Need help narrowing down to my ideal fountain pen

[fope]

I am looking for an EF, piston-fill, resin, pen.

 

The nib, weight, and grip are all very important to me. I want:

 

1. A very smooth German EF or Japanese F nib that is stiff (nail).
2. A light-weight barrel for long sessions without fatigue (I write un-posted so cap weight doesn't matter).
3. Grip on the thicker side (I enjoy my Custom 74 grip which is 10.5 mm according to JetPens).
4. Resin body (this provides my fingers with the best grip in practice and usually comes clear, which I like).

 

My criteria has led me to the TWSBI ECO and Diamond 580. Although they are not resin, they seem to check all the other boxes. So my question to you becomes:

 

1. How do the TWSBI EF nibs on the ECO and Diamond compare in terms of stiffness and smoothness?
2. Are there other pens I should consider before buying a TWSBI?

 

I have come across Pelikan pistons, but don't know much about them and the black one I like is out of my price range (trying to stick to $200 a pen). When I go to their site they don't seem to advertise their high-end pens, which has me question their success and whether or not they are still in production.

 

The TWSBI ALR in black is gorgeous, but I've used ridged aluminum grips before (Gravitas) and they really don't seat well in my grip. Plus, I fear the aluminum will make it a heavier pen than I'd like. I'd appreciate input on this pen in particular if you have some to offer.

 

Edited September 10, 2024 by fope
Change title

[Claes]

You are looking at the wrong site. Try this one:

https://www.pelikan-passion.com/int/

 

[fope]

Thank you!

[Mechanical]

The grip on the ECO is a smooth plastic.  I find it comfortable, but perhaps resin presents a bit more grip friction.  The ECO-T has a triangular sculptured grip — in the same plastic as the regular ECO.

 

TWSBI offers replacement nib units for Diamond and Vac series pens, but I don’t think they offer replacement nibs for the ECO… in case that is a consideration.

 

TWSBI makes a resin pen called the Classic https://www.twsbi.com/products/twsbi-classic-sapphire-fountain-pen.  Also comes in white.  I’ve never seen or held one, so I’m not sure what they’re like to use.

[fope]

Good considerations. Thanks for putting the Classic on my radar!

[lamarax]

2 hours ago, Claes said:

You are looking at the wrong site. Try this one:

https://www.pelikan-passion.com/int/

 

 

 

...throwing the poor man right into the rabbit hole 🤭

[Bo Bo Olson]

removed fro lack of good input.

I post and hate nails.

[fope]

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

removed fro lack of good input.

It's not clear what was removed.

[Mercian]

2 hours ago, fope said:

It's not clear what was removed.

Bo Bo edited his own post to remove what he had initially written.

I suspect that he may have been decrying the size and the (lack of) balance of modern pens when posted.

 

As for your own quest, I think that you might like a Pelikan M400, or M600 (or M405 or M605), in that they are lightweight, and have very smooth pistons.
Modern Pelikan gold nibs are very stiff, but you will definitely need to go ‘EF’, as their nibs are quite broad, especially in comparison to Japanese pens.
And I would be surprised if you could get one new for $200 or less.
 

But you could well be able to get a new M200 or M205 for that price 
Same size as the M400/405, but with steel nibs, and with fewer trim rings on them.
The lack of a trim ring around the end of the grip-section near the nib on the M20x pens means that you never need to worry about cracking the plating, and then ink dissolving the trim ring.

 

I have an M205 from 2012, which has one of the earlier versions of the steel nib (with two chicks shown on the nib’s logo). It is slightly ‘bouncy’, rather than being a ‘nail’.
My 2020 M805 (which I had coveted for years, so treated myself to just as Covid-19 was getting here, because you know, the Plague 😱) has an 18k gold nib with a one-chick logo on it, and which is much stiffer.

 

I don’t know whether the current-production M20x nibs are genuine nails (like my M805’s gold nib), or whether they are slightly bouncy (like the steel nib on my M205).

 

Of course, for a lightweight piston-fill pen, you might like a Pilot Custom Heritage 92 (although, again, I don’t have one, so cannot say whether or not it has a stiff nib).

