Ebay Experience

[lascosas]

I agree with Seney724.  I am only on Ebay as a Buyer, but when I ask Sellers for contact info, the more established ones are clear that this violates Ebay's rules & can get them in trouble.  Ebay wants to ensure that Buyer and Seller have no way of contacting each other without involving Ebay.  Yes, a few Seller's throw in their business cards, but very few.

 

And frankly I ask for contact information, particularly email addresses, so that I can cut-out Ebay for future transactions.  Particularly when I encounter someone who is thinning their ink or pen collection I recommend that we do business outside of Ebay.

[OCArt]

I regularly purchase pens and other items from eBay and have only had two problems out of a couple hundred transactions.  In both of those cases I opened a eBay dispute and the matter was quickly resolved in my favor. I only pay with PayPal so have that extra level of protection too.

[stephanos]

  On 8/25/2024 at 9:26 PM, NickJC said:

And I was just looking for it.... 😞

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For what it's worth, I have a 50ml bottle of Waterman's Absolute Brown that I almost never use. I've had it for at least 8 years, and it's still a little over half full. If you want it, you're welcome to it. I wouldn't need payment for the ink itself, just reimbursement of the shipping cost (PM me). Be aware, though, that I'm based in the European Union, so it may not be worth it for you.

 

I'll add my 5c on the original topic: I have used eBay quite extensively since about 2007, though much at all since the inflation explosion. As with many who have posted here, most of my experience has been positive, not least because I've had very low expectations unless buying from a seller with whom I've previously interacted. One of the keys to my generally positive experience, I think, has been that I refuse to buy from sellers outside the EU. This means that I don't have to worry about customs charges and complications/returns in case of misselling (the thresholds for paying customs fees and concomitant post office surcharges are quite low). This has led to my missing out on some items, but it's been beneficial on the whole, and good for my blood pressure.

 

[inkstainedruth]

  On 8/27/2024 at 8:39 PM, Seney724 said:

Thanks for sharing your tips.

When was the last time you tried to get a phone number from a seller?

To the best of my knowledge, eBay has completely shut down any attempts by buyers and/or sellers to get contact information from one another.  There are still some (illegal) "work-arounds" for creative souls but eBay's AI screening tools get better and better all the time. 

eBay works assiduously hard at eliminating any loop hole which will cost them money whereas they are much less interested in doing something if the potential negative financial impact is on someone else.  

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I was wondering the same thing. 

The closest I've ever had to anything like that was when a guy I've dealt with before (who is in Europe) PM'd me about the last pen I bought from him (the Parker Vector "Fleur") to say it had been returned as "undeliverable"!  And was kind of freaking out (this was awhile back when there were a LOT of complaints in another thread about DHL).  And I sent him my FULL address and told him to make sure to use the full 9-digit zip code because this sort of thing has happened before (with various shipping companies, and even with the USPS itself) -- I've had mail/packages delivered to the same street address in a different town (and since both are in the greater Pittsburgh area, the ONLY difference is the names of the recipients and the last 2 digits of the five digit zip code) -- and have had NUMEROUS things delivered to the other people instead of us.  And the seller then tossed it in what appeared to be the regular mail at his end and I got it in under a week....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[inkstainedruth]

@stephanos Thanks for the offer, but I suspect that the shipping charges to the US will make it cost-prohibitive for both of us.  

I do remember seeing a thread where someone did a comparison of various other brown inks as possible replacements (I still have about half a bottle of Absolute Brown, and most recently was using it in a chased black hard rubber Waterman Ideal ringtop -- which doesn't hold a lot of ink, so I wasn't going through it all that fast after getting the pen restored last spring at the Baltimore/Washington Pen Show), and don't use brown inks as much as other colors.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[NickJC]

  On 8/28/2024 at 4:49 PM, stephanos said:

 

For what it's worth, I have a 50ml bottle of Waterman's Absolute Brown that I almost never use. I've had it for at least 8 years, and it's still a little over half full. If you want it, you're welcome to it. I wouldn't need payment for the ink itself, just reimbursement of the shipping cost (PM me). Be aware, though, that I'm based in the European Union, so it may not be worth it for you.

 

I'll add my 5c on the original topic: I have used eBay quite extensively since about 2007, though much at all since the inflation explosion. As with many who have posted here, most of my experience has been positive, not least because I've had very low expectations unless buying from a seller with whom I've previously interacted. One of the keys to my generally positive experience, I think, has been that I refuse to buy from sellers outside the EU. This means that I don't have to worry about customs charges and complications/returns in case of misselling (the thresholds for paying customs fees and concomitant post office surcharges are quite low). This has led to my missing out on some items, but it's been beneficial on the whole, and good for my blood pressure.

