Royal blues

[alexander_k]

Somehow I did it again and managed to buy too many Royal Blue inks. It's far from my favourite blue hue but nevertheless useful in broad nibs. In any case, it gave me the opportunity to compare them. The first picture is of what I wrote on a scrap of Lalo 100g paper. It's not a great picture but you can probably see that there's not much difference between Montblanc, Pelikan 4001 and Faber-Castell Königsblau. Pilot Blue, which was added for comparison, is similar but yet slightly more blue (apologies for the tautology but I can't put it otherwise). Also note that the unlabelled cotton swab at the bottom is Pilot Blue. 

Then I folded the paper, so that only the right part remained visible and left it exposed to the spring sun for a month. The second photograph shows the deterioration of all inks but especially of Montblanc Royal Blue and, surprisingly, Pilot Blue. Pelikan and its presumed sibling Faber-Castell fared slightly better. 

Finally, I put a wet finger across the paper and then blotted it with a tissue. All inks but Pilot Blue were affected. 

Bottom line: everything as expected, although I thought that Pilot Blue was more UV resistant. 

[yazeh]

This is a colour I avoid like the plague. I used it a lot in my university years, probably Pelikan. 

But thanks for posting your comparison, finding  

 

You're missing quite a few of other Royal blues  Rohrer & Klingner / Kaweco /Lamy /Waterman and  Akkerman 😛

 

 

[lapis]

Great! (I love comparisons.) Now I'm in no way trying to argue with you but what shows up nicely here is not that Pilot is slightly more blue but rather that MB is definitely more purple. AFAIK that is an age-old general consent.

[lapis]

  On 4/25/2024 at 6:42 PM, yazeh said:

You're missing quite a few of other Royal blues  Rohrer & Klingner / Kaweco /Lamy /Waterman and  Akkerman 😛

 

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If you're seriously getting into collecting, add in Diamine, S.T. Dupont, Octopus, Skrip (USA)....

[AceNinja]

  On 4/25/2024 at 3:54 PM, alexander_k said:

Somehow I did it again and managed to buy too many Royal Blue inks. 

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MB Royal Blue, Pelikan 4001, FC, Pilot, no, still far from "too many Royal Blue"  😆

 

I do like this kind of comparisons, thanks for sharing!

[Lithium466]

Great comparison, thank you!

I think Pilot blue is the only one of the bunch not using a methyl blue (and possibly methyl violet) base.

[mke]

  On 4/28/2024 at 2:19 PM, Lithium466 said:

I think Pilot blue is the only one of the bunch not using a methyl blue (and possibly methyl violet) base.

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If you don't do chromatography, you don't know.

[Lithium466]

That is the only one that resisted an ink eradicator in my tests, that is all I can say.

[TSherbs]

A few comments @alexander_k:

 

1) I always appreciate comparisons, and I thank you for taking the time to do these tests and to share them with us.

 

2). Wow, do I dislike the hue of Pilot Blue (which I had already suspected)

 

3) Yes, FC and Pel 4001KB look a lot alike. 

[Mercian]

@alexander_k With my Evil Enabler’s hat on, I am minded to ask you if you have ever tried Parker Quink ‘Blue’, or Parker Quink ‘Washable Blue’… 😉

Both are well-behaved inks, being wet on the nib but quick-drying on the page.

The Quink ‘Washable Blue’ is a ‘restful’ and ‘calm’ colour, and somehow Parker have made a ‘washable blue’ ink that is even paler when dry than is Pelikan 4001 Königsblau 😮

 

The Quink ‘Blue’ is the ink that I use when I want to write with ‘default blue’.
It is more-vibrant than any of the other ‘Royal Blue’ inks that I have tried, and it doesn’t look as ‘flat’ when dry as does Waterman ‘Serenity Blue’.

 

I suspect that it is similar to the Montblanc ‘Royal Blue’, but I have not yet tried that ink, as it is far more expensive than Parker Quink.

[Lithium466]

Waterman Serenity blue vs Parker Quink blue...I saw on a French forum (by someone that apparently asked Waterman/Parker directly) that these two were coming from the same tap and that only the bottles differ now, putting the slight differences on batch variations as well as constant EU regulations changes on chemicals.