 

You may find that the M20x, M40x, or CH92 feel ‘short’ when not ‘posted’.
I use my M205, my 400, and my M400 posted, for that reason. I use the M805 un-posted.

 

For some left-field suggestions:
1- you might look for a Geha 700 Schulfüller from the 1950s.
I have one of them with a steel nib on it, and it is rather stiff (although some Geha steel nibs aren’t stiff). The nib on my Geha pen has a sun logo that has 8 ‘rays’ coming off the circle of the sun. I don’t know if that logo signified ‘stiff nib’ or not, but I include the information in case it does.
I re-lubricated my pen’s piston, and it is just as smooth as the pistons in my Pelikans.
It is a very similar length to an M20x or M40x, but its grip seems slightly girthier.
It is very comfortable (for me), but then I use it ‘posted’.

 

2- a Pelikan 400 (or 400N or 400NN) from 1950-65 will have a smooth piston and a huge ink capacity (more than a modern M80x or M100x!).
If you can find one with a nib that has the prefix ‘D’ - so, DEF, DF, DM, etc - that is a ‘durch’ nib, intended for writing through several layers of paper, in order to make copies.
Bo Bo describes these nibs as “the nail’s nail”, and “stiff enough to open-up a Sherman tank” 😁

I hope that any other members who own current-production M20x pens, or a Pilot CH92, can let you know more details of those pens.

 

I wish you good luck (& fun) on your quest 

Slàinte,
M.

 

Edited September 11, 2024 by Mercian
Edit to add ‘left-field suggestions’.

[Bo Bo Olson]

2 hours ago, Mercian said:

current-production M20x nibs are genuine nails (like my M805’s gold nib), or whether they are slightly bouncy (like the steel nib on my M205).

 

(Merican was right...I opened my mouth and swallowed my foot with an old rant.)

Current nibs are still springy regular flex; how ever I suggest getting a used one that is over five years old, with the classic tear drop tip...that writes with such a clean line.

If a double ball EF appears to write with a clean line. Modern double ball tipped nibs bigger than that appear to me and my honking big magnifying glass to not write with the clean line of the '50-65 and 82-97 400/600/800...the 200's '85 to about 5 years ago was also a tear drop tipped nib.

That 200's nib is as good and equal as the gold nibs of a '82-97 400 14k/585 gold nib.....

3 hours ago, Mercian said:

The nib on my Geha pen has a sun logo that has 8 ‘rays’ coming off the circle of the sun. I don’t know if that logo signified ‘stiff nib’ or not, but I include the information in case it does.

That would be a Degussa nib...sun split by a vertical line...some sun rays coming off the sun. They are the gold and silver producer for Germany and took over Osmia's very fine nib factory in 1932. They continued making nibs for Osmia, Osmia's nib customers (all the big companies made nibs for the @ 250 German pen manufacturers/mom and pop shops,) later Geha and the end of Soennecken with those companies stamped nibs.

 

I would expect spring regular flex of Geha's school pen, stubbed semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex to be made by Degussa...............they stopped making nibs in @ 2000, when Mutschler closed down.

If they made a nail, someone requested it...but I think that someone would have used Lamy or Herlitz or Tropen, besides the famous H and D Pelikan nibs.

[TMLee]

I suggest you prioritise the nib above the other factors.

 

Its the crucial part of the writing experience.

 

I would shortlist :

 

the SAILOR 1911 PROFIT LARGE <EF>

Reasons

- the nib is hard as nails but buttery smooth (this is typical of Sailor nibs)

- the drawback is the ink capacity, only convertor amount

- the cigar shaped body is ergonomic.

 

the Chinese copy of the PILOT CUSTOM 823 , I forgot the brand. WING SUNG ? Can someone chime in ?

Reasons :

- they are $affordable. Buy a few.

Then buy a few more additional  spare nibs from them.

- These are steel nibs. Meaning they are rigid. Rigidity matters if your writing is small to extra small.

