Starting to learn Pen photography

[Claes]

@Gadget Two more photos -- one showing the setup, the other the result.

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

[Karmachanic]

@GadgetFor inspiration go to this thread.  Start at the end and go back. Click on the images by member @Andrew_L  Then click on the link below his images for more photos of the particular nib and pen.  Crisp, clean, well composed with soft broad lighting.  Add mystery later.

 

Forwarned is four armed 🤪  Another deep wide rabit hole.

[Andrew_L]

@Karmachanic Thanks for the high rating of my work.
For not bad pen's photo, the main thing is to have a comfortable space for filming and big soft light(better two and adjustable). The main headache is really dust and fingerprints, which is difficult to notice when taking pictures, but it hurts later when preparing photos to posts.

 

ps: The camera and optic are the least important things for taking pen pictures as hobby))

[Prof Drew]

@Claes, that is really an impressive setup. I love that old Zeiss aus DDR lenses with classic Zebra stripes.

Photography and old manual lenses are another rabbit hole, although the cost of vintage gear seems to have skyrocketed in recent years.

 

For those just coming to the subject, I would like to suggest some of the newer K&F Concept Pro and other adapters which have Helicoids, meaning you can use them for macro close-up work, especially for full frame cameras that allow (magnified) Zoom focusing that is such a big help with old lenses.

[Karmachanic]

Less faff same result, with an existing FX lens for someone starting out.   JCC X Mount Macro Extensions,

 

 

 

 

[Gadget]

Fabulous to hear from you all, unfortunately i cant hit a button to say i appreciate and have read your posts but hey ho, i have been taking more and more images in the time i get to play and to be honest, close ups i can make work, ok not micro close but good enough to get a nice shot of a nib, my frustration has been with whole pen shots... and light, light i have come to realise is key, no lighty, no likey

so i had a quick go at surpressing my LED hand held lights with white paper and i couple of small props to hold the pen and cap, seems to produce much better ( In my eyes at least ) images, my next frustration is learning photo stacking and a relaible consistant method

[Gadget]

Ok many things to adjust i can see that but this was a test with stacking.. best i have so far stacking wise

And the wife wont be happy when she sees what i am using as a photo tent 🙈

 

[Andrew_L]

I made some examples of different lighting sources for photographing pens, so if you are interested, you can look by the link.

 

 

http://lenskiy.org/2024/01/some-light-sources-for-pens-shooting/

[Claes]

Spasibo, Gospodin!

 

Claes в Лунде, Швеция

[Andrew_L]

@Claes Välkomna, men du har fel. Gospoda - det är våra inte snälla grannar.

[Claes]

My sincere apologies!!!

 

Claes från Lund i Sverige.

[Gadget]

I feel i have made some personal progress @Claes and @Andrew_L props for holding items in place, a Photo box ( Home made ) and a play with photo stacking, a small addition of sharpness and a couple of other software tweeks but this is basicaly how it fell out the camera, i can see now some issues with my lighting which annoyingly i only noticed after processing but ... well you guys judge, critic is better from others with wayyy more knowledge than me

[txomsy]

You only need to see some of my pictures to realize how bad they are. I was keen on photography some time ago (long ago), but since then I hardly have the time to take a quick shot with a paltry phone camera in whatever conditions I have at the spur of the moment.

 

Product photography is a whole discipline in itself. If you are serious about your pictures (not just pens), I would very highly recommend "The Photographer's Eye" by Michael Freeman.

 

Your first pictures all had the center of attention in the center of the image. That tells me you need to learn something more about composition. Besides composition, there are a number of gestalt and psychological factors that can strongly affect pictures. You will find them all in that book.

 

That is the most dramatic improvement you can get in your pictures. As @Andrew_L says, it is not as much about technical issues as about perceptive ones.

 

The first error most of us made when venturing in Photography was thinking that the equipment was the most important element. Not so.

