Baystate Blue is evil... Yet I can't help myself.

[txomsy]

I don't know what the specific formulation of BSB is, some other inks come close, but there is something special to BSB that makes it stand out. The problem is that something makes it also bleed and feather like crazy on many papers. I had it work well in Rhodia or Miquelrius, for instance, but most papers give poorer results.

 

You can dilute it down to 1:1 in water and it will still keep the hue and behave better (note I do not say it will be totally well-behaved on all papers), thanks to Nathan's preferences for overconcentrated ink formulations.

 

Still, I would like to know of other modifications that may improve its behavior.

 

As for pens... almost anyone will do. Just clean it (simply suck/eject water until it washes clean) before and after using BSB. BSB is a basic ink and if mixed with acidic inks it may react and produce precipitates that may clog the pen.

 

What I wouldn't advice (but do use) are some vegetable resin pens (like some Noodler's or some Indian pens) because these tend to allow fast water evaporation and BSB can become even more concentrated if left unused long enough (still, my preferred pens for BSB are two Noodler's Creaper piston pens, but that's me, YMMV).

 

[ErrantSmudge]

What surprises me is that no other ink maker has made a full-on competitor to Bay State Blue.  The formulation is clearly unique in some way, but is it really the case no other ink chemists out there are able to copy it?

[Centurion]

I had BSB, a vivid strong blue. No other blue inks are vivid and saturated in the hue of BSB? Idk, I’m just surprised, because blue is a popular color.

[Sailor Kenshin]

13 hours ago, ErrantSmudge said:

What surprises me is that no other ink maker has made a full-on competitor to Bay State Blue.  The formulation is clearly unique in some way, but is it really the case no other ink chemists out there are able to copy it?

 

I suspect that if they coulda, they already woulda.

[ErrantSmudge]

2 hours ago, Centurion said:

I had BSB, a vivid strong blue. No other blue inks are vivid and saturated in the hue of BSB? Idk, I’m just surprised, because blue is a popular color.

 

Several "What's a substitute for BSB?" threads here and on other forums have all led to the same conclusion, that BSB has no true substitute.  Other inks can match its hue, but there's a vibrancy to BSB that no other ink has.

 

2 hours ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

 

I suspect that if they coulda, they already woulda.

 

There's another possibility, and that's no competitor wants to copy it.

[txomsy]

Which may be a matter of cost.

 

I suppose making a clone wouldn't be difficult. But for that, beating Nathan's prices would. So no interest in there.

 

Making a new ink that had an advantage, with similar or better hue and vibrancy, but also good behaved might produce a "potentially" winner product. This I suppose is not so easy or it would have been done by any of the '1000-colors' ink makers.

 

But that would require a lot of testing, specially long term, on many different materials, to ensure it really is well behaved and you can safely advertise it as such.

 

Here the key word is "potentially": you need to invest in that long-term testing before hitting marker without knowing if it would succeed (either pass the tests or in market acceptation).

 

FWIW market acceptation might be high... but you'd need to pass the tests before most people phases out hand writing (which I hope won't happen, but look at the trends).

 

And now the key word is "long-term": maybe a lot of people is already working on alternatives but they are still testing them to make sure they are safe. Let's hope and dream...

 

[Patrick L]

2 hours ago, txomsy said:

Which may be a matter of cost.

 

I suppose making a clone wouldn't be difficult. But for that, beating Nathan's prices would. So no interest in there.

 

Making a new ink that had an advantage, with similar or better hue and vibrancy, but also good behaved might produce a "potentially" winner product. This I suppose is not so easy or it would have been done by any of the '1000-colors' ink makers.

 

But that would require a lot of testing, specially long term, on many different materials, to ensure it really is well behaved and you can safely advertise it as such.

 

Here the key word is "potentially": you need to invest in that long-term testing before hitting marker without knowing if it would succeed (either pass the tests or in market acceptation).

 

FWIW market acceptation might be high... but you'd need to pass the tests before most people phases out hand writing (which I hope won't happen, but look at the trends).

 

And now the key word is "long-term": maybe a lot of people is already working on alternatives but they are still testing them to make sure they are safe. Let's hope and dream...