 

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Thank you !

 

It would be too costly I think...but so very much appreciate your offer !

 

I may try Birmingham Inks burlywood, distressed leather etc.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Have to apologize in advance, but I need to give you some tough love here. Lots of people buy vintage pens expecting pens in pristine condition, and if you do that, I think you might be better off buying new pens or NOS. Or paying a premium buying from a reputable (but expensive) retailer like Peyton Street Pens. Them's the breaks.

 

You purchased this pen for $30 - that is a fair price for this pen unrestored. All of the issues with the pen (minus maybe the sac) are visible in the pictures in the listing. I saw this listing when it was live and I immediately saw that the nib/feed bushing was pushed out. The loose clip is visible in one of the other pictures.

 

There is dual responsibility when it comes to making purchases. The seller needs to provide an accurate description, and you need to do your due diligence in regards to research and inspecting the photos. The seller deserves some blame - they should have been much more descriptive about the pen's issues but you also didn't do the latter. On top of that, you chose to come on here and name and shame the seller which I might add, is against the forum rules ("I will not name, names thbut the pics by the seller are all the same style, you can figure it out").

 

As for the sac, I have seen these strange looking sacs before, I don't know where they come from. I saw a lot of these sold on eBay recently. I know a lot of people are having trouble sourcing sacs because Peter of Pensacs.com is going through some medial issues so they might have needed to get their sacs from an alternative source. Did it fill? If so, it was as described.

 

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. You paid $30 for a pen that's worth probably $120 "professionally" restored, and you're surprised you got something that wasn't up to your standards. That's on you. Personally I don't trust random "restored" pens on eBay and I only buy unrestored, or if something is listed as "working" I assume it will need work.

[NickJC]

  On 8/29/2024 at 2:25 PM, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

Have to apologize in advance, but I need to give you some tough love here. Lots of people buy vintage pens expecting pens in pristine condition, and if you do that, I think you might be better off buying new pens or NOS. Or paying a premium buying from a reputable (but expensive) retailer like Peyton Street Pens. Them's the breaks.

 

You purchased this pen for $30 - that is a fair price for this pen unrestored. All of the issues with the pen (minus maybe the sac) are visible in the pictures in the listing. I saw this listing when it was live and I immediately saw that the nib/feed bushing was pushed out. The loose clip is visible in one of the other pictures.

 

There is dual responsibility when it comes to making purchases. The seller needs to provide an accurate description, and you need to do your due diligence in regards to research and inspecting the photos. You didn't do the latter. On top of that, you chose to come on here and name and shame the seller which I might add, is against the forum rules ("I will not name, names thbut the pics by the seller are all the same style, you can figure it out").

 

As for the sac, I have seen these strange looking sacs before, I don't know where they come from. I saw a lot of these sold on eBay recently. I know a lot of people are having trouble sourcing sacs because Peter of Pensacs.com is going through some medial issues so they might have needed to get their sacs from an alternative source. Did it fill? If so, it was as described.

 

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. You paid $30 for a pen that's worth probably $120 "professionally" restored, and you're surprised you got something that wasn't up to your standards. That's on you. Personally I don't trust random "restored" pens on eBay and I only buy unrestored, or if something is listed as "working" I assume it will need work.

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No need to apologize, I am a big boy, have thick skin, this is the internet, and you are entitled to your opinion!

 

I would draw your attention to the very very very very first line of the message:

 

"This post is not meant to chide, disparage, embarrass, or otherwise engage in anything that would harm ones ability to conduct transactions in the market place. "

 

It still isn't the purpose, my thought for the post was to share *my* experience.  I guess if the moderators thought I was "shaming or defaming" someone, they would have pulled the post - and they still might - it is their prerogative as the admin of the content if rules have been broken. 

 

Now to your points - I was not expecting to buy a restored pen - as we all know that come at a different price point and are more than replacing a sac.

 

If you read the rest of the post, all your other comments are readily answered - the sac was used and was not new - look at the pics.  

 

How can one determine that in an ebay add, especially if the image is not given - at a bare minimum one would expect that the sac be new and done right - this is not new (IMO) and readily come off the nipple.

 

As far as the other items, especially the clip, was not 'described' - however, in retrospect in one image you can see it 'sprung' - I didn't notice it - let alone expect the clip to be floppy !

 

I am not at all annoyed at the transaction, the seller made it right, IMO, and would buy from them again with a new lens of understanding of their descriptives.

 

Additionally, if you read the rest of the OP, you will see I basically re-iterate your comments about asking questions etc.

 

Appreciate your take on the matter and the time for you to respond, these are good conversations for folks to have.

