Chinese character studies 中文字學

[2ouvenir]

@RedPie Good to hear from you again! 

[2ouvenir]

A new start and a new project. I replaced the moldy brush tip with a new replacement brush and inserted a brand new original ink cartridge.

 

A little (a sentence or less) each day from the following essay until I complete it. After this I will probably have to backtrack and finish the previous essay(s) I left incomplete.

 

  Quote

 

一件小事

我從鄉下跑進京城裏，一轉眼已經六年了。其間耳聞目睹的所謂國家大事，算起來也很不少；但在我心裏，都不留什麼痕跡，倘要我尋出這些事的影響來説，便只是增長了我的壞脾氣——老實説，便是教我一天比一天的看不起人。

但有一件小事，卻於我有意義，將我從壞脾氣裏拖開，使我至今忘記不得。

這是民國六年的冬天，大北風颳得正猛，我因為生計關係，不得不一早在路上走。一路幾乎遇不見人，好不容易才僱定了一輛人力車，叫他拉到S門去。不一會，北風小了，路上浮塵早已刮淨，剩下一條潔白的大道來，車伕也跑得更快。剛近S門，忽而車把上帶着一個人，慢慢地倒了。

跌倒的是一個女人，花白頭髮，衣服都很破爛。伊從馬路邊上突然向車前橫截過來；車伕已經讓開道，但伊的破棉背心沒有上扣，微風吹着，向外展開，所以終於兜着車把。幸而車伕早有點停步，否則一定要栽一個大斤斗，跌到頭破血出了。

伊伏在地上；車伕便也立住腳。我料定這老女人並沒有傷，又沒有別人看見，便很怪他多事，要是自己惹出是非，也誤了我的路。

我便對他説，“沒有什麼的。走你的罷！”

車伕毫不理會，——或者並沒有聽到，——卻放下車子，扶那老女人慢慢起來，攙着臂膊立定，問伊説：

“您怎麼啦？”

“我摔壞了。”

我想，我眼見你慢慢倒地，怎麼會摔壞呢，裝腔作勢罷了，這真可憎惡。車伕多事，也正是自討苦吃，現在你自己想法去。

車伕聽了這老女人的話，卻毫不躊躇，攙着伊的臂膊，便一步一步的向前走。我有些詫異，忙看前面，是一所巡警分駐所，大風之後，外面也不見人。這車伕扶着那老女人，便正是向那大門走去。

我這時突然感到一種異樣的感覺，覺得他滿身灰塵的後影，剎時高大了，而且愈走愈大，須仰視才見。而且他對於我，漸漸的又幾乎變成一種威壓，甚而至於要榨出皮袍下面藏着的“小”來。

我的活力這時大約有些凝滯了，坐着沒有動，也沒有想，直到看見分駐所裏走出一個巡警，才下了車。

巡警走近我説：“你自己僱車罷，他不能拉你了。”

我沒有思索的從外套袋裏抓出一大把銅元，交給巡警，説，“請你給他……”

風全住了，路上還很靜。我一路走着，幾乎怕敢想到我自己。以前的事姑且擱起，這一大把銅元又是什麼意思，獎他麼？我還能裁判車伕麼？我不能回答自己。

這事到了現在，還是時時記起。我因此也時時煞了苦痛，努力的要想到我自己。幾年來的文治武力，在我早如幼小時候所讀過的“子曰詩云”一般，背不上半句了。獨有這一件小事，卻總是浮在我眼前，有時反更分明，教我慚愧，催我自新，並增長我的勇氣和希望。

一九二〇年七月

 

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Practise along with me!

[2ouvenir]

I wrote the title today. 

 

一件小事

 

件 [piece]: depicts a person (亻) cutting a cow (牛) into pieces.

Do not confuse with 什 [what].

 

I already screwed the title up by confusing 件 with 什. Still a bit rusty from the great absence.

 

[A Smug Dill]

  On 8/24/2024 at 8:18 AM, 2ouvenir said:

件 [piece]: depicts a person (亻) cutting a cow (牛) into pieces.

