Need Handwriting suggestions. Thanks everyone.

[txomsy]

I suspect many a one confuses the spirit with the shape of the letters.

 

You do not need any kind of nib to write any script. You may need a specific one to make it look calligraphic, but letter forms will work the same whether written with or without line variation.

 

A nice thing of some italic methods is their stress on rhythm, which can make them somewhat easier if movement limited.

 

No need to expend a lot on books either. I would suggest having first a look at Operina.com, they have a reasonable number of free books available on handwriting with easy to start methods. Plus the first published one that got the style rolling publicly, Arrighi's Operina.

 

As for loops... that, too, depends on where one sets the bar for claiming 'italicity'. Soon after the first masters, new styles popped out extending serifs, adding ligatures and eventually loops.

 

As for paper position... I find it similarly radicalized. For calligraphy, it may be better some or another approach, which I will not discuss. For plain handwriting, anything that makes you more comfortable will do. Looking at copy books through the ages, one can find masters suggesting all kinds of angles, even close to 90 degrees, specially where school tables had less space or masters were less rigid, more sensible and more accommodating with student needs. So, just try and see which one works better.

 

Bottom line: for the OP. I guess that the most important is to find a style that suits your writing limitations, does not tire your hand, and then simply try to make it clear and consistent.

 

Beautiful line variation shapes may come later if, and only if, you feel like them.

[kealani]

8 minutes ago, txomsy said:

I suspect many a one confuses the spirit with the shape of the letters.

 

You do not need any kind of nib to write any script. You may need a specific one to make it look calligraphic, but letter forms will work the same whether written with or without line variation.

 

A nice thing of some italic methods is their stress on rhythm, which can make them somewhat easier if movement limited.

 

No need to expend a lot on books either. I would suggest having first a look at Operina.com, they have a reasonable number of free books available on handwriting with easy to start methods. Plus the first published one that got the style rolling publicly, Arrighi's Operina.

 

As for loops... that, too, depends on where one sets the bar for claiming 'italicity'. Soon after the first masters, new styles popped out extending serifs, adding ligatures and eventually loops.

 

As for paper position... I find it similarly radicalized. For calligraphy, it may be better some or another approach, which I will not discuss. For plain handwriting, anything that makes you more comfortable will do. Looking at copy books through the ages, one can find masters suggesting all kinds of angles, even close to 90 degrees, specially where school tables had less space or masters were less rigid, more sensible and more accommodating with student needs. So, just try and see which one works better.

 

Bottom line: for the OP. I guess that the most important is to find a style that suits your writing limitations, does not tire your hand, and then simply try to make it clear and consistent.

 

Beautiful line variation shapes may come later if, and only if, you feel like them.

This is great advice from a pro. A "lightbulb moment" to pay attention to and follow.

 

huge thanks.

k

[kealani]

On 4/25/2024 at 6:54 AM, txomsy said:

I suspect many a one confuses the spirit with the shape of the letters.

 

You do not need any kind of nib to write any script. You may need a specific one to make it look calligraphic, but letter forms will work the same whether written with or without line variation.

 

A nice thing of some italic methods is their stress on rhythm, which can make them somewhat easier if movement limited.

 

No need to expend a lot on books either. I would suggest having first a look at Operina.com, they have a reasonable number of free books available on handwriting with easy to start methods. Plus the first published one that got the style rolling publicly, Arrighi's Operina.

 

As for loops... that, too, depends on where one sets the bar for claiming 'italicity'. Soon after the first masters, new styles popped out extending serifs, adding ligatures and eventually loops.

 

As for paper position... I find it similarly radicalized. For calligraphy, it may be better some or another approach, which I will not discuss. For plain handwriting, anything that makes you more comfortable will do. Looking at copy books through the ages, one can find masters suggesting all kinds of angles, even close to 90 degrees, specially where school tables had less space or masters were less rigid, more sensible and more accommodating with student needs. So, just try and see which one works better.

 

Bottom line: for the OP. I guess that the most important is to find a style that suits your writing limitations, does not tire your hand, and then simply try to make it clear and consistent.

