Montblanc Great Characters - ethics?

[marlinspike]

Muhammad Ali was one of my idols as a child, so Montblanc doing a Great Characters edition for him seems like the ideal collaboration for my interests. The Petit Prince was licensed (I'm using the term loosely, I don't know what specific agreement they had with the Petit Prince Association but it was approved of officially). The Enzo Ferrari was licensed. The Muhammad Ali, which for the limited edition 98 model they modeled after the building of the Muhammad Ali Center, Montblanc tells me has nothing to do with his family or the center. Obviously, many of the Great Characters are not licensed in any way, but this seems simply predatory to model one of the pens in the collection after the building of the non-profit founded by the man the pen is named for and not partner with the said non-profit. Are there other Montblanc pens with namesakes who have extant foundations that Montblanc has done this to?

[Arcadian]

I heard that Montblanc refuses to pay licensing fees, so they find ways around it. For the writers editions, I think they purchased something signed by the author, a letter or the like, and then used that autograpf as the basis for the pens, because when they own the signed letter, they are legally entitled to reproduce it. Apparently. 

 

 - P. 

[Carrau]

Why not spite Montblanc and help the non-profit by donating the money you would have spent on the pen to the non-profit?

[lobster]

What is the source to this?
I have a really hard time believing that Muhammad Ali Enterprises LLC would let Montblanc use his name without licensing it.

[marlinspike]

1 hour ago, lobster said:

What is the source to this?
I have a really hard time believing that Muhammad Ali Enterprises LLC would let Montblanc use his name without licensing it.

I e-mailed Montblanc and was told in reply "This collection only pays tribute to this amazing character. However, there is no alliance with this movement  or center."

[encremental]

MB's Gandhi pens did not go down well (putting it mildly) in India, and I think they were ordered to stop selling them.

 

John

[marlinspike]

1 hour ago, encremental said:

MB's Gandhi pens did not go down well (putting it mildly) in India, and I think they were ordered to stop selling them.

 

John

Just googled that. Wow, hilarious that they said we didn't mean to use his name or likeness when they named it after him and put his likeness on it.

[lobster]

On 3/4/2024 at 12:25 PM, marlinspike said:

I e-mailed Montblanc and was told in reply "This collection only pays tribute to this amazing character. However, there is no alliance with this movement  or center."

 

I don't know everything about licensing, but I would think that when you pay to use his name, you can use certain elements when designing your pen. In this case that could include the windows of the center.

 

I would think that an "alliance" involves more than licensing his name.

 

 

[marlinspike]

11 hours ago, lobster said:

 

I don't know everything about licensing, but I would think that when you pay to use his name, you can use certain elements when designing your pen. In this case that could include the windows of the center.

 

I would think that an "alliance" involves more than licensing his name.

 

 

 

I don't get the impression they licensed the name any more than they licensed Ghandi. I've emailed them asking that directly, so if they reply we'll see,  but it seems like they only bother licensee/collab when it's their fellow European involved. 

[mulrich]

On 3/3/2024 at 3:41 AM, Arcadian said:

I heard that Montblanc refuses to pay licensing fees, so they find ways around it. For the writers editions, I think they purchased something signed by the author, a letter or the like, and then used that autograpf as the basis for the pens, because when they own the signed letter, they are legally entitled to reproduce it. Apparently. 

 

 - P. 

Pretty sure you can’t get an autograph then use a person’s name or likeness with impunity. I don’t know how licensing rights persist after someone dies but even if a persons name may become free game, other things associated with that person may remain under copyright for decades. MB pens often use images and other designs that would likely require licensing from an estate or company (eg you can see copyright symbols on the Disney products). This is probably a major reason why many of the MB limited editions are built around long dead people where licensing isn’t an issue. 

[marlinspike]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:18 AM, lobster said:

 

I don't know everything about licensing, but I would think that when you pay to use his name, you can use certain elements when designing your pen. In this case that could include the windows of the center.

 

I would think that an "alliance" involves more than licensing his name.

 

 

They did not license the name is the reply they sent me

[lobster]

6 hours ago, marlinspike said:

They did not license the name is the reply they sent me

 

Either it could be costly for them, or someone at Montblanc has misunderstood the question. 

 

https://www.courthousenews.com/fox-settles-30-million-muhammad-ali-lawsuit/

[stric75]

On 3/4/2024 at 6:25 AM, marlinspike said:

I e-mailed Montblanc and was told in reply "This collection only pays tribute to this amazing character. However, there is no alliance with this movement  or center."

So, in essence, it’s Montblanc’s way of paying a homage to a “great” character but that doesn’t seem to be emphasized as such. People like to say “Nobel Price in Economics” even though such a price doesn’t exist (officially it’s Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel). 

[encremental]

Maybe it varies? I find it hard to believe that the estate of John Lennon, administered under the ever watchful eye of Yoko Ono let MB use so many likenesses, sketches etc.  without some sort of payment - I think it was issued within the same year as the John & Yoko Imagine Bedsheets Collection (!) so I'm sure the estate would have been up for it.

 

John

[Inked]

I would think that all these characters are in the public domain, just as we all are, but if you were to capitalize on something created or copyrighted by the character, then you would or should of course compensate them.

As far as legacy, I think time limits do or should apply. or subsequent generations could never create anything that is new in their minds or society. 

Besides even great characters were influenced and represented ideas that came before them or from their contemporaries.

This far along into history, there are very few if any original ideas anyways. 

 

Everything old is new again.

 

Inked

 

PS Bell bottoms are back. How long did that take? Who should be paid?