Do not confuse with 什 [what].

Expand  

 

Or 牛什 — beef offal (as food served up for human consumption). 😋 While hardly a delicacy or classy food, it's sometimes considered a specialty food that may be sought after in different places in southern China (and Hong Kong, etc.)

[2ouvenir]

  On 8/24/2024 at 9:53 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

Or 牛什 — beef offal (as food served up for human consumption). 😋 While hardly a delicacy or classy food, it's sometimes considered a specialty food that may be sought after in different places in southern China (and Hong Kong, etc.)

Expand  

 

Haha, not really my thing. I think you can find that variety in pho too.

[2ouvenir]

我從鄉下跑進京城裏

 

 

(It's terrible I know. Give me some time to get used to the brush and so on!)

[2ouvenir]

⼀轉眼已經六年了

 

 

I also added some useful vocabulary that uses the character 經:

 

已經

經濟*

曾經

經過
經常

經歷

 

There's also:

 

經典

聖經

經驗

經理

總經理

 

and my favorite: 

 

神經病

 

*More on 經濟: In classical Chinese, the character 濟 originally meant "to assist" or "to help," which can extend to meanings like "aid" or "to bring something to successful completion." The term 經濟 originally meant 經世濟民, which refers to governing the state and helping the people, ensuring the well-being of society. 

[2ouvenir]

其間⽿聞⽬睹的所謂國家⼤事

 

[Mildmay89]

I've subscribed to this thread for a while and am delighted when there is a new update; I wanted to give my thanks and encouragement!

[2ouvenir]

@Mildmay89 Cheers  Every bit of encouragement counts!

 

 

  Quote

一件小事

我從鄉下跑進京城裏，一轉眼已經六年了。其間耳聞目睹的所謂國家大事，算起來也很不少；但在我心裏，都不留什麼痕跡，倘要我尋出這些事的影響來説，便只是增長了我的壞脾氣——老實説，便是教我一天比一天的看不起人。

但有一件小事，卻於我有意義，將我從壞脾氣裏拖開，使我至今忘記不得。

這是民國六年的冬天，大北風颳得正猛，我因為生計關係，不得不一早在路上走。一路幾乎遇不見人，好不容易才僱定了一輛人力車，叫他拉到S門去。不一會，北風小了，路上浮塵早已刮淨，剩下一條潔白的大道來，車伕也跑得更快。剛近S門，忽而車把上帶着一個人，慢慢地倒了。

跌倒的是一個女人，花白頭髮，衣服都很破爛。伊從馬路邊上突然向車前橫截過來；車伕已經讓開道，但伊的破棉背心沒有上扣，微風吹着，向外展開，所以終於兜着車把。幸而車伕早有點停步，否則一定要栽一個大斤斗，跌到頭破血出了。

伊伏在地上；車伕便也立住腳。我料定這老女人並沒有傷，又沒有別人看見，便很怪他多事，要是自己惹出是非，也誤了我的路。

我便對他説，“沒有什麼的。走你的罷！”

車伕毫不理會，——或者並沒有聽到，——卻放下車子，扶那老女人慢慢起來，攙着臂膊立定，問伊説：

“您怎麼啦？”

“我摔壞了。”

我想，我眼見你慢慢倒地，怎麼會摔壞呢，裝腔作勢罷了，這真可憎惡。車伕多事，也正是自討苦吃，現在你自己想法去。

車伕聽了這老女人的話，卻毫不躊躇，攙着伊的臂膊，便一步一步的向前走。我有些詫異，忙看前面，是一所巡警分駐所，大風之後，外面也不見人。這車伕扶着那老女人，便正是向那大門走去。

我這時突然感到一種異樣的感覺，覺得他滿身灰塵的後影，剎時高大了，而且愈走愈大，須仰視才見。而且他對於我，漸漸的又幾乎變成一種威壓，甚而至於要榨出皮袍下面藏着的“小”來。