Buy them and get them re-smoothened , DIY or nibmeister. Its worth having your nibs reground since you are particular about your writing experience. You won't regret it.

- the ink reservoir is huge - its a vac-fill like the 823.

- the copied ergonomics is excellent as is consistently reported about the 823.

- I cant remember if the Chinese nibs are as large as the 823. If they are , its a plus point. Large nibs allow you to see your handwriting better than smaller nibs, - less obstruction.

 

I find the TWSBI ergonomics not great over longer writing bouts.

I am not sure why. They feel very rigid after some time. 

Its faceted also . It becomes noticeable after some time of writing. It could be becos of the weight ? due to metal innards? My point is that weight can be overcome by good ergonomics. Eg, the  823 (also has metal innards just like the TWSBI) and the MB149 too (large pen, even larger nib, but feels good in the hand)

If you still want to get a TWSBI , I recommend you get a few spare nibs, then get one or 2 re-smoothened to your preference.

( I registered the TWSBI faceted body as a negative for you bcos of your little gripe about the ridged section in your FP. This means you are sensitive in your pengrip , ie the tactile experience of your instrument. A simple (unridged, unfaceted) cigar shape can accommodate the constant shifts in your pengrip over a longer than usual writing bout. )

 

I recommend that you consider other factors in trying to find  that ideal FP .

In trying to achieve a good writing experience, you would want to minimize as many variables as possible.

so do consider :

Nib,

Paper,

Ink,

Ergonomics of pen body

 

Invest in paper. Use good (smooth) Japanese paper.

The reason is that <EF> nibs are very fine tipped and is less forgiving on the paper surface.

Becos its so fine tipped, it easily digs further into the paper fibres. So smoother papers resolve this problem somewhat.

Good paper is not really expensive. Not as expensive as inks.

Good inks dont have to be expensive too.

I consider the PILOT IROSHIZUKU inks as really good.

 

Good luck on your search.

☺️

 

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I find nails to be like roller balls. Hard, joyless, and so what if they write in a wet line....if lucky.

A springy nib, what I call regular flex, gives a comfortable ride and minimum amounts of natural line variation.  I just don't know what other modern nibs are regular flex than the Pelikan 200 & 1000.

 

(A Pelikan factory stubbed semi-flex 400nn ('56-65) would my world survival pen. Holds @ 2/0ml ink, has a slightest hair more balance than a 400...only took me two years to decide that. A factory stubbed semi-flex '50-54 400 would be second choice. both have great balance posted. The 400 is still made today, but not with such a grand nib, which shows 70 years of the same grand pen. )

 

If I find the 800 to be large and clunky, the 1000 would like my 149***, would never find use. But there are lost of folks that think a 800 is the normal natural size of a fountain pen.

I find the old standard sized pen with a springy regular flex nib, be that an Esterbrook DJ, Pelikan 400/600 posted, to be nimble and well balanced, and have a comfortable ride.

 

.........I do not care for the modern 400's '98-now double ball semi-nail nib. But a semi-vintage springy regular flex, '82-97 or vintage '50-65 nib will fit the pen and give it a life.

 

*** part of a live auction lot, that I didn't look at at any other pens at all, I was just after the Hunter Toledo, and the springy W.Germany nib of an 800.....in I am willing to put up with a 800...for that real fine springy nib.

I've tried the oversized 149 in my hand before, and it was a gigantic pen...at least to me; so I had not interest in such a pen...........haven't inked it since the first try....

That Burl Diplomat was made in Japan, and the M nib is a F.

The (second down black pen) Waterman Mann 200's F nib is narrow as a Pelikan 200's EF.

That Nobliese is a real wet OB. ...is out in the pen cup. I needed a wide wet pen to see if asa-gao showed better color than in a thin nib. It did show darker color. Asa-gao was raved about...I don't know why.

In spite of being silver plated, with fair balance, because it's a nail I seldom use it...but Asa-gao's wet enough to overcome the hardness of the nail nib.. Butter Smoothness, seems to me to a need with a nail nib.

I do like a touch of paper feel when I write. I do use good to better papers....because of shading and feel.