 

I have both and both look similar enough to me, but I'm no expert. From a cost saving perspective on whoever is owning Parker/Waterman at the moment, it would certainly make sense for the inks to be the same, but we'd need some kind of advanced analysis to establish certitude.

[Mercian]

  On 5/3/2024 at 6:45 PM, Lithium466 said:

Waterman Serenity blue vs Parker Quink blue...I saw on a French forum (by someone that apparently asked Waterman/Parker directly) that these two were coming from the same tap and that only the bottles differ now, putting the slight differences on batch variations as well as constant EU regulations changes on chemicals.

 

I have both and both look similar enough to me, but I'm no expert. From a cost saving perspective on whoever is owning Parker/Waterman at the moment, it would certainly make sense for the inks to be the same, but we'd need some kind of advanced analysis to establish certitude.

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I have cartridges of both Quinks, and a bottle of the ‘Blue’.

I also have cartridges of Waterman ‘Florida Blue’, and a bottle of ‘Serenity Blue’.

 

The QWB is a different ink to my QB. It is paler, and it is more ‘watery’-looking (I suspect that it may contain the same dye as Quink ‘Blue’, except at a far lower concentration).
The QB in the cartridges is the same ink as the QB in the bottle.

The Waterman ‘Serenity Blue’ in my bottle is the same ink as the ‘Florida Blue’ in my cartridges.
But QWB is a different ink to WSB.

 

They’re all good, reliable inks, and they all behave well, and clean-out easily. But the three inks are all different to each other.

 

QWB is the palest, and it looks the most ‘watery’ after it has dried.

WSB dries to a darker - and more-solid, and more ‘flat’-looking - colour than does QWB.

Quink ‘Blue’ dries to a more-‘vivid’, and less ‘flat’-looking colour than WSB.
To my eye it seems to lean slightly more to the ‘violet’ side of blue than WSB does.

Both Quinks seem to offer more shading than the WSB.

 

N.b. the differences are slight, but they’re definitely there.

Of the three inks, the Quink ‘Blue’ is by far my favourite. Probably because I favour finer nibs, so prefer the darker/more-‘vivid’ Quink ‘Blue’ over the ‘flatter’ and slightly-paler WSB.

 

Whilst NR undoubtedly could re-formulate Quink ‘Blue’ to be the same ink as WSB (or vice-versa), I reckon that them doing so would have triggered lots of complaints - especially on here - from people complaining that Parker had changed Quink ‘Blue’ (or that Waterman had changed ‘Serenity Blue’).

[lapis]

Now I can't agree or disagree entirely but here's my go....

• I had often thought the same thing (honestly) and so I made paper chromatographies of the (old) W Florida vs PQ Blue years ago. Ditto the (old) W blue-black vs PQ blue-black.
• Both pairs resulted in chromatographically the same images. (I always like to say that this observation doesn't prove that they are in fact identical because chemicals like surfactants/tensides/detergents (favouring flow/wetness and lubrication) and anti-contaminants (e.g. sodium azide) aren't to be seen in this type of (paper) chromatography. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to something much better like GC-MS.
• Now that was about 15 years ago and since then W has -- as we all know -- changed the naming of their inks. At first, the inks themselves remained the same (so they [i.e. the company W] said). Later, (at least some of) their inks' compositions were somewhat changed ("verified" here somewhere on the forum).

Long story short: Times have changed, and W inks and P inks were and maybe even now are very similar if not identical (batch-wise). But both companies are/were more than 100 years old until they were bought out, first by Sanford / Newell Rubbermaid; IYAM, that's no reason to keep things the same forever.

[Lithium466]

I decided to contact Newell brands directly, more precisely their "fine writing" department, to ask if Waterman and Parker inks were the same. The first answer I got confirmed that the ink in the cartridges and the ink in the bottles were identical (which wasn't my question, but ok).

 

So I refocused my information request and got something along the lines of "the characteristics of Waterman Serenity blue and Parker Quink blue are identical, however you can't use Parker ink in a Waterman pen".

 

You can take what you want from that   I felt that the person answering wasn't a native speaker, based on the weirdish sentences formulation, and that they probably had no fountain pen experience whatsoever. It is sad when customer service people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about...