我的活力這時大約有些凝滯了，坐着沒有動，也沒有想，直到看見分駐所裏走出一個巡警，才下了車。

巡警走近我説：“你自己僱車罷，他不能拉你了。”

我沒有思索的從外套袋裏抓出一大把銅元，交給巡警，説，“請你給他……”

風全住了，路上還很靜。我一路走着，幾乎怕敢想到我自己。以前的事姑且擱起，這一大把銅元又是什麼意思，獎他麼？我還能裁判車伕麼？我不能回答自己。

這事到了現在，還是時時記起。我因此也時時煞了苦痛，努力的要想到我自己。幾年來的文治武力，在我早如幼小時候所讀過的“子曰詩云”一般，背不上半句了。獨有這一件小事，卻總是浮在我眼前，有時反更分明，教我慚愧，催我自新，並增長我的勇氣和希望。

一九二〇年七月

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算起來也很不少

Considering everything, it's actually quite a lot.

This is referring to the "所謂國家大事 so-called national affairs" that the author witnessed during this time he was in the capital city. 

 

The character of the day is 算. 

It is a pictograph of two hands holding a tool made of bamboo. You can see this more clearly in the seal script. You know that when hands and tools are involved in a character, it's going to be an important one!

 

算起來 is a useful and versatile phrase to learn and use. Used as a concluding remark.

 

[例]

這段時間雖然很辛苦，但算起來還是有很多收穫的。

 

[Example]

Although this period has been tough, when you consider everything there still have been many gains.

To make it practical for people studying Chinese or Japanese, I will mention the level of the characters I highlight.

 

  Quote

算

 

Chinese proficiency for non-native speakers

HSK 1: Basic
HSK 2: Elementary
HSK 3: Lower-Intermediate
HSK 4: Intermediate
HSK 5: Upper-Intermediate
HSK 6: Advanced

 

Japanese proficiency for non-native speakers

N1: Advanced proficiency
N2: Upper-intermediate proficiency
N3: Intermediate proficiency
N4: Elementary proficiency
N5: Basic proficiency

Expand  

 

If there are any discrepancies* between the Chinese and Japanese meanings, I will try to mention them to the best of my ability.

 

算 has a similar meaning in both languages related to calculations. However, in Chinese, the character 算 has a broader range of uses (a lot of words use this character!), including both literal and figurative meanings related to calculation and assessment. In Japanese, it tends to be more specifically associated with mathematical and computational contexts.

 

In Japanese, there is usually a pronunciation** that is derived from the Chinese (音読み) and one that is more native to Japanese (訓読み). For 算, the Chinese reading is more common:

• suàn [國] and syun3 [粤] in Chinese
• サン san [音] and そろ soro [訓] in Japanese**

 

For reference, the text I am scribing is a recommended 初中 [junior high] text if you are a native, around HSK 5 or HSK 6 if you are non-native. (I did not just choose a random text to scribe!) Though I would say, content-wise, if you translated it to your comfortable language of choice, this passage is quite simple to understand. It is a short narrative on a particular personal experience, exploring themes of morality, human interaction, and self-reflection.

 

* There's even discrepancy of meaning within Chinese, e.g. for the word 算數 [lit. count numbers], in Mandarin [國] it is a verb, meaning to count; hold; matter; amount to sth, but in Cantonese [粵] it is an expression meaning that's settled; that's enough; forget about it. The Cantonese and Mandarin meanings are almost the opposite of each other! If you want to mean "forget about it" in Mandarin, you'd write 算了 instead.

 

** For more pronunciations of the character 算 and more information in general, check out https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/算. It's quite comprehensive (you have to expand some sections and click the corresponding links to view everything).