 

Beautiful line variation shapes may come later if, and only if, you feel like them.

Huge thanks.

I just got the Getty Dubai book and the section on "Italic Cursive" is perfect to apply to how I already write, but simpler and more legible and easier to write. I made copies of those pages to practice on.

As said earlier upthread, this book is very useful.

thanks again

k

[AmericanMonk]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:55 AM, kealani said:

The Pilot Metro body is too thin to write comfortably for me. I ordered the PILOT Prera Iro-Ai Calligraphy-Nib from Amazon because the body looked thicker, like a TWSBI Diamond 580. Not sure if it really is.

 

Be prepared to send the Prera back or gift it to someone. It is a pocket pen. The grip is slightly thicker than the Metro, but perhaps only because the Metro tapers more dramatically. The body of the Prera is thinner than the Metro.

 

The previously-mentioned Monteverde MVP is also a pocket pen. It is even smaller than the Prera.

 

The Nemosine nibs might be the best small stub solution for you (that I know of), but there are lots of 1.1mm stubs and dip nibs out there that might work, including for the Diamond 580. It is my understanding that TWSBI nibs are JoWo nibs, so (I'm no TWSBI expert and am assuming that the 580 isn't a mini) any number of #6 JoWo nibs, such as Goulet's, can be swapped into place.

[kealani]

14 minutes ago, AmericanMonk said:

 

Be prepared to send the Prera back or gift it to someone. It is a pocket pen. The grip is slightly thicker than the Metro, but perhaps only because the Metro tapers more dramatically. The body of the Prera is thinner than the Metro.

 

The previously-mentioned Monteverde MVP is also a pocket pen. It is even smaller than the Prera.

 

The Nemosine nibs might be the best small stub solution for you (that I know of), but there are lots of 1.1mm stubs and dip nibs out there that might work, including for the Diamond 580. It is my understanding that TWSBI nibs are JoWo nibs, so (I'm no TWSBI expert and am assuming that the 580 isn't a mini) any number of #6 JoWo nibs, such as Goulet's, can be swapped into place.

You're right. I'm doing an Amazon return right now. The TWSBI Diamond 580 ALR with the  1.1 stub nib is a good fit. The nib is smooth and polished and it writes well.. The Scheafer ink is too wet for it, though. I've learned that TWSBI pens can be great out of the box, or not. But, they have a great return policy. If you get a good one, it stays good.

Also the Pilot Metro, just too thin for me. Another return.

 

thanks for your help.

[AmericanMonk]

On 4/24/2024 at 7:44 AM, Mercian said:

The CM nib can still (at time of posting) be bought on the Pilot MR/Metropolitan pen, in various colours, from Jet Pens (in the USA):

 

https://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Metropolitan-Fountain-Pen-Black-Plain-Medium-Italic-Nib/pd/19271

 

Also, if one can find them, the Plumix was sold with its italic/calligraphy nibs in two even narrower grinds:

 

I wasn't aware of the Plumix options. Thanks for sharing!

The Metro availability has grown quite a bit over the past year or so. I have seen them available at Fountain Pen Revolution, Pen Chalet, and Goulet (ordered from least to most expensive).

[AmericanMonk]

4 minutes ago, kealani said:

You're right. I'm doing an Amazon return right now. The TWSBI Diamond 580 ALR with the  1.1 stub nib is a good fit. The nib is smooth and polished and it writes well.. The Scheafer ink is too wet for it, though. I've learned that TWSBI pens can be great out of the box, or not. But, they have a great return policy. If you get a good one, it stays good.

Also the Pilot Metro, just too thin for me. Another return.

 

100% agree with everything you've said (except some people have had bad experiences with TWSBI's return policy). I suppose I should have guessed that a thinner pen wouldn't be ideal and saved you some trouble. I was focused on the thinness of the lines.

 

I'm glad you found a good fit with your TWSBI.

[kealani]

22 minutes ago, AmericanMonk said:

 

100% agree with everything you've said (except some people have had bad experiences with TWSBI's return policy). I suppose I should have guessed that a thinner pen wouldn't be ideal and saved you some trouble. I was focused on the thinness of the lines.