 

Photography means "drawing with light". Drawing aims are conveying a graphical message (hence the relevance of composition and perceptive tricks). Next comes "light" (note that equipment is not anywhere in the name, some great notorious modern  photographers worked with a handmade pinhole cardboard box).

 

As mentioned by @bsenn, light is all. Not the lighting equipment. "Natural-Light Photography" by Ansel Adams (I think this was it, but it may also be "Available light - Photographic techniques for using existing light sources" by Don Marr) is the book that can teach you to take pictures anywhere without studio equipment.

 

If you use a camera, you can just dim the lights and use a tripod (or even a home made setup like a bean bag) and increase aperture to increase depth of field. Then your needs for stacking in the computer will be greatly reduced. Playing with the placement, looking for lights and shadows will help you in many conditions.

 

Once you have mastered composition and natural light, you can consider expending money on equipment. But even then, most of it can be emulated with very cheap every-day objects (like a sheet of paper or velvet and a piece of duct tape)

 

Many cameras have already advanced capabilities, like bracketing or HDR. Learn to use them before entering additional purchases.

 

Then, you may consider learning to use the computer, a lot of pitfalls can be fixed in post-processing. GIMP is a great free alternative to Photoshop. No need to expend hard-earned money for most needs.

 

You may think you need a special lens for close ups, with a ring flash... or you can simply get a reverse lens ring adapter and use your existing 50mm to get incredibly amazing close ups by simply using it turned "backwards".

 

And so on.

 

Although I haven't touched them in (many) years, I still conserve an old 40s-50s Agfa, an old '50s Contarex Bullseye with Zeiss lenses, my dear Pentax K and PentaxK20D with a lot of M42, K and KA lenses (Pentax and Zeiss mostly), a couple of tripods (one for traveling), a very old plain flash and a handful of analog filters. Even with all that equipment, I have no specialized studio equipment, I could always do without it with very simple, trivial tricks (even the photometer, I so rarely used it that I would need to re-read the manual each time).

 

I am looking forward to find time to reuse them, but...

 

Most of the time I would expend thinking how to make the picture, looking for the right angle, sometimes waiting for the right light and shadows, etc... Which is why I do not take proper pictures any more: the ones I want require a time I no longer have. Even with modern apps to predict the proper time of day and year to be on a location to take a picture, it still demands a time I cannot harness now.

 

I was spoiled by learning to take pictures and now won't settle for less if I am to take a "non-paltry picture".

 

It is a bit like Calligraphy, I know it demands time, it was OK to go for a quickie when I was starting and getting paltry results (yet huge improvements), but now I wouldn't compromise for those results, so only practice when I know I have the time to do it properly and get better writing. "Luckily", soon I'll be so bad again that I will need quick practice once more.

 

So I do with a paltry phone and paltry photos, and with no calligraphy and paltry handwriting.

 

Beware, you have been warned.

 

I may yarn for the times when I could, but if you are serious, don't worry about equipment, you can get good results even with a smartphone. Concentrate on how will it look to others. Thinking on how it looks to ourselves is a big mistake: we all love dearly our children (flesh or intellect) and cannot be objective about them.

 

Which is why getting a couple of books may be a lot better (and a lot cheaper) than trying complex equipment setups or mastering complex algorithms.

[cunim]

Why do you want to photograph pens?  If fun with the pens is the point, a phone camera, a windowsill on a cloudy day and some basic understanding of composition will take you a long way.   If archival quality images of pens plus an artistic presentation is the point, I would recommend images by Christof on this board or fpgeeks.  Wonderful pens, beautifully seen.  Learn by looking.

 

If photography is the point, you have a long road to travel.  As others have said, product photography is not simple and, once you learn enough to turn out a pretty picture,  you will realise how far you still are from being good at it.  I am not discouraging you from photography, just suggesting that you set your priorities.

