Pilot Elite Vintage 80's / Pilot Pocket Pen Disassembly - Help required

[AceNinja]

I've just received a vintage Pilot Elite.  It has a 14k nib, with date code H578, so this means 1978's pen correct?  (is it called 70's or 80's?)  i gave it a good soak, lots of blue ink come out.  Currently I'm trying to remove the nib and feed to give it a much thorough cleaning.

 

So far I've successful removed the cartridge piercer piece, removed the feed, but don't know how to remove the nib itself.  Below picture shows my current stage:  The section with nib, with the feed already removed.

 

Viewed under a loupe, it appears the nib has a "wing style" folds, similar to that of a Lamy safari's nib.  So my assessment is the nib should be able to be just pulled off, like a Safari's nib.  But so far I've been unsuccessful yet, so i'm not sure if my assessment is correct, and hence posting this question here in search for help.  Is the nib somehow glued to the section?  Like the modern E95S's nib is glued?  Maybe i should try a tap and pull method?  same method to remove a safari's nib?  Currently the pen is back in water soak while I typing this post.

 

The tutorial online to disassemble vintage pilot elite seems to be sparse.  And the one video i found on youtube, it's Elite model is slightly different, in that the "feed fins" is part of the section body, akin to a modern E95S.  It's nib just seem to be removed very easily after the feed is extracted/removed.

 

I reckon that there're quite a few different model of vintage Pilot Elites models, so below i post the photo of my pen before i removed the feed, to give more context of the pen model.

 

Any advice is much appreciated!

 

 

 

 

[SLinkster]

Penacea on YouTube has a video that might help. 

[AceNinja]

23 minutes ago, SLinkster said:

Penacea on YouTube has a video that might help. 

I've watched this video before, the video is disassembly of a vintage Platinum Pocket pen, similar construction, but slightly different design.  In the video's example, the platinum's nib was attached on the feed (similar to Lamy style) as he remove the feed from the section.

 

In my case, the feed has already been removed, but the nib is still attached on the section.  

 

Thanks for the suggestion though!  In fact, Penacea's video gives me confident that I can remove the cartridge piercer without the original proper tool.

[Number99]

I have never disassembled that type of pen, but below I share links to two blog posts in Japanese. Please add Japanese to the Browser's translation language.

From the blog post "物欲にまみれたニシフナバシ".

https://nisihunabasi.mods.jp/blog/?p=325

From the blog post "万年筆おやじの備忘録".

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nekopen23/archives/35192968.html

 

The nibs are friction-mated to the grooves on both sides, and the friction fit seems to be strong and quite difficult to remove.

Why do you remove the nib? I think it is better not to remove the nib unless you are replacing it.

And the blog post does not explain how to fit the nib.

 

The date code interpretation is correct, the "H" indicates that it was made at the Hiratsuka factory. All except 95S are Elite S. "S" is for "Short" S.

 

There are generally three elite nib types. I don't know because I don't have all of them, but there may be a difference in the size of the nib on each. The nib type of that pen was the last type, and later the second nib type model will be reissued as Elite 95S.

There is also a hidden Elite that is not labeled Elite on the cap.  

 

P.S.

Sending you a PM about what I can't write here.

Edited January 7 by Number99

[AceNinja]

 

Thanks for the links! Would not found by myself since I'm not searching/googling in Japanese, thanks!

So it does shows that it is not adhesive attached, but winged/folding inserted to section like Lamy's nib.  But, unlike Lamy's nib, which is inserted to the feed, this Pilot Elite's nib is inserted to the section itself, and the feed is removeable from the section with the nib still attached to the section body.

 

The blogpost also explains that it is attached way more firmly to the section than a typical Lamy nib is, and is difficult to remove.  That's what I experienced as well, I tried to pull the nib apart from the section with just using hand and fingers, felt the resistant is very high, but doesn't show any signs of movement, then i stopped, and posted here asking for advice.

 

7 hours ago, Number99 said:

Why do you remove the nib? I think it is better not to remove the nib unless you are replacing it.

And the blog post does not explain how to fit the nib.

 

My original purpose is to give a good clean, because it's a 2nd hand pen.  But, come to think of it, with the feed already removed from the section, the underside of the nib is fully exposed for cleaning.  That's where the ink is usually pooled/dried out if left inked and uncared for long period, that's where the ink will flow.  I've no need to clean the folding wing, because that part don't affect the ink flow / writing performance.  So now my conclusion is I don't need to take that nib off from the section just for cleaning purpose.

 

Still, this is good info to know that the nib is removeable like a Lamy nib, but way harder.