 

I'm glad you found a good fit with your TWSBI.

If bought through Amazon Prime, the TSWBI returns are great. Not sure if bought straight from their website as I've always used Amazon.

k

[OregonJim]

Let me be another to suggest an italic script.  I am learning it myself for similar reasons.

 

I have nearly all the books suggested in the "italic" thread, but am currently working through the Lloyd Reynolds book and following his old PBS videos.  I'm using a couple of vintage Osmiroid '75 fountain pens for practicing, as I have all the different sized italic nibs for them.  However, I'm also using standard pointed-nib pens, especially when working on cursive italic, and will (eventually) custom grind a couple of nibs to italic at some point.

 

Another reason for learning and using italic for everyday handwriting comes from a purely practical standpoint.  It is one of the few scripts that will be easily readable by future (current?) generations who have not been taught traditional handwriting in school.

[kealani]

16 minutes ago, OregonJim said:

Let me be another to suggest an italic script.  I am learning it myself for similar reasons.

 

I have nearly all the books suggested in the "italic" thread, but am currently working through the Lloyd Reynolds book and following his old PBS videos.  I'm using a couple of vintage Osmiroid '75 fountain pens for practicing, as I have all the different sized italic nibs for them.  However, I'm also using standard pointed-nib pens, especially when working on cursive italic, and will (eventually) custom grind a couple of nibs to italic at some point.

 

Another reason for learning and using italic for everyday handwriting comes from a purely practical standpoint.  It is one of the few scripts that will be easily readable by future (current?) generations who have not been taught traditional handwriting in school.

Very true. I realized that there's no problem reading various "hands" on this forum, and also if one was from the generation that learned it in schools when young. But, nowadays, with texts and emails, etc, there's no "mental conditioning" nor familiarity to "read" things written by hand.

 

Yes. When I saw the chapter on "Italic Script" in the Getty Dubai book, it looked like the simplest to integrate into what I already write and make it much better. I just went through 14 practice pages in that chapter (with a pencil) and it went well.

 

Thanks for the tips.

k

[kealani]

On 4/25/2024 at 6:54 AM, txomsy said:

I suspect many a one confuses the spirit with the shape of the letters.

 

You do not need any kind of nib to write any script. You may need a specific one to make it look calligraphic, but letter forms will work the same whether written with or without line variation.

 

A nice thing of some italic methods is their stress on rhythm, which can make them somewhat easier if movement limited.

 

No need to expend a lot on books either. I would suggest having first a look at Operina.com, they have a reasonable number of free books available on handwriting with easy to start methods. Plus the first published one that got the style rolling publicly, Arrighi's Operina.

 

As for loops... that, too, depends on where one sets the bar for claiming 'italicity'. Soon after the first masters, new styles popped out extending serifs, adding ligatures and eventually loops.

 

As for paper position... I find it similarly radicalized. For calligraphy, it may be better some or another approach, which I will not discuss. For plain handwriting, anything that makes you more comfortable will do. Looking at copy books through the ages, one can find masters suggesting all kinds of angles, even close to 90 degrees, specially where school tables had less space or masters were less rigid, more sensible and more accommodating with student needs. So, just try and see which one works better.

 

Bottom line: for the OP. I guess that the most important is to find a style that suits your writing limitations, does not tire your hand, and then simply try to make it clear and consistent.

 

Beautiful line variation shapes may come later if, and only if, you feel like them.

Sorry that i've only now seen your great post input.

Coincidentally, that is what my daily practice consists of now. Testing various types of paper pens and nibs to get "feedback" that helps me write has been a big one. Also worksheets from the Sulls American Cursive to "clean up" my Palmer script, writing bigger and at a rhythm that as you say works best. Using the Getty Dubai practice sheets to unify my "printing. As you say putting effort to improve what i already have and simplify as i can. Also experimenting with various pens inks nibs to keepit interesting and fun.

 

huge thanks

k

[txomsy]

Well, looks like you are on the right track. Try to have as much fun while practicing as you can, that is the real secret, learning to love it.

 

Added, BTW I find your notes quite readable. Just enjoy improving.