[Gadget]

Thank you @txomsy and @cunim for your considered reponses, i do absolutely take your comments on board and really appreciate your thoughts, for me at the moment, i am still going through the learning phase of everything, day light i work, evenings is when i get time mess with photography, some evenings i feel i have made progress, other evenings... meh

 

I do actually understand the concept of not having the latest tech to resolve a reasonable image, my Nikon is more than capable of doing what i want, as for Pc image editing skills, well they are rusty but polishing slowly when and if needed

 Lighting was a revelation at the start, i now have an understanding of how big a deal lighting is, photo stacking is a tick now, i can reliably create iamges and use that technique if needed

 

Studying quality images from other people has been my biggest time consumer, the study of angle, height, DOF, and not to forget the hidden trickery of pen placement, the damn things just love to roll... @cunim asks why pen photography... why not, i love pens i love a nicely taken image so why not create my own, its a hobby and something that just adds another string to the bow

 

Something that does resinate with me... time, it can take a long time to figure out composition and then you look at it and decide..actually it looks s~@t, start again

 

 

[Andrew_L]

  On 2/5/2024 at 9:08 PM, Gadget said:

i love pens i love a nicely taken image so why not create my own, its a hobby and something that just adds another string to the bow

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100% do it.

To prevent rolling, you can use level, self-made stoppers or soft fabric like corduroy.

[txomsy]

Yeah, go for it!

 

I didn't want to make it sound as a difficult endeavor. It isn't. But the fastest way to learn is by getting good explanatory advice.

 

Just by looking at other people's pictures will only -at best- make you a good imitator, with luck you may deduce some rules by yourself, but most likely you will not know what to look for and will have a hard time telling why some pics work and why others don't, and end up just mimicking what you perceive as working (which may actually not).

 

Having a look at a good book or workshop will tell you what to look for, why, and how does it work. Then, you will be able to decide on your own design and even find new ways to express yourself.

 

Your last comment...

 

  On 2/5/2024 at 9:08 PM, Gadget said:

Something that does resinate with me... time, it can take a long time to figure out composition and then you look at it and decide..actually it looks s~@t, start again

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...is typical when you do not know what you are looking for. We have all gone through it. Don't worry, it is perfectly normal.

 

The fact is, within some constrains, almost any composition/execution is good. Everything is Art. In any Art. What happens is that each instance transmits a different message.

 

Side note: Reading Baudelaire's "Une Charogne" as a teen blew my mind. Prior, I would have never thought that a stinking, rotting, abandoned carrion (carcass) might indeed provide a most beautiful allegory for love.

 

The problem when you start with form is that the interpretation comes later and it may not match what you would then like. And sometimes it may be rather difficult to find the interpretation.

 

Second side note: another epiphany came after reading Umberto Eco's "Opera Aperta" (as a teen too): in Arts, the artist is as important as the spectator. An artist it not the owner of the meaning of a work, for, unavoidably, each spectator is free to interpret in their own way (and will).

 

If you know the tricks/rules, then you can start from an intention, and interpretation/message, and then simply arrange composition to match your desire. And get it right.

 

Yeah, the first times it will not be the perfect result you expected, but as you know what you want, what to look for and how to get it, rearranging is easier and with a little practice all comes by itself.

 

Final side note: and this is mine. The difficulty for an Artist is making a work that actually reflects what they intend to express. What makes an eternal artist is that the work can transmit an inspiring message eternally, because it appeals to common feelings of all humanity. Eternal artists need not be good ones, the eternal feelings their works inspire need not be what the artist originally intended although everyone else sees a different, eternal message.

 

Not so many can conjure good artistry with eternal content.

 

But we all can (and should) try.

[Andrew_L]

  On 2/6/2024 at 11:57 AM, txomsy said:

... we all ... (... should) try.

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+100500

Lost when stopped striving to improve

[txomsy]

Never stop. It would be a pity to miss what you are still capable of.

[Gadget]

Tried a few whole pen shots and my lighting is lacking, personaly i like these type of shots which i can control easier