

The biography has a happy end, after only 20 years of divorce she re-marries her ex-husband, and they go back to watch the sunset together, the gold field where they were in 1849-50.

Beaten out by by ultra rich Tabor's Windsor Hotel in 1880....a bit of the third book occurs in it. 

This was one of the tallest skyscrapers of the era. Five stories high and with an observation deck....a sky-scraping 6 stores tall.

1880 an Otis elevator had to be as deep as it was tall, so they dug a hole in the ground 6 stories deep.

1881 Otis perfected the elevator, so one only needed a one story deep cellar to put up an elevator of 6 and more stores high.

(They had an escalator in a Cincinnati Department store before that.)

 

There were two 5 story tall 'newfangled' Department Stores in Denver built in 1881. They of course  had like in the Windsor, an elevator boy/man to make the elevator stop with out having to take big dangerous steps.  Also for the old deep elevators.

Before 1881 buildings were on the whole, outside of tenements, a max only 3 stories tall, in no one wanted to walk that high.

Only third class business were on the third floor.

.............

Telephones were for business only unless you had a mansion. You paid for the wire by the foot from the yardarm to the office; if I remember correctly it cost $40 for the rest of the apparatus.

There were as far as I could tell 6 women telephone operators in the US. I have three.

Men telephone operators, sort of IT, were late to work, rude and gossiped for drink or money about the business they over heard.

Being a telephone operator was the beginning of 'Woman's Lib'. One had to be related to someone to become a telegraph operator as a woman, and got stuck in the boonies where there were no saloons. Cowboys would ride 50 miles and more to stare at the exotic woman who had no man to tell her what to do.

Meanwhile, women telephone operators were, on time, cheerful and wouldn't be caught dead in a saloon...the main reason they were hired. Business stayed secret.

This picture is I think from 1884-5, in in the 1881 book, the yardarms were only 5-6 to a pole; not the 9-10 of later.

Telephones were invented in 1876, and by 1881 there were some 76,000 in the whole of the US.

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PM sent.

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I neglected pen holders for inkwells, so I have two pen holders in use; the Pelikan holds standard and large. Another holds narrow pens, in I had one in it. It is too narrow for standard pens.

So it might be you will have to buy a pen for a holder.

If buying used , which is the best way to go, do ask what pen fits.

 

 

I have a lot of inkwells, but am missing the dipless pen holders ...often from Esterbrook (with luck also the desk pen). In there was once an Esterbrook factory in England, perhaps you can pick up a deal with one of them.