[2ouvenir]

 

 

  Quote

一件小事

我從鄉下跑進京城裏，一轉眼已經六年了。其間耳聞目睹的所謂國家大事，算起來也很不少；但在我心裏，都不留什麼痕跡，倘要我尋出這些事的影響來説，便只是增長了我的壞脾氣——老實説，便是教我一天比一天的看不起人。

但有一件小事，卻於我有意義，將我從壞脾氣裏拖開，使我至今忘記不得。

這是民國六年的冬天，大北風颳得正猛，我因為生計關係，不得不一早在路上走。一路幾乎遇不見人，好不容易才僱定了一輛人力車，叫他拉到S門去。不一會，北風小了，路上浮塵早已刮淨，剩下一條潔白的大道來，車伕也跑得更快。剛近S門，忽而車把上帶着一個人，慢慢地倒了。

跌倒的是一個女人，花白頭髮，衣服都很破爛。伊從馬路邊上突然向車前橫截過來；車伕已經讓開道，但伊的破棉背心沒有上扣，微風吹着，向外展開，所以終於兜着車把。幸而車伕早有點停步，否則一定要栽一個大斤斗，跌到頭破血出了。

伊伏在地上；車伕便也立住腳。我料定這老女人並沒有傷，又沒有別人看見，便很怪他多事，要是自己惹出是非，也誤了我的路。

我便對他説，“沒有什麼的。走你的罷！”

車伕毫不理會，——或者並沒有聽到，——卻放下車子，扶那老女人慢慢起來，攙着臂膊立定，問伊説：

“您怎麼啦？”

“我摔壞了。”

我想，我眼見你慢慢倒地，怎麼會摔壞呢，裝腔作勢罷了，這真可憎惡。車伕多事，也正是自討苦吃，現在你自己想法去。

車伕聽了這老女人的話，卻毫不躊躇，攙着伊的臂膊，便一步一步的向前走。我有些詫異，忙看前面，是一所巡警分駐所，大風之後，外面也不見人。這車伕扶着那老女人，便正是向那大門走去。

我這時突然感到一種異樣的感覺，覺得他滿身灰塵的後影，剎時高大了，而且愈走愈大，須仰視才見。而且他對於我，漸漸的又幾乎變成一種威壓，甚而至於要榨出皮袍下面藏着的“小”來。

我的活力這時大約有些凝滯了，坐着沒有動，也沒有想，直到看見分駐所裏走出一個巡警，才下了車。

巡警走近我説：“你自己僱車罷，他不能拉你了。”

我沒有思索的從外套袋裏抓出一大把銅元，交給巡警，説，“請你給他……”

風全住了，路上還很靜。我一路走着，幾乎怕敢想到我自己。以前的事姑且擱起，這一大把銅元又是什麼意思，獎他麼？我還能裁判車伕麼？我不能回答自己。

這事到了現在，還是時時記起。我因此也時時煞了苦痛，努力的要想到我自己。幾年來的文治武力，在我早如幼小時候所讀過的“子曰詩云”一般，背不上半句了。獨有這一件小事，卻總是浮在我眼前，有時反更分明，教我慚愧，催我自新，並增長我的勇氣和希望。

一九二〇年七月

Expand  

 

  Quote

心

 

Chinese proficiency for non-native speakers

HSK 1: Basic
HSK 2: Elementary
HSK 3: Lower-Intermediate
HSK 4: Intermediate
HSK 5: Upper-Intermediate
HSK 6: Advanced

 

Japanese proficiency for non-native speakers

N1: Advanced proficiency
N2: Upper-intermediate proficiency
N3: Intermediate proficiency
N4: Elementary proficiency
N5: Basic proficiency

Expand  

 

It is interesting 心 is considered a "harder" character than 算 in the HSK while it is considered "easier" in the JLPT. I guess these kinds of things can be quite arbitrary. Also the difficulty may be augmented if it is part of a compound word. 打算 is HSK 3 but 算数 is HSK 6; 小心 is HSK 3 but 良心 is HSK 6. Don't need to take these things too seriously, just an interesting reference. My guess is that if one had limited time and patience, and had to choose, say between 小心 (careful) and 良心 (conscience) you'd be better off learning the "lower difficulty" one as it would be more useful in more situations. You can cover the meaning of 良心 with other words, but it is kind of hard to replace the meaning of 小心 with more basic characters. In some sense, "lower difficulty" equates to being "more useful". Then in some ways it's better to be fluent in the lower difficulties than be only somewhat familiar through all the difficulties. If you are a word wizard, you can probably express everything in the higher levels like HSK 4-6 with the vocabulary in HSK 1-3. Do more with less. After all, words are just tools. Your eloquence is not dependent on knowing more words, but on knowing how to express clearly with what you already know. Of course, if that's your strategy, you might not understand what other people are saying if they use HSK 4-6 vocabulary lol. 