 

I disagree with most of your post . But that doesn't mean that you are not mostly or even 100% correct.

[txomsy]

Well, mine were wild assumptions, as my knowledge of the ink business is close to nil, so most likely I am wrong. But knowing it, it makes me curious why you think there is not a BSB lookalike yet. I could get valuable insights from your opinions.

[Claes]

Have you tried this site?

https://inkswatch.com/ink.html?inkId=375

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

[RJS]

On 7/18/2024 at 6:15 PM, Sailor Kenshin said:

 

I suspect that if they coulda, they already woulda.

I politely disagree. The big ink companies wouldn't want such a troublesome ink on their books, that might damage their pens, even when used with care.

[txomsy]

I think you are missing the point. It wasn't an exact replica what was being discussed, but a competitor, something that has similar good properties (hue, pop-up, permanence) without its bad behavior.

 

For an exact replica, there already is the original at an affordable price.

 

From inkswatch, we can learn what we already know: that the closest seems to be Visconti blue, but it has much less water resistance. So, VB is a close option if one does not care about water resistance (I do).

 

Otherwise, but there are no swashes for it in inkswatch, if you value water resistance, Montblanc Permanent Blue may be a less popping near possibility (IMHO and to my eyes, YMMV).

 

[Lithium466]

I think BSB and the Baystate family of inks are very tamed acrylic inks, which is giving them waterproofness/water resistance and vibrancy, or more that "presence" on the page.

I played a bit with some acrylic inks and just diluting some give perfectly usable (short term at least!) fountain pen inks. I don't know if I would want to experiment more, maybe in a Platinum Preppy.

[Claes]

> I played a bit with some acrylic inks

 

Tell us more, please! 🙂

 

Have fun

Claes in Lund, Sweden

[amberleadavis]

On 7/22/2024 at 3:43 AM, Lithium466 said:

I think BSB and the Baystate family of inks are very tamed acrylic inks, which is giving them waterproofness/water resistance and vibrancy, or more that "presence" on the page.

I played a bit with some acrylic inks and just diluting some give perfectly usable (short term at least!) fountain pen inks. I don't know if I would want to experiment more, maybe in a Platinum Preppy.

 

Would acrylic be more fade resistant than BSB.  BSB is the fastest fading ink I have ever found.

[Claes]

@amberleadavis I have not seen the recipe @Lithium466 was following,

but since the acrylic "just" acts as a binder, it has nothing to do with fading.

The colourant most often is the culprit.

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

[Lithium466]

My apologies for missing the above question from @Claes.

 

Nothing special nor recipe, just some plain Sennelier ink and distilled water:

 

https://www.magasinsennelier.art/fr/encre-dessin-et-calligraphie/36904-6104-encre-acrylique-sennelier-abstract.html
 

(note that they sell a diluting fluid that I haven't tried)

 

Mine were bought maybe 7 or 8 years ago but don't say "Abstract", maybe this is a rebranding or just a new product, I'm not sure. Used without dilution you'd need good paper as they tend to spread, feather, and all the bad things. They work well with thin brushes too.

Diluted they are usable, my concern was a potential reaction on plastics? Maybe that's a stupid concern as some acrylic inks are sold in plastic containers.

Anyway they also work well in technical pens  

 

Edit: can't comment on lightfastness. They are not advertised as lightfast so I wouldn't count on it much...usually flashy colours aren't!

[Claes]

Thank you, @Lithium466

My acrylic experiments did all fail (i.e. those for intended dip nib use; those for conventional applications like brush, spatula &c were all successes) --- because the acrylic media available at that time had too long molecular chains, meaning that all ink just whoooshed out of the nib at first contact with the paper. Perhaps it would have sufficed admixing some grit, like a well ground ochre, to break the molecular chain and make the ink more dip nib friendly?

 

More experiments are certainly called for!

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

[Lithium466]

For dip pen use, maybe some gum arabic as thickener? I don't have gum arabic handy but I'll try the acrylic inks with dip pens, I don't remember how well (or not) they worked.

[Claes]

Oh, your Sennelier might very well work 🙂.

since it is a more modern product than those I played with in 1996.

See https://www.cecilia-letteringart.com/algonet/algonet/algonet/acrylics.htm