Parker Duofold Centennial 14K 585 nibs origin

[aurore]

Do you know where the early Centennial 14K nibs were made? Was it in England or rather in the U.S.?

[Matlock]

10 hours ago, aurore said:

Do you know where the early Centennial 14K nibs were made? Was it in England or rather in the U.S.?

As far as I know they were made in either England or, more likely, France. Certainly not U.S.

[aurore]

19 minutes ago, Matlock said:

As far as I know they were made in either England or, more likely, France. Certainly not U.S.

Thank you. I would say that in 1987 France was highly improbable, while Janesville plant was still quite in. The acrylic bodies were engraved "U.K." but 14ct nib had not been made in England for a rather while by then. 

[Matlock]

8 hours ago, aurore said:

Thank you. I would say that in 1987 France was highly improbable, while Janesville plant was still quite in. The acrylic bodies were engraved "U.K." but 14ct nib had not been made in England for a rather while by then. 

I have no proof, just my theory. By 1987 Parker was a British company but most top end pens were made in the French Meru plant. The Duofold was introduced by Parker UK but only very few early pens had 14k nibs and, at that time no British made Parkers, other than the Duofold, had gold nibs. The Duofold continued to be made at Newhaven, with 18k nibs, until the plant closed in 2010 and production moved to Waterman Nantes in France. I rathe think that all Duofold nibs were produced in France, first in Meru and then Nantes, but that is just my theory. Perhaps someone can come along with the definitive answer.

[Penguincollector]

I wonder if @MisterP would know?

[aurore]

14 hours ago, Matlock said:

I have no proof, just my theory. By 1987 Parker was a British company but most top end pens were made in the French Meru plant. The Duofold was introduced by Parker UK but only very few early pens had 14k nibs and, at that time no British made Parkers, other than the Duofold, had gold nibs. The Duofold continued to be made at Newhaven, with 18k nibs, until the plant closed in 2010 and production moved to Waterman Nantes in France. I rathe think that all Duofold nibs were produced in France, first in Meru and then Nantes, but that is just my theory. Perhaps someone can come along with the definitive answer.

 

Thank you. This makes sense indeed. However I quite believe that the vast majority of Duofold Centennial nibs had been made in Newhaven until the factory's shutdown. Not sure regarding the first nibs in 1987 such as those 14K. Also the grind of Centennial looks rather English, not French (because broader and a bit different in shape than a typical French grind). 

However the fact that in those days no Parker gold nibs had been made in Britain is a serious argument indeed.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, aurore said:

 

Thank you. This makes sense indeed. However I quite believe that the vast majority of Duofold Centennial nibs had been made in Newhaven until the factory's shutdown. Not sure regarding the first nibs in 1987 such as those 14K. Also the grind of Centennial looks rather English, not French (because broader and a bit different in shape than a typical French grind). 

However the fact that in those days no Parker gold nibs had been made in Britain is a serious argument indeed.

 

"Also the grind of Centennial looks rather English, not French (because broader and a bit different in shape than a typical French grind)"

You may be right (who knows) but I have just compared my 14k, 18k UK Duofold and my 18k French Duofold nibs and they appear identical (apart, of course, from the makings).

[aurore]

3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

 

"Also the grind of Centennial looks rather English, not French (because broader and a bit different in shape than a typical French grind)"

You may be right (who knows) but I have just compared my 14k, 18k UK Duofold and my 18k French Duofold nibs and they appear identical (apart, of course, from the makings).

 

Yes, that's true. However this eventually might be (though not sure that it is) a result of a vice-versa continuity - after taking all the machines and moving to France (after almost 25 years of manufacturing Centennials) they perhaps just kept the patterns the public had been accustomed to. While in 1987 no modern Duofold grind pattern existed. That said if you compare the current Duofold grind with the current high end Waterman (like "Exception" line) they are completely different, so was the 80s Parker French production vs. Centennial.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, aurore said:

 

Yes, that's true. However this eventually might be (though not sure that it is) a result of a vice-versa continuity - after taking all the machines and moving to France (after almost 25 years of manufacturing Centennials) they perhaps just kept the patterns the public had been accustomed to. While in 1987 no modern Duofold grind pattern existed. That said if you compare the current Duofold grind with the current high end Waterman (like "Exception" line) they are completely different, so was the 80s Parker French production vs. Centennial.

We need confirmation from someone who worked at Newhaven prior to the closure.

[aurore]

27 minutes ago, Matlock said:

We need confirmation from someone who worked at Newhaven prior to the closure.

 

Very true. Hopefully someone throws light on....

[aurore]

7 hours ago, Matlock said:

We need confirmation from someone who worked at Newhaven prior to the closure.

Btw I have just realized that Mr. John Sorowka once mentioned that Duofold were the last British made gold nibs (not sure whether already since 1987).

[Matlock]

13 hours ago, aurore said:

Btw I have just realized that Mr. John Sorowka once mentioned that Duofold were the last British made gold nibs (not sure whether already since 1987).

That's very interesting.

[aurore]

3 hours ago, Matlock said:

That's very interesting.

 

Though some lady several years ago started her own project (with the help from John), unfortunately I am not aware how it goes...

[MisterP]

From 1988 when the International and Centennial duofolds were introduced, all duofold Centennial and International and their components (including nibs) were made in the Parker plant in Newhaven (England). This continued until the plant closed in 2010 and production was moved to the Waterman factory in Nantes (France). I believe it continues there to this day.

[Matlock]

12 hours ago, MisterP said:

From 1988 when the International and Centennial duofolds were introduced, all duofold Centennial and International and their components (including nibs) were made in the Parker plant in Newhaven (England). This continued until the plant closed in 2010 and production was moved to the Waterman factory in Nantes (France). I believe it continues there to this day.

Thank you.

[Matlock]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:06 PM, MisterP said:

From 1988 when the International and Centennial duofolds were introduced, all duofold Centennial and International and their components (including nibs) were made in the Parker plant in Newhaven (England). This continued until the plant closed in 2010 and production was moved to the Waterman factory in Nantes (France). I believe it continues there to this day.

I have just checked my two Duofold Centennial 1987 pens (bought new from authorised Parker outlets, one was Harrods) and both have the French 18K hallmark on the nibs along with the Parker Meru maker's mark so pretty certain the nibs were made in France

[aurore]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:14 AM, Matlock said:

I have just checked my two Duofold Centennial 1987 pens (bought new from authorised Parker outlets, one was Harrods) and both have the French 18K hallmark on the nibs along with the Parker Meru maker's mark so pretty certain the nibs were made in France

 

Now that's a great input! Wouldn't you eventually share some photos of the mentioned marks, please?

[aurore]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:14 AM, Matlock said:

I have just checked my two Duofold Centennial 1987 pens (bought new from authorised Parker outlets, one was Harrods) and both have the French 18K hallmark on the nibs along with the Parker Meru maker's mark so pretty certain the nibs were made in France

 

Do you mean such mark?

 

[Matlock]

51 minutes ago, aurore said:

 

Do you mean such mark?

 

No, the pp divided by the Parker arrow, this is the mark for Parker Meru. On the opposite side is the eagle's head which is the French Hallmark for 18k gold.

[Matlock]

20 minutes ago, Matlock said:

No, the pp divided by the Parker arrow, this is the mark for Parker Meru. On the opposite side is the eagle's head which is the French Hallmark for 18k gold.

 This is the French Hallmark for 18K gold