 

Idioms are a way to expand your vocabulary and expression without necessarily learning new characters. Here are some useful idioms that use relatively simple characters in Chinese and Japanese that include the character 心.

 

In Chinese:

1. 三心二意 
   - Literal Meaning: Three hearts, two minds
   - Figurative Meaning: To be indecisive, to be of two minds about something, or to be distracted and unfocused.

 

2. 心花怒放 
   - Literal Meaning: The heart's flowers bloom wildly
   - Figurative Meaning: To be overjoyed or extremely happy.

 

3. 心想事成 
   - Literal Meaning: What the heart wishes, it comes true
   - Figurative Meaning: May all your wishes come true, often used as a blessing.

 

4. 心安理得 
   - Literal Meaning: The heart is at peace, and reasoning is satisfactory
   - Figurative Meaning: To feel at ease with one's conscience or to feel justified in one's actions.

 

5. 小心翼翼 
   - Literal Meaning: Small heart, wings flapping cautiously
   - Figurative Meaning: To be very careful, cautious, or to handle something with great care.

 

In Japanese:

1. 心機一転 (しんきいってん)
   - Literal Meaning: Change of heart and mind
   - Figurative Meaning: To make a fresh start, a renewal of one’s feelings or mindset.

 

2. 安心立命 (あんしんりつめい) originates from the same phrase in Chinese
   - Literal Meaning: Peace of mind and establishment of life
   - Figurative Meaning: Finding peace of mind through understanding one’s purpose or true nature.

 

3. 心を込める (こころをこめる)
   - Literal Meaning: To put one's heart into it
   - Figurative Meaning: To do something with all one's heart, with sincerity or wholehearted effort.

 

4. 心が折れる (こころがおれる)
   - Literal Meaning: Heart breaks
   - Figurative Meaning: To be discouraged, to lose heart.

 

5. 心を許す (こころをゆるす)
   - Literal Meaning: To permit one’s heart
   - Figurative Meaning: To trust someone, to let down one's guard, or to open one’s heart to another.

 

These idioms reflect the importance of the heart (both literally and metaphorically) in expressing emotions, thoughts, and attitudes in both languages. Maybe try and use some of these in your journal entries or letter writing! I bolded my favorites to use.

 

Note when 心 is pronounced しん and when it's pronounced こころ in Japanese. You can see clearly, it's pronounced しん (based on the Chinese) when it is compounded with another kanji, while it is pronounced こころ when it is used on its own. In general, こころ is the more common pronunciation for 心, contrasting with 算 where the Chinese pronunciation さん is more common.

 

For more information on this character: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/心.

 

Look at all the compound words that use 心! So many (650 altogether, compared to 149 for 算)! I like that there is 心死 [heart dead] and 死心 [dead heart]. While both involve a sense of giving up, 心死 is about emotional exhaustion, and 死心 is about consciously deciding to stop pursuing something. 心死死心。

[A Smug Dill]

  On 8/29/2024 at 7:45 PM, 2ouvenir said:

死心 is about consciously deciding to stop pursuing something. 

Expand  

 

I'd actually interpret that expression as having one's “heart” deadset on something, as in 死心塌地 and 死心不息. 

[Number99]

  On 8/28/2024 at 10:22 PM, 2ouvenir said:

 

In Japanese, there is usually a pronunciation** that is derived from the Chinese (音読み) and one that is more native to Japanese (訓読み). For 算, the Chinese reading is more common:

• suàn [國] and syun3 [粤] in Chinese
• サン san [音] and そろ soro [訓] in Japanese**

Expand  

算 alone is not read as "そろ soro".