 

 

 

 

[ErrantSmudge]

(deleted)

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

  On 8/29/2024 at 2:44 PM, NickJC said:

 

No need to apologize, I am a big boy, have thick skin, this is the internet, and you are entitled to your opinion!

 

I would draw your attention to the very very very very first line of the message:

 

"This post is not meant to chide, disparage, embarrass, or otherwise engage in anything that would harm ones ability to conduct transactions in the market place. "

 

It still isn't the purpose, my thought for the post was to share *my* experience.  I guess if the moderators thought I was "shaming or defaming" someone, they would have pulled the post - and they still might - it is their prerogative as the admin of the content if rules have been broken. 

 

Now to your points - I was not expecting to buy a restored pen - as we all know that come at a different price point and are more than replacing a sac.

 

If you read the rest of the post, all your other comments are readily answered - the sac was used and was not new - look at the pics.  

 

How can one determine that in an ebay add, especially if the image is not given - at a bare minimum one would expect that the sac be new and done right - this is not new (IMO) and readily come off the nipple.

 

As far as the other items, especially the clip, was not 'described' - however, in retrospect in one image you can see it 'sprung' - I didn't notice it - let alone expect the clip to be floppy !

 

I am not at all annoyed at the transaction, the seller made it right, IMO, and would buy from them again with a new lens of understanding of their descriptives.

 

Additionally, if you read the rest of the OP, you will see I basically re-iterate your comments about asking questions etc.

 

Appreciate your take on the matter and the time for you to respond, these are good conversations for folks to have.

 

 

 

 

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I guess I just don't see the value in you sharing this experience given the issues were small and you got it resolved, in your own words. It's pretty milquetoast when it comes to eBay interactions. I've been collecting vintage pens for 3-4 years now and I've learned my lesson in regards to being careful with eBay listings. 

 

I've had instances where I saw a good deal, put a bid in, and then received the pen in the mail and saw that it had some glaring issue that was visible in the listing that I didn't pay attention to. I make sure to ask questions before bidding now. It's true that you couldn't have been able to tell the state of the sac but I am not convinced that the sac is bad.

 

Also, there's an element of common sense. I've seen this seller's pens up for bid before. In several instances they were very dirty, or the nibs were filthy. I think that tells you the quality of the "restoration" and to be honest, their pens sell for an appropriate amount given that. I wouldn't buy them myself. Everyone defines "restored" differently (is it just putting a new sac in and calling a day? is it polishing up the pen? is it fixing the clip?) and it's up to you to make sure that your expectations line up with what you're buying.

 

In regards to the "shaming" part, I think regardless of your intent, your screenshots, the full listing description, and in your words, "I will not name, names thbut the pics by the seller are all the same style, you can figure it out." - you are essentially doing that. 

 

[NickJC]

  On 8/29/2024 at 3:06 PM, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

 

I guess I just don't see the value in you sharing this experience. It's pretty milquetoast when it comes to eBay interactions. I've been collecting vintage pens for 3-4 years now and I've learned my lesson in regards to being careful with eBay listings. 

 

I've had instances where I saw a good deal, put a bid in, and then received the pen in the mail and saw that it had some glaring issue that was visible in the listing that I didn't pay attention to. I make sure to ask questions before bidding now. It's true that you couldn't have been able to tell the state of the sac but I am not convinced that the sac is bad.

 

Also, there's an element of common sense. I've seen this seller's pens up for bid before. In several instances they were very dirty, or the nibs were filthy. I think that tells you the quality of the "restoration" and to be honest, their pens sell for an appropriate amount given that. I wouldn't buy them myself. Everyone defines "restored" differently (is it just putting a new sac in and calling a day? is it polishing up the pen? is it fixing the clip?) and it's up to you to make sure that your expectations line up with what you're buying.

 

In regards to the "shaming" part, I think regardless of your intent, your screenshots, the full listing description, and in your words, "I will not name, names thbut the pics by the seller are all the same style, you can figure it out." - you are essentially doing that. 

 

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Got it !

 

I lack common sense, and am a neophyte in dealing with ebay folks and auctions for the last 23 years....

 

Noted - thanks for letting me know!

 

Enjoy the holiday weekend !

 

Nick

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

  On 8/29/2024 at 3:11 PM, NickJC said:

Got it !

 

I lack common sense, and am a neophyte in dealing with ebay folks and auctions for the last 23 years....

 

Noted - thanks for letting me know!

 

Enjoy the holiday weekend !

 

Nick

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I'm not saying you lack common sense in general, but I am just saying that it's worth using common sense when looking at listings. I would consider the pushed out bushing, the dirty nibs, etc. as red flags. Usually if "restorers" are not careful with some aspects of restoration, odds are that they took shortcuts in other places as well.

 

There's a reason no one else bid on this pen. I don't want to say there's no such thing as a "good deal" but if people aren't bidding on a desirable item, odds are it is for a good reason. All I ask for is for you to acknowledge your responsibility in this purchase. The seller is not without blame but that street goes both ways.

[Seney724]

  On 8/29/2024 at 3:11 PM, NickJC said:

Got it !

 

I lack common sense, and am a neophyte in dealing with ebay folks and auctions for the last 23 years....

 

Noted - thanks for letting me know!

 

Enjoy the holiday weekend !

 

Nick

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Well, for what its worth, I see great value and..... much appreciate..... @NickJC's posts.

@NickJC, thank you for taking the time to make us aware of your experience.  IMO, you have not crossed any lines or done anything wrong

 

This site is blessed to have some very active and involved Moderators. Trust me, if they had any concerns you would hear from them!!

 

 

[NickJC]

  On 8/29/2024 at 3:17 PM, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

 

I'm not saying you lack common sense in general, but I am just saying that it's worth using common sense when looking at listings. I would consider the pushed out bushing, the dirty nibs, etc. as red flags. Usually if "restorers" are not careful with some aspects of restoration, odds are that they took shortcuts in other places as well.

 

There's a reason no one else bid on this pen. I don't want to say there's no such thing as a "good deal" but if people aren't bidding on a desirable item, odds are it is for a good reason. All I ask for is for you to acknowledge your responsibility in this purchase. The seller is not without blame but that street goes both ways.

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You seem to have implied it, and maybe I inferred it from the structure of the statement!  Still all good!  I am not offended at all - 

 

I think in retrospect - the two items that did it for me were the sac and the clip - you might not be convinced and you don't need to be - I do.

 

Did you inspect it?  No - 

 

Did you see it slip off the nipple? No - 

 

Did you see the pinched section of the sac that looked as if it was about to fail? No - 

 

But I did and it is my purchase - that is one thing that cannot be seen - but we assume that at least that would be done with a modicum of care - or no?

 

The clip should have been described better - it wasn't.

 

What you are hanging your hat on in this conversation is the word - 'restored'.

 

I was not expecting a fully restored pen, I was expecting a good sac, a valid description of the clip as an example - let alone a re-assembly where the nib/collar/feed are at least placed back in the section in the orientation it has been sitting for  70+/- years - not the way it was jammed in.

 

My responsibility in this transaction, is to not read into the title, I didn't expect a full restoration based on images, but my responsibility is when I hand over my hard earned dollars, is the expectation that in a buyer and sellers' agreement, the items are as described to the fullest extent possible - it wasn't.   I also could have returned it, I didn't we came a to an agreement of which constituted my supplying a new sac, installing it - that is time and money on my end to correct a deficiency that was not described.  That s my time (it's a hobby so it is fun to tinker) but money in parts (sac$)

 

Could the tone of the message indicate that I expected a 'restored' pen?  I think my implication was more tongue in cheek that a true expectation - so I will take responsibility for maybe a bit of lack of clarity -  

 

We have beat this to death and I still appreciate your points, and I do not take umbrage to them - and your points are not 100% wrong, I may disagree with a couple but that is ok too !

 

And let it be known - I still watch his auctions and *would* buy from him again, even knowing what I know based on this last transaction !

 

  On 8/29/2024 at 3:24 PM, Seney724 said:

Well, for what its worth, I see great value and..... much appreciate..... @NickJC's posts.

@NickJC, thank you for taking the time to make us aware of your experience.  IMO, you have not crossed any lines or done anything wrong

 

This site is blessed to have some very active and involved Moderators. Trust me, if they had any concerns you would hear from them!!

 

 

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This is very kind of you, and I am basically a new person here and I mean no offense to anyone in the OP - 

 

 

[Bisquitlips]

  On 8/27/2024 at 8:39 PM, Seney724 said:

Thanks for sharing your tips.

When was the last time you tried to get a phone number from a seller?

To the best of my knowledge, eBay has completely shut down any attempts by buyers and/or sellers to get contact information from one another.  There are still some (illegal) "work-arounds" for creative souls but eBay's AI screening tools get better and better all the time. 

eBay works assiduously hard at eliminating any loop hole which will cost them money whereas they are much less interested in doing something if the potential negative financial impact is on someone else.  

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As you stated, you can't get private info through eBay's messaging directly. You have to get creative and get the seller's info by messaging references to forums in common or other means of communication Ebay allows; which are almost nonexistent.

 

But if you are determined you can find a way.  I find the seller is most always affable to provide what I request.  If not, I move on..