Montblanc 139 star staining

[mcannad1]

I started to notice some staining appearing on my Montblanc 139 star today.  It seems that some ink had leaked inside the cap and was running out along the seams of the star.  I was able to use some light water to clean most of the staining off.  I'm now worried that it may happen again though.  Is there anything I can do to reset the star or seal the inside of the cap to prevent ink from running out through the seams of the star and staining again?

[KAC]

I've had that problem with a couple of vintage MB fountain pens and I've never been able to figure out a solution. Simple soaking in water or water plus a little dish soap hasn't worked for me and I've been reluctant to attempt anything more aggressive. So, if you find a viable solution, I'll appreciate trying it.

[Michael R.]

I would drop a few drops of molten paraffine or candle wax/bee wax into the cap to seal it from the inside.

[NoType]

2 hours ago, Michael R. said:

I would drop a few drops of molten paraffine or candle wax/bee wax into the cap to seal it from the inside.

@Michael R. Being unfamiliar with vintage fountain pens, I wondered if the ink leak described by the OP is a normal occurrence.  Your solution to seal the cap from the inside seems an effective bandaid to prevent further staining of the snow cap, but is it possible to prevent the ink leak inside the cap from recurring in the first place?  Or is that route so fraught with difficulty and effort as to be infeasible and impracticable?

[Paul-in-SF]

I would recommend Capt. Tolley's penetrating sealant over melted wax, if you are going to try to seal leaks from the inside. Capt. Tolley's will seek out the tiniest leaks and fill them with a minimum amount of substance. Plus I have more confidence that there are no unwanted substances in it that might harm the pen, than I would with paraffin or beeswax. 

 

That said, I would try to find an expert opinion about whether it is advisable to try to plug leaks from the inside of the cap, when you can't really see what you're doing. Those are wonderful pens and it would be a shame to cause any damage or interfere with normal functionality. 

[NoType]

2 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

Capt. Tolley's will seek out the tiniest leaks and fill them with a minimum amount of substance

@Paul-in-SFThis is very good information, and definitely worth making a note of for future reference.  Thank you.

[Seney724]

@mcannad1: 

You are talking about a MB 139, man!

Don't even think about screwing around with it yourself!

Reach out to either @fountainbel or @Maxpens

[NoType]

4 minutes ago, Seney724 said:

Reach out to either @fountainbel or @Maxpens

@Seney724 Always good advise, and probably what @Paul-in-SF meant by:

 

2 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

I would try to find an expert opinion

 

[Michael R.]

I use wax or paraffin of some sort as it is reversible and should not do any harm to the pen's material.

The way the older Montblanc pens (12x and 13x) are constructed it is a common occurrence. The cap top is made from either celluloid or ebonite (depending on the age of the pen) and the star is inserted as a separate piece but also (again depending on the age of the pen) made from a different material (casein). Depending on care and exposure to water/humidity the casein star may shrink and develop little cracks forming little gaps between the black cap top and white star. Those Montblanc pens did not use an inner cap additional to the cap top.

Also it is not uncommon that the star will come loose and fall out.

I've attached a few pictures of my pens showing the gap, cracking and staining.

On older pens the ink feeds were not constructed to hold a lot of ink so chances are much higher that ink will spill into the cap during handling and temperature/pressure differences.

This ink will seep into the gaps between star and cap top staining the casein star.

Only prevention will be to create a new seal (which should be reversible on a valuable pen like this).

In addition you could have the pen checked if the piston seal is tight. In case it's not this will increase the chances of spillage. However they can not be prevented 100% on those pens in my experince (especially compared to current fountain pens).

Cheers

Michael
 

PS: if your pen is ebonite & casein star don't expose to water and/or ultra sonic bath to clean staining as it will have a negative effect on both materials. A short flush with water and dry right away will be possible

P1540003 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1540006 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1530937 (1) by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1540159 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1540137 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1530131 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1440929 by pensninks, auf Flickr

[NoType]

18 minutes ago, Michael R. said:

I use wax or paraffin of some sort as it is reversible and should not do any harm to the pen's material.

The way the older Montblanc pens (12x and 13x) are constructed it is a common occurrence. The cap top is made from either celluloid or ebonite (depending on the age of the pen) and the star is inserted as a separate piece but also (again depending on the age of the pen) made from a different material (casein). Depending on care and exposure to water/humidity the casein star may shrink and develop little cracks forming little gaps between the black cap top and white star. Those Montblanc pens did not use an inner cap additional to the cap top.

Also it is not uncommon that the star will come loose and fall out.

I've attached a few pictures of my pens showing the gap, cracking and staining.

On older pens the ink feeds were not constructed to hold a lot of ink so chances are much higher that ink will spill into the cap during handling and temperature/pressure differences.

This ink will seep into the gaps between star and cap top staining the casein star.

