Help requested to identify this Pilot fountain pen.

[Hamigua2000]

I put a similar post up on r/fountainpens, and while I've gotten a fair number of reads, I have not gotten any information.

 

I picked this pen up at a Japanese auction site. The body profile seems to be the "full-sized" Elite, basic black plastic, and it has no markings. The interesting bit is the nib. The site claimed it was a "brush tip" nib, and I was curious enough to bid on it. It is *not* gold, but rather stainless steel, but it has an unusually long and thin profile. On a whim, I tested it for flexibility, and sure enough, it does flex, a little bit. I have attached two pictures, including a nib shot.

[PithyProlix]

What was the Japanese used to describe the nib? Note that the last character of the word for "fountain pen" - 万年筆 - literally means 'brush'. 

 

I've had a couple of these and, unless they were significantly different than yours, there were Japanese nibs that were more flexible and brