Expanded nib option for the Pilot Custom 823

[dms525]

As someone whose everyday handwriting is italic, I have long wished that Pilot offered their SU or MS nibs on the Custom 823. Now, apparently, they are expanding their nib offerings from the usual F, M and B.

 

One Italian vendor reports the Custom 823 will be available through their shop with a newly issued <S> for "signature" nib. This sounds like a stub, from Pilot's description. Another European vendor reports the C823 will be available to him with a Stub (<SU>) nib in the May/June time frame. I don't know if additional Pilot #15 nibs are in the works.

 

David

[Harold]

I think there is some retailer inexperience with Pilot's nib offering going on here, so maybe take everything they say with a grain of salt while they are learning.

 

The nib that will be available on the 823 is not the SU(stub) nib, but the S(signature) nib; a completely new nib offering across all pens that was added to Pilot's catalogue last year. The signature nib is basically a coarse nib, that's the Japanese version of a triple broad nib, that has been ground in a style similar to many European triple broad nibs. That is to say, it has a somewhat straight profile at the sides, which makes it ever so slightly stubby. Note that the effect is very mild, it's nowhere near as pronounced as on Montblanc's double broad grinds for example. If you are looking for anything approaching italic, you're going to be severely disappointed.

[dms525]

5 hours ago, Harold said:

I think there is some retailer inexperience with Pilot's nib offering going on here, so maybe take everything they say with a grain of salt while they are learning.

 

The nib that will be available on the 823 is not the SU(stub) nib, but the S(signature) nib; a completely new nib offering across all pens that was added to Pilot's catalogue last year. The signature nib is basically a coarse nib, that's the Japanese version of a triple broad nib, that has been ground in a style similar to many European triple broad nibs. That is to say, it has a somewhat straight profile at the sides, which makes it ever so slightly stubby. Note that the effect is very mild, it's nowhere near as pronounced as on Montblanc's double broad grinds for example. If you are looking for anything approaching italic, you're going to be severely disappointed.

 

Thanks for this information. It is consistent with what the Italian vendor revealed. I think you are correct about the effect of vendor inexperience with Pilot nibs. Pilot's designation of the signature nib as <S>, which is the abbreviation for "stub" per most manufacturers, contributes to the confusion.

 

Do you happen to know how wide the Signature nib is? Is it the same as the <C> nib? Is it wider than Pilot's <MS> nib? Can I assume it has 2 (not 3) tines?

 

David

[Karmachanic]

 

[lascosas]

I've got the whole set of Pilot 742 nibs, including the new signature.  The 742 has a Pilot #10 nib.  The 843 is a #15.  There is no comparison between the coarse (C) nib and the signature (S).  I dipped three 742 nibs to write a few words, and have a few photos of the 3, and particularly the S nib.  And I wasted way too much time trying to turn these photos around.  Sorry.ry interesting nib, in my opinion.

[dms525]

43 minutes ago, lascosas said:

I've got the whole set of Pilot 742 nibs, including the new signature.  The 742 has a Pilot #10 nib.  The 843 is a #15.  There is no comparison between the coarse (C) nib and the signature (S).  I dipped three 742 nibs to write a few words, and have a few photos of the 3, and particularly the S nib.  And I wasted way too much time trying to turn these photos around.  Sorry.ry interesting nib, in my opinion.

 

Thanks for the nib photos and the writing sample. As best I can tell, the <S> nib does have some line variation, but is not as crisp as the <SU> nib.

 

I have had an email exchange with the vendor who says he will have the C 823 with a Stub nib.  He tells me Pilot was very specific that they will be sending him the pen with a Stub nib. My advice to him, borrowed from Ronald Reagan, is "Trust but verify."

 

David

[Harold]

There is either a lot of variance in Pilot's grinds on the signature nib or we have very different writing angles @lascosas. When I wrote with a signature nib I compared it to Pilot double broad and coarse nibs, and the width was identical to their BB(same ink and paper), hence my comment of "a coarse with the sides ground off". I guess it's best to have a look around online to get an idea of the line width with a larger sample size if anyone is planning to buy one.

[lascosas]

As I tried to show with the photos of the S nib, particularly the side angle, that tipping material is angled, the BB and C are big blobs of tipping material. 

[Harold]

13 hours ago, lascosas said:

As I tried to show with the photos of the S nib, particularly the side angle, that tipping material is angled, the BB and C are big blobs of tipping material. 

Yes, the tipping material on the S is ground on the bottom whereas it is left completely untouched on the BB and C nibs, but the BB and C nibs do also have a contact patch radius ground onto the blob around the medium-high writing angle, they're not just spheres. So if someone has a low writing angle, they're certainly going to notice the difference; they may even have found the BB annoying to write with. If they have a medium or high writing angle, they may not notice much of a difference in maximum line width, but it would still be more stubby compared to the BB.

[dms525]

An update: The vendor who told me Pilot could provide a Custom 823 with a <SU> nib subsequently heard from Pilot that they really meant a <S> nib. 

 

I can still hope that some day soon, the C 823 will be available with a <SU> or <MS> nib.

 

David

[dms525]

While I wait for Pilot to offer the C823 with a <SU> or <MS> nib, I ordered one with a <B> and had it ground to CI. A satisfactory solution, if at an added cost.

 

 

 

David

[lobato]

By the way who does your grinding? Thanks

[dms525]

2 hours ago, lobato said:

By the way who does your grinding? Thanks

I have nibs custom ground by a number of nib technicians. I have been very happy with all of their work, with rare exceptions. This particular pen was purchased from Fontoplumo inn Netherlands, and the nib was ground by their in-house "nib whisperer," Bruce S. He does really nice cursive italic grinds.

 

David

[mke]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:55 AM, dms525 said:

I can still hope that some day soon, the C 823 will be available with a <SU> or <MS> nib.

 

You need to tell your wishes directly to Pilot in Japan (not Pilot US and not Pilot Europe) - over and over again: https://ssl.pilot.co.jp/public/contact/agree.php?un=stationery&ca=support

Or on facebook https://www.facebook.com/PILOT.Corporation/ or on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/pilot_corporation/ or on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/PILOTCORP1

Write in Japanese! 

Use deepl.com (e.g.) to translate from and to Japanese.

 

[Paul-in-SF]

I bought a Custom 823 with this nib, and it arrived a few days ago. I can confirm that the tipping material is ground with a flat spot at the most likely contact angle for those with a low-ish writing angle. The tip of the nib is then curved upwards from that flat spot to the upper surface. I've tried taking a photo, but I don't seem to be able to get anything useful. I will say my nib tip seems noticeably flatter than @lascosas photos 5 and 6 above. 

 

From a description I read somewhere (and now I don't remember where) I had expected the writing surface to be even flatter, more like halfway to a stub grind but thicker. When I write with it, it's quite broad, and only a very little line variation. It is certainly my broadest nib now, and that's fine.