Only prevention will be to create a new seal (which should be reversible on a valuable pen like this).

In addition you could have the pen checked if the piston seal is tight. In case it's not this will increase the chances of spillage. However they can not be prevented 100% on those pens in my experince (especially compared to current fountain pens).

Cheers

Michael
 

PS: if your pen is ebonite & casein star don't expose to water and/or ultra sonic bath to clean staining as it will have a negative effect on both materials. A short flush with water and dry right away will be possible

P1540003 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1540006 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1530937 (1) by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1540159 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1540137 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1530131 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

P1440929 by pensninks, auf Flickr

@Michael R. Thank you very much for this comprehensive explanation of ink leaks and subsequent staining in these vintage models.  It is exactly the information I was looking for, but I couldn’t have asked for an easier-to-grasp answer, made all the more accessible by the wealth of illustrative images.  You are one of the reasons why I rely on this forum for accurate information and do not feel shy to ask even basic questions.  

[Seney724]

I agree 100%.  Between his vast knowledge and his library of amazing photos, @Michael R. is an incredible resource of information.

And, even better, he shares it so willingly & generously.  He is a terrific teacher.

 

Like you, @NoType, he is one of the reasons why I am so grateful for this Forum.

 

Thank you @Michael R.!!!!

[Michael R.]

Thank you so much @Seney724 & @NoType for your nice comments! 
 

I hope that I can live up to those compliments.

 

cheers

 

Michael

[KAC]

Michael R.

 

Very informative post. I've had the same issues with staining of casein stars on a couple of my vintage MB pens due to ink stains. Every effort I've made to avoid ink leaks doesn't work so I've learned to live with the problem. Better to suffer with a minor aesthetic blemish than expending the time and effort searching for someone who might be able to replace it (at considerable cost, I'm sure).

[mcannad1]

Thanks to all who replied, this has become a really informative thread with some great options!

 

To add one more, I spoke with Osman S, who is well known for his Montblanc restoration work.  He suggested something similar to Michael's mention of Wax/Paraffin.  He has used Shellac in multiple light coats to help seal the cap top from the inside.  He has also used a light coat of Gorilla Glue, again brushed inside the cap when shellac doesn't fully seal all of the cracks/crevices. 

 

Agree with most everyone here that this work shouldn't be undertaken lightly, as it all has the potential to damage very expensive pens if not done right!

 

  

[KAC]

Osman is an expert. In fact, after an ill-advised personal attempt to "fix" a stained star in my #35, I had to send it to him for replacement. 

Perhaps I'm singularly inept, but I advise extreme caution for those inclined to put Gorilla Glue inside a vintage pen. First, it can't be removed. Second, it expands. Third, once you've made that commitment, it's irrevocable. 

 

I've learned to live with a bit of ink-staining on vintage pens and the MB "star" seems especially prone to this problem. So...

[NoType]

49 minutes ago, KAC said:

Perhaps I'm singularly inept, but I advise extreme caution for those inclined to put Gorilla Glue inside a vintage pen…

@KACOn the contrary, this seems like excellent advice.  Just contemplating this option gives me heart palpitations, and I am unfamiliar with vintage Montblancs.

[mcannad1]

Yeah, while I trust Osman entirely with anything of mine Montblanc, the Gorilla Glue option seemed like something that I would easily mess up.  I have a bit of shellac that I use for restoring other pens, so I brushed a light coating of that inside the cap top directly where the star joint connects in with the hope that the shellac will seal over any gaps from the inside.  Waiting on it to fully cure, then I'll brush one more light coat on, cure that, and see what happens.  I'll report back my findings.  

[KAC]

Gorilla Glue, in at least some formulations, is designed to foam and expand. Once it's applied, it's functionally impossible to remove. Plus, it wasn't intended to be used on "antique" plastics. 

 

Perhaps I'm too cautious, but it's probably not the optimal choice for a vintage pen and, on top of that, the glue tends to absorb liquid and discolor. I suspect it not only won't serve as a barrier to ink staining but it may even facilitate it.

[fountainbel]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:08 PM, Michael R. said:

I would drop a few drops of molten paraffine or candle wax/bee wax into the cap to seal it from the inside.

Good idea, I always apply and spread a few drops of shellack inside the cap top !

[fountainbel]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:41 PM, mcannad1 said:

Yeah, while I trust Osman entirely with anything of mine Montblanc, the Gorilla Glue option seemed like something that I would easily mess up.  I have a bit of shellac that I use for restoring other pens, so I brushed a light coating of that inside the cap top directly where the star joint connects in with the hope that the shellac will seal over any gaps from the inside.  Waiting on it to fully cure, then I'll brush one more light coat on, cure that, and see what happens.  I'll report back my findings.  

Excellent, I'm sure this will avoid any leakage !