The only word that reads "そろ soro" for *算盤 is "そろばん soroban". The etymology or origin of why "そろばん soroban" is written with the Chinese character "算盤" is not known.

Some say it is a corruption of "swan ban," and others say it is a forced reading because there were more than 50 kanji that corresponded to this reading in the past and there were no corresponding kanji readings. There is a conventional Japanese reading of "算," but it is now obsolete and the same reading, "数 kazu" is used.

 

*The classical calculator used for calculations, "算盤" is usually written in hiragana as "そろばん" rather than in kanji.

 

  On 8/26/2024 at 4:17 PM, 2ouvenir said:

More on 經濟: In classical Chinese, the character 濟 originally meant "to assist" or "to help," which can extend to meanings like "aid" or "to bring something to successful completion." The term 經濟 originally meant 經世濟民, which refers to governing the state and helping the people, ensuring the well-being of society. 

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経済" is a **和製漢語 Wasei kango.

和製漢語 Wasei kango are supposed to be foreign words in Chinese. This is due to the fact that at the beginning of the last century, the Qing Dynasty, then the government of China, sent over 30,000 students to study at Japanese universities, and these students translated and published a large number of Japanese books into Chinese. In this context, it can be said that the Japanese language is part of the Chinese language and the Chinese language is part of the Japanese language in terms of linguistic expression. Please note that many Japanese words have become foreign words in Chinese and there are many people who think they are Chinese.

You have already described many Japanese words 和製漢語 Wasei kango as Original Chinese words in your topic.

 

**Japanese word made of Chinese characters,

 

Japanese and Chinese Wikipedias about 和製漢語 Wasei kango.

https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/和製漢語

 

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=和製漢語&wprov=rarw1

 

 

和製漢語列表。List of Wasei kango.  

Biglobe.

https://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~shu-sato/kanji/waseikango.htm

Wikipedia.

https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:和製漢語

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by Number99

[Number99]

By the way @2ouvenir, I'm confused and I think I'm asking a pretty basic question. The "Chinese as a language" you discuss in this topic is shown in traditional Chinese, is this standard Chinese? Or is it ancient Chinese? Or is it Cantonese?

😅

[A Smug Dill]

  On 8/30/2024 at 9:15 AM, Number99 said:

The "Chinese as a language" you discuss in this topic is shown in traditional Chinese, is this standard Chinese? Or is it ancient Chinese? Or is it Cantonese?

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The People's Republic of China (i.e. “mainland China”), as well as Singapore, use simplified Chinese as the respective countries' official writing systems for the Chinese language. The Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) still uses traditional Chinese as the official writing system today, as does Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (despite being part of the PRC).

 

Cantonese is a dialect of spoken Chinese, and quite likely the second most commonly used dialect (of the language, as a whole) out of hundreds.

 

Simplified Chinese, as a writing system, was only introduced in the middle of the 20th Century as a means to boost levels of literacy in mainland China (by making it easier for “the average person” there to learn). That doesn't mean traditional Chinese is “ancient Chinese”; the latter can sometimes be quite unintelligible to Chinese speakers (and readers) today, even though the hanzi character themselves are entirely recognisable.

[Number99]

  On 8/30/2024 at 10:41 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

The People's Republic of China (i.e. “mainland China”), as well as Singapore, use simplified Chinese as the respective countries' official writing systems for the Chinese language. The Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) still uses traditional Chinese as the official writing system today, as does Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (despite being part of the PRC).

 

Cantonese is a dialect of spoken Chinese, and quite likely the second most commonly used dialect (of the language, as a whole) out of hundreds.

 

Simplified Chinese, as a writing system, was only introduced in the middle of the 20th Century as a means to boost levels of literacy in mainland China (by making it easier for “the average person” there to learn). That doesn't mean traditional Chinese is “ancient Chinese”; the latter can sometimes be quite unintelligible to Chinese speakers (and readers) today, even though the hanzi character themselves are entirely recognisable.

