Which Pilot Custom? Which NIB size?

[sidpost]

I want to pick up a Pilot Custom but, I am a bit lost in which NIB size I should I get.  The SFM #5 Nib worked well for me and BB NIBs were really good to me in all three sizes.  I am probably best off with an FM or M but, I do like a fat line.  The Fine options are likely better as a second future buy.  What is a reasonable "street cost" these days for these pens?

 

What words of wisdom do you have for me?  I tend to have a heavy hand as well and I am working on that with Fountain Pens; thicker lines let me know I'm pressing too hard.  I really need to work on my "light touch" so I'm thinking about an SFM Nib.

 

TIA,

Sid

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, sidpost said:

I want to pick up a Pilot Custom but, I am a bit lost in which NIB size I should I get. The SFM #5 Nib worked well for me…

 

The nib size is part and parcel of the Custom pen model you decide on getting.

• Custom 74, Custom Heritage 91, and Custom Heritage 92 use size number 5 nibs.
• Custom 742, Custom Heritage 912, and Custom Kaede use size number 10 nibs.
• Custom 743, Custom 823, Custom Enjyu, and Custom 845 use size number 15 nibs.
• Custom Urushi uses size number 30 nibs.

The nib type, e.g. Music (designated MS on the nib inscriptions), Waverly (designated WA), Soft (designated S‹width grade›), and the assumed default of a round-tipped nib in the absence of any other statement or qualification (e.g. F nibs are of that type, but B for Broad is an available width grade within that nib type, not in itself a type) is something else.

 

The nib's width grade — EF for Extra Fine, BB for Double Broad, and F, FM, M, and B in between — is something else again.

 

A Custom 74's SFM nib and Custom 74's FM nib would be of the same width grade (FM) but different types (Soft, versus the default and by implication round-tipped and not soft.) A Custom 74's SFM nib and Custom 742's SFM nib would be of the same type, same width grade, but different sizes (number 5 and number 10, respectively).

 

Then there's the nib's material and finish. A Custom 743's F nib and a Custom 845's F nib are of the same size (number 15), same type (round-tipped, by default), same width grade (Fine), different material (14K gold and 18K gold, respectively), and different finish (the C845's 18K gold nib is two-toned, but not all 18K gold nibs are two-toned; the size-10 18K gold F nib on my Pilot ‘Hannya Shingyo’, which has the same technical design and geometry as a Custom 742's 14K gold nib, is all yellow gold).

 

So, are you asking about “NIB size”, or nib width grade (making no distinction between size #5 SFM, size #10 SFM, and size #10 ‘regular’ FM), or nib type (making a distinction between SFM and FM, on account of the former being Soft and the latter not so, but no distinction between sizes #5 and #10)? Or did you mean more broadly “nib type” as the combination of size, type, width grade, material, and finish (and thus a rhodium-plated 14K gold size #10 SM nib on a Custom Heritage 912 is of a different nib type from a non-plated, yellow 14K gold size #10 SM nib on a Custom 742)?

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not trying to be schoolmarmish and tell you off; but please remember that many of your fellow hobbyists are discerning, perhaps geekish, in their understanding and preferences in pens, and by default I'll assume you are (or aspire to be) as well, when you're interacting with them and asking for feedback. If you're not yet at that level of granularity or precision in terms of pinpointing what you want to know (or ask us to advise), then let us bring you up to speed, or show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes!

 

If you just want to talk about nib size, we'll focus on that. Or perhaps just the width grade (so the SF nibs on the C74, CH91, CH742, CH912, C743, and F nibs on the C74, CH91, CH92, C742, CH912, C743, C823, Custom Kaede, Custom Enjyu, and Custom Urushi are all regarded as being in the same category by width grade). If you want to know about different sum-of-all-aspects types, we can do that too, and enumerate and discuss the dozens of “types” of nibs on Pilot Custom pens in that sense.

[sidpost]

Simply an awesome and well thought out post!

 

I am a rank novice.  While I can use a Fountain Pen pretty well and do basic things with one just fine, I know just enough to know how little I truly know!  🤣

 

What I am trying to understand with this purchase is what I get at each price level that will matter to me today at my experience level.  A pen with a #5 Nib is roughly half the cost of a pen with a #15 Nib and #10 Nibs are 90% the cost of a #15 Nib pen.

 

For aesthetic and practical reasons with my Safety Razors, I prefer Rhodium for BLING and durability.  However, Gold done well is beautiful and durable as well in a Fountain Pen.

 

I tried some Nibs at the Pilot demo booth which gave me a range of experiences.  The XF and even finer Nibs made a wonderfully crisp line without dragging or digging into the paper, or put another way, wasn't scratchy like previous Steel Nibs on cheap fountain pens with Medium and finer Nibs with generally small Nib sizes (#5 or possibly smaller).  I believe all of them were round tips as even the Music Nib didn't vary the line widths like I see with what I think are more chiseled tips for things like sheet music and Caligraphy.