[Mercian]

On 9/12/2024 at 1:00 AM, Bo Bo Olson said:

That would be a Degussa nib...sun split by a vertical line...some sun rays coming off the sun…

Actually, I ‘managed to’ describe the logo on my Geha 700’s nib incorrectly earlier 
Sorry 😔

 

So, I have now started this ➡️ thread on FPN’s ‘Other Brands - Europe’ board ⬅️ in order to show the nib’s logo, and to ask whether anyone recognises it.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

If I was perfect, I'd be telling Billy Gates when he has to be at work...social comment deleted.

 

So don't worry about the small stuff.

[fope]

On 9/11/2024 at 4:40 PM, Mercian said:

As for your own quest, I think that you might like...

 

Thanks, M! Some really good info in this post. Thanks for taking the time to make the thorough write up.

[fope]

On 9/12/2024 at 4:46 AM, TMLee said:

I suggest you prioritise the nib above the other factors...

 

Very good points made, Lee.

 

As for paper, I use Rhodia premium. I tried some Japanese notebooks and found the paper to be too thin for my liking and the books themselves to be flimsy. Not an indication of poor quality, just that they readily bend and sway. The don't maintain structure and so, become easily damaged when packing them in a bag or quickly taking them on or off the shelf. I also found the bleed through to be against my liking. I forgot the brand. Likely Tomoe River. Any suggestions or do you find my experience accurate?

 

The Sailor seems to be the kind of nib I'm searching for. Out of my price range for now, but going on the list. The converter is a negative.

 

Funny you mention the 823 because I am starting to lean towards a vacuum fill over piston. Seems like a more enjoyable filling process. One fluid motion and no parts to roll off my desk. I haven't tried any knock-offs. The 823 is definitely a strong contender given my criteria, but when faced with a TWSBI Vac for almost a 6th of the price, the TWSBI becomes very attractive. Plus, the Pilot is springy. Now, I know you mentioned the Chinese version which has steel. That might be a good fit, but I dislike supporting Chinese knock-offs.

 

I currently use Namiki inks and already have Iroshizuku Take-sumi in my cart, waiting for the next order. I find them wonderful. Beautiful flow, they don't dry out, and easy to clean. I expect the Iroshizuku to be the same, but better.

 

Thanks for mentioning the points about the TWSBI. The faceting might get to me. Now that I'm considering the 700R, that might not be an issue since it appears to be round. You hit the nail on the head. Cigar shape is ideal for me. Very keen, relevant observations.

[sandy101]

If the custom 74 works for you, why not get an F/EF nib for your custom 74?

 

The nibs are changeable. 

[AmandaW]

2 hours ago, sandy101 said:

If the custom 74 works for you, why not get an F/EF nib for your custom 74?

 

The nibs are changeable. 

It's possible to get Pilot nibs as replacements?

[sandy101]

I'm sure someone more knowledgable than me will post here.

 

But if not, maybe a custom 74 with a f/ef nib wiould give you what you are looking for?

[A Smug Dill]

On 9/11/2024 at 3:33 AM, fope said:

I am looking for an EF, piston-fill, resin, pen.

 

On 9/22/2024 at 1:22 AM, fope said:

Funny you mention the 823 because I am starting to lean towards a vacuum fill over piston. Seems like a more enjoyable filling process.

 

13 hours ago, sandy101 said:

But if not, maybe a custom 74 with a f/ef nib wiould give you what you are looking for?

 

Probably not, unless the OP starts leaning in some other direction. The Pilot Custom 74 is a cartridge/converter-filled model, and I've never seen anyone equate the CON-40 converter with an adequate piston-filling mechanism, or the CON-70 converter with an adequate vacuum-filling mechanism even when vacuum-filling does not in anyway imply there is a shut-off mechanism to isolate the ink reservoir from the feed.

 

On 9/22/2024 at 10:13 AM, AmandaW said:

It's possible to get Pilot nibs as replacements?

 

Not as retail products. I don't know whether there are any authorised repair agents or service centres overseas to which Pilot will supply nibs, business-to-business, as replacement parts if asked.