 

I've since reassemble the pen over the weekend and popped in a pilot blue cartridge.  It wrote great!  I've checked and adjusted for tine alignment, it is very smooth, with a little feedback.  Not a 'glassy smooth' feel as i typically heard about Pilot's gold nib.  

 

 

 

 

[AceNinja]

Another question, for the cartridge piercer.  During reassembly, which orientation should the piercer's post should aligned to?  Should it aligned facing upwards (aligned to the nib), or facing downwards (aligned to the feed direction)? 

 

By upwards and downwards what i meant is:  when written normally with fountain pen, the nib is facing upwards toward the sky.  So the nib is facing upwards, feed is facing downwards, so to speak.

 

I'm thinking the orientation maybe important in aiding proper air flow exchange.  Or maybe I'm overthinking and the orientation doesn't matter?

 

(I forgot to note down the original orientation before I unscrew it out, so.. I don't know what's it's original orientation.)

 

One way to help confirm this is if someone with other pilot pens, even modern one like Kakuno, Metro, Custom 74, etc, to look at those pen and see what's the orientation of the cartridge piercer's post.  I think all pilot pen's design is same or similar.  Unfortunately i don't have another pilot pen at hand.. so.. seeking good folks at FPN's help~!

 

 

The cartridge piercer of my Elite.

 

The gray unit is photo from another post on this forum: 

 

[AceNinja]

On 1/18/2024 at 11:29 AM, AceNinja said:

Another question, for the cartridge piercer.  During reassembly, which orientation should the piercer's post should aligned to?  Should it aligned facing upwards (aligned to the nib), or facing downwards (aligned to the feed direction)? 

 

I've managed to track down 2 x old posts where OP asks similar questions.

Seems like no one replied this OP.

 

 

At least 1 person has responded that their never disassembled pilot 78G has the cartridge piercer aligned on the same face as the nib.  

Still, I'm still would like to hear more examples from the folks or expert opinion.

[Number99]

I have examined several of them and they are mounted in random orientations. Some may be on the nib side, quite vaguely as a trend.

Some, however, are located in exactly the opposite direction.

 

There is an early Pilot Elite That is not from the same year, but it has a pipe lever filler that can be removed and a CON40 can be installed without modification.

It is not a C/C filler so of course there are no pegs on the nipple, but it works just like a pipe lever filler.

 

P.S.

I forgot to attach my previous post.

I wanted to let you know that the filler may work even if there is no peg on the section nipple.

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by Number99

[AceNinja]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:04 PM, Number99 said:

I have examined several of them and they are mounted in random orientations. Some may be on the nib side, quite vaguely as a trend.

Some, however, are located in exactly the opposite direction.

 

There is an early Pilot Elite That is not from the same year, but it has a pipe lever filler that can be removed and a CON40 can be installed without modification.

It is not a C/C filler so of course there are no pegs on the nipple, but it works just like a pipe lever filler.

 

P.S.

I forgot to attach my previous post.

I wanted to let you know that the filler may work even if there is no peg on the section nipple.

 

Thanks~!  that is good info. 

Still, I don't know why I'm a bit obsessed on this right now.  I would like to hear from people who definitely know if there is or isn't different on the orientation, and if failing that, see lots of data of what's the factory fitted position from many people, to see if there's a certain trend going on with the orientation.

 

I've further searched and found the following from youtube video who disassemble Pilot Custom 74.  The way they remove the nib and feed seems to leave the cartridge piercer staying on the feed and removed as one piece, and therefore able to see orientation of the nib to the cartridge piercer.  However, this still can't verify if this is factory position as I can't be certain if they had removed the nib and feed before making this video.

In this video, it can be seen the cartridge piercer is aligned on the same side as the nib.

 

 

In this video, as he (SBRE Brown) removed the feed, the cartridge piercer seems to be about on the same side as the nib.

But as he reassemble, the nib and piercer is oriented on opposite side.

 

 

[Nethermark]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:02 AM, AceNinja said:

I would like to hear from people who definitely know if there is or isn't different on the orientation, and if failing that, see lots of data of what's the factory fitted position from many people, to see if there's a certain trend going on with the orientation.

Just checked 10 pilot pens with the same type of cartridge piercer and there is no pattern to the orientation. There isn't any reason for a particular orientation either, as the cartridge is fully symmetric, so it doesn't matter how the piercer is oriented.

[AceNinja]

On 1/23/2024 at 4:59 PM, Nethermark said:

Just checked 10 pilot pens with the same type of cartridge piercer and there is no pattern to the orientation. There isn't any reason for a particular orientation either, as the cartridge is fully symmetric, so it doesn't matter how the piercer is oriented.

thanks!  another good data point(s) for me.

[AceNinja]

I've made a video about disassembly of this particular vintage Pilot Elite.  Hopefully it's helpful for those who have a similar pen!