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Thanks.

I know about that, I read that besides Mandarin and Cantonese, China has nearly a dozen major languages (dialects), which are more distant in grammar and pronunciation than the various European languages. Perhaps some of the Chinese dialects include the Chinese Korean language, which is almost identical to Korean.

I was once surprised to see a Chinese movie with Cantonese subtitles.

 

So this topic is discussing Cantonese, not Mandarin?

 

  On 8/30/2024 at 10:41 AM, A Smug Dill said:

out of hundreds.

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🤯 Is that the total number of languages in the world? (I don't think so...).

Or is it the number of dialects of  Chinese?

[2ouvenir]

  On 8/30/2024 at 4:26 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

I'd actually interpret that expression as having one's “heart” deadset on something, as in 死心塌地 and 死心不息. 

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Only if you use 死心塌地 or 死心不息 but I've rarely seen or heard these expressions used in daily life. But if you say something like 你死(咗條)心(去啦), 死心 on its own means to give up. I'm pretty sure, as I've heard or been told this millions of times. Wait... didn't you say you were from Hong Kong at some point or maybe I am mistaken? 死心 is quite a common expression to mean "give up", even in the mainland.

[2ouvenir]

  On 8/30/2024 at 9:15 AM, Number99 said:

By the way @2ouvenir, I'm confused and I think I'm asking a pretty basic question. The "Chinese as a language" you discuss in this topic is shown in traditional Chinese, is this standard Chinese? Or is it ancient Chinese? Or is it Cantonese?

😅

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@Number99 Thanks for your Japanese explanations by the way. As for the Chinese, I think @A Smug Dill already explained it quite well, but briefly: I am using traditional Chinese characters. Reason being: (1) I am originally from Hong Kong, and that's what I am used to, (2) I find it more aesthetic out of all the modern variations, (3) it is a more educational script to understand the meaning as it is closer to the history of the character. One can even go a few steps further and look at more historical scripts, which is what I sometimes do. The "simplification" process that was used to create "simplified" characters did not have aesthetics and semantics in mind, and often made the character totally unrecognizable from its original form. For more information, you can have a look at the following: Written Chinese, Simplified Chinese characters.

 

[A Smug Dill]

  On 8/30/2024 at 11:30 AM, Number99 said:

Or is it the number of dialects of  Chinese?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese#Classification

 

  Quote

Dialectologist Jerry Norman estimated that there are hundreds of mutually unintelligible varieties of Chinese. These varieties form a dialect continuum, in which differences in speech generally become more pronounced as distances increase, although there are also some sharp boundaries.

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  On 8/30/2024 at 11:30 AM, Number99 said:

So this topic is discussing Cantonese, not Mandarin?

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Most of the source texts in this thread predates PRC's simplification of the writing system.

[2ouvenir]

  On 8/30/2024 at 9:14 AM, Number99 said:

経済" is a **和製漢語 Wasei kango.

和製漢語 Wasei kango are supposed to be foreign words in Chinese. This is due to the fact that at the beginning of the last century, the Qing Dynasty, then the government of China, sent over 30,000 students to study at Japanese universities, and these students translated and published a large number of Japanese books into Chinese. In this context, it can be said that the Japanese language is part of the Chinese language and the Chinese language is part of the Japanese language in terms of linguistic expression. Please note that many Japanese words have become foreign words in Chinese and there are many people who think they are Chinese.

You have already described many Japanese words 和製漢語 Wasei kango as Original Chinese words in your topic.

Expand  

 

Well... actually 經濟 was originally Chinese. I don't think I said anything inaccurate there, and it did originally mean governance and managing state affairs. Whether it was then influenced by other factors I did not look into, but it is quite possible as language is fluid. And I am not going to waste time arguing about this matter further as you know how things are with Chinese-Japanese relations, each side will have their own favorable story. I think I might just stick back to Chinese now to ensure I don't say anything inaccurate.