(it's probably either outsourced, because nobody in their right mind would let such email templates slip, or it's a one person show running the entire customer service department for all the Newell brands, with the help of some automated translation or AI)

[alexander_k]

  On 5/3/2024 at 3:46 PM, Mercian said:

@alexander_k With my Evil Enabler’s hat on, I am minded to ask you if you have ever tried Parker Quink ‘Blue’, or Parker Quink ‘Washable Blue’… 😉

Both are well-behaved inks, being wet on the nib but quick-drying on the page.

The Quink ‘Washable Blue’ is a ‘restful’ and ‘calm’ colour, and somehow Parker have made a ‘washable blue’ ink that is even paler when dry than is Pelikan 4001 Königsblau 😮

 

The Quink ‘Blue’ is the ink that I use when I want to write with ‘default blue’.
It is more-vibrant than any of the other ‘Royal Blue’ inks that I have tried, and it doesn’t look as ‘flat’ when dry as does Waterman ‘Serenity Blue’.

 

I suspect that it is similar to the Montblanc ‘Royal Blue’, but I have not yet tried that ink, as it is far more expensive than Parker Quink.

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  On 5/3/2024 at 6:45 PM, Lithium466 said:

Waterman Serenity blue vs Parker Quink blue...I saw on a French forum (by someone that apparently asked Waterman/Parker directly) that these two were coming from the same tap and that only the bottles differ now, putting the slight differences on batch variations as well as constant EU regulations changes on chemicals.

 

I have both and both look similar enough to me, but I'm no expert. From a cost saving perspective on whoever is owning Parker/Waterman at the moment, it would certainly make sense for the inks to be the same, but we'd need some kind of advanced analysis to establish certitude.

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Parker Quink Washable Blue is by far the worst ink I've ever used: too pale and too sensitive to UV light, useful only for diluting heavily saturated inks like Diamine Sargasso or cleaning old pens by dissolving hard-to-get remnants. Of Waterman Serenity Blue I had a few cartridges which didn't disappoint. 

[TSherbs]

  On 5/8/2024 at 11:04 AM, Lithium466 said:

I decided to contact Newell brands directly, more precisely their "fine writing" department, to ask if Waterman and Parker inks were the same. The first answer I got confirmed that the ink in the cartridges and the ink in the bottles were identical (which wasn't my question, but ok).

 

So I refocused my information request and got something along the lines of "the characteristics of Waterman Serenity blue and Parker Quink blue are identical, however you can't use Parker ink in a Waterman pen".

 

You can take what you want from that   I felt that the person answering wasn't a native speaker, based on the weirdish sentences formulation, and that they probably had no fountain pen experience whatsoever. It is sad when customer service people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about...

(it's probably either outsourced, because nobody in their right mind would let such email templates slip, or it's a one person show running the entire customer service department for all the Newell brands, with the help of some automated translation or AI)

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Thanks for sharing this. Sounds like a "yes" to me. And explains why I dislike both. 

[yazeh]

@Lithium466  I'm also not a fan of Parker  

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I needed a wetter blue than 4001 Royal Blue so got way back then, Waterman blue...don't remember what name it had before the name change (Caribbean or Florida Blue????) that I don't know it's new name either.

 

I had a dry semi-flex nibbed pen that needed a wetter ink, so Waterman blue was then before Noodlers The Wet Ink.

I got DA Royal Blue, because it was more saturated and more lubricated.........but it don't shade, so I don't use it much.

 

It is a good Royal Blue ink, there is a tinge towards purple in it. I don't regret buying it.

[Lithium466]

Waterman royal blue would be serenity blue. If you want wetter, more saturated and lubricated, Röhrer and Klingner Königsblau is a good one.
 

Otherwise, Pilot blue is always an excellent choice if you like the hue. I currently have it in a Parker 45 EFish and see shading.

 

Otherwise maybe Diamine China blue for more shading? Or the Ackerman equivalent. (Never tried but on my list)

[RJS]

  On 5/3/2024 at 10:09 PM, Mercian said:

.

Quink ‘Blue’ dries to a more-‘vivid’, and less ‘flat’-looking colour than WSB.
To my eye it seems to lean slightly more to the ‘violet’ side of blue than WSB does.

 

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The opposite for me- the WSB is far more vivid and is also less flat looking. It also leans a tad more violet. I wonder how many changes they've gone through over the last 15 years? 😮

 

 

Edit: WSB is one of my absolute favourite inks. I haven't particularly cared for the Parker Blues I've ended up with *coughworkstationarycupboardcough* over the years.