 

I am not trying to become a Nib Connoisseur but, I am an engineer so I can get deep into the weeds in technical terms at times for no good reason.  At this point, I want to buy the best fountain pen I can for a reasonable amount of money.  $120USD for an NS ain't it!  Next up is $145 for the Rhodium #5 Nib option, $290USD for a #10, and $335USD for a #15 at the more common etailer sources I went to.

 

eBay and Europe might be sources to stretch my USA dollars but, unlike wet shave gear, I don't know enough to buy with confidence so, I tend to think sticking to a USA based etailer is my best option since I don't have access to a good stationary store in the rural area where I live.

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, sidpost said:

What I am trying to understand with this purchase is what I get at each price level that will matter to me today at my experience level.  A pen with a #5 Nib is roughly half the cost of a pen with a #15 Nib and #10 Nibs are 90% the cost of a #15 Nib pen.

…‹snip›…

At this point, I want to buy the best fountain pen I can for a reasonable amount of money.

 

I'm afraid In my view, what you seek:

• is too broad or comprehensive (“at each price level”),
• demands too much grounding or foundational knowledge (“understand … what I get”),
• requires analysis in a nebulous framework that is ultimately judged subjectively (“that will matter to me today at my experience level”, coupled with all the other details you gave),

all at once, and thus unlikely to be achievable for a newcomer or even someone who has spent up to a year in the hobby, even if others in the forum were to contribute data and information (in a DIKW hierarchy) in reply.

 

Similar questions have been asked here before; see (especially) the first two matches returned from this Google search query, which in addition to answers encapsulating contributed information, will also point you to information hosted externally that has broader coverage across pen models in the Pilot Custom product line  and their various characteristics/parameters. It should also give you an idea what to reasonably expect if what you're after is consultancy, not mere pointers to help you (slowly or quickly, at your own pace) build that comprehensive picture and knowledge base you want.

 

Your best bet for obtaining consultancy, especially in interactive fashion, would be to speak to a vendor who carries a wide enough range of models in the target space, notwithstanding,

 

7 hours ago, sidpost said:

I don't have access to a good stationary store in the rural area where I live.

 

Maybe there are retailers (that you'd be comfortable ordering from) offering Live Chat on their online storefronts to support prospective customers, with the tacit understanding that they'd also be steered by what they have and want to sell, and may not be entirely unbiased; their doing you a good turn and finding you something that satisfy all your requirements is presumably motivated by gaining your repeat custom and/or word-of-mouth endorsement to others. However,

 

7 hours ago, sidpost said:

I tend to think sticking to a USA based etailer

 

I don't have one to recommend, since I'm not based in the US (and haven't been there in decades), and I tend to forgo/avoid even browsing their websites — outside of Amazon.com — since so few US-based retailers in the fountain pen space seem keen enough to compete for the custom of overseas shoppers, by not offering free international shipping (even for high spend on an order) when I can name retailers in the UK, Netherlands, Italy, Malaysia, Japan, etc. that do.

[sidpost]

Regarding the USA e-tailers supporting foreign markets, I get where you are coming from.  For reasons I don't understand, small to mid-size e-tailers tend to be very USA-centric which is bad for people in Europe and Asia especially.

 

I am into Japanese kitchen knives pretty bad and have found Australia to be a good source for some really nice options.  Two of my three saltwater reels come from Australia as well with the third coming directly from Japan as a Japan only market option.  Almost all of my wet shaving gear comes from Europe, even soaps!  For reasons I don't understand, an EU based shave soap or creme costs me about a third what it does in the USA even with shipping included assuming I order ~$50USD worth of stuff.

[sidpost]

https://kmpn.blogspot.com/2011/06/pilot-custom.html

 

More searching turned up this older blog post which I found helpful for anyone else that is in a similar situation learning about these fountain pens remotely without a good local store.

[senzen]

Medium is probably a safe size with Pilot, if not exactly very broad, more in line with European Fine nibs; the one on my Metropolitan is very smooth, on my Capless it's exceptionally smooth.

 

It also depends on your hand writing style; mine is very light so my otherwise very smooth and bouncy 91 SFM kept missing the first part of most letters; finally bit the bullet and made it wetter, which transformed it, it is now totally reliable and makes Sailor Sky High shine. Someone who presses down probably wouldn't have this issue.

 

My 912 WA is a dream to write with, once I replaced a leaking CON-70. if I didn't have too many pens already I would probably look for a Stub 912.

 

As someone who swaps inks until I find the right combination, the 823 doesn't seem too practical, but it's probably a great pen for most.

[Surlyprof]

I have the Pilot Custom Enjyu that has the 18k #15 nib in a medium and it is one of my favorite pens.  It is an incredibly smooth writer.  I would agree with @senzen that it writes with almost the same line width as my fine nib Lamys.  I’ve considered a Pilot or Sailor broad nib for writing a bit bolder but hesitate for two reasons.  The first is that I’ve noticed with particularly smooth pens they almost seem to drag a little as you get into the larger nibs.  It’s almost as if there is a little surface tension holding it back a little.  Could be just in my head.  The other reason is that whenever I use my Enjyu I’m reminded of how delightful the experience is when writing with it.  Smooth and lively and just a joy to write with.  The thinner lineweight (than my mediums and broads) just adds a little precision to the writing.  If you were seeking a little more line variation, maybe an SM might be what you’re looking for.  The chart you posted showed that the 743 can be obtained with an #15 SM nib. 

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, Surlyprof said:

The chart you posted showed that the 743 can be obtained with an #15 SM nib. 

 

The up-to-date, official chart is published online by Pilot itself here: https://www.pilot-custom.jp/en/feature/nib.html

[davisgt]

I have a Pilot 823 Custom with a 14k medium nib. I have quickly fallen in love with this translucent Amber pen with lots of room for my very precious Havana Brown ink. ❤️ 

[nm4]

Trying to resist buying an 823 with the new signature nib.  I’ve found all of the pilot speciality nibs amazing…I’m sure the signature is no exception.   I already have so many stubs, CIs, and calligraphy nibs…must resist!

 

N

[sidpost]

18 hours ago, Surlyprof said:

I have the Pilot Custom Enjyu that has the 18k #15 nib in a medium and it is one of my favorite pens.  It is an incredibly smooth writer.  I would agree with @senzen that it writes with almost the same line width as my fine nib Lamys.  I’ve considered a Pilot or Sailor broad nib for writing a bit bolder but hesitate for two reasons.  The first is that I’ve noticed with particularly smooth pens they almost seem to drag a little as you get into the larger nibs.  It’s almost as if there is a little surface tension holding it back a little.  Could be just in my head.  The other reason is that whenever I use my Enjyu I’m reminded of how delightful the experience is when writing with it.  Smooth and lively and just a joy to write with.  The thinner lineweight (than my mediums and broads) just adds a little precision to the writing.  If you were seeking a little more line variation, maybe an SM might be what you’re looking for.  The chart you posted showed that the 743 can be obtained with an #15 SM nib. 

 

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the SFM or SM nib in a 742 or 743.  I think I am going to stalk eBay for a good gently used one out of Japan if I don't catch a deal on one in the USA.

[sidpost]

1 hour ago, nm4 said:

Trying to resist buying an 823 with the new signature nib.  I’ve found all of the pilot speciality nibs amazing…I’m sure the signature is no exception.   I already have so many stubs, CIs, and calligraphy nibs…must resist!

 

N

 

An 823 with its large ink capacity in Broad is on the backup list for me when I get some unexpected money for an impulse buy.  With an archival type ink, it should have a lot of capacity for addressing letters and filling out occasional money orders and similar things that I don't want to be altered.  A fine Sharpie will have to suffice for now.

[A Smug Dill]

1 minute ago, sidpost said:

With an archival type ink, it should have a lot of capacity

 

That is probably exactly what you wouldn't want to put in an eyedropper-filled model that you're not supposed to disassemble to clean.

[sidpost]

13 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

That is probably exactly what you wouldn't want to put in an eyedropper-filled model that you're not supposed to disassemble to clean.

 

Why?  Does it have solids or something that is really sludgey that won't flow well out of the pen and can't be flushed out?

[jmccarty3]

IMHO, a nib is the business end of a fountain pen. NIB is an acronym for "new in box."

 

We have the same problem in dermatology. People constantly refer to Mohs surgery as "MOHS" (as though it were an acronym). Mohs surgery is named after Dr. Frederick Mohs, the surgeon who invented the technique. I also see a lot of compulsive apostrophe misusers who insist on writing "Moh's," or even "Mohs's," who led the Israelites out of Egypt.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[langere]

36 minutes ago, sidpost said:

Why?  Does it have solids or something that is really sludgey that won't flow well out of the pen and can't be flushed out?

Yes, archival-quality inks tend to be harder to clean up.  That is especially the case with iron gall inks, but any ink that claims such "archival" or permanent properties, by its very nature, is going to be harder to clean.

 

The Pilot 823 is known to be more fragile when taken apart. The manufacturer specifically recommends against this.  

 

There are lots of threads in this forum that talk about this issue.

 

I recommend that, if you want to use difficult-to-clean inks, not to put it into a semi-transparent piston pen (the 823), but rather into one with a converter where the potentially discoloring of the converter does not really matter.

 

Erick

[sidpost]

Thanks everyone for the warnings/tips about the hard to clean archival inks!

 

Sounds like I'd be better off getting a gently used fountain pen off eBay with cartridges I can syringe refill or a converter so, staining and cleaning won't be a concern.  I was watching a Goulet Pens YouTube about similar issues with shimmer inks doing similar things clogging up nibs and related parts causing ink feed problems or outright failures often due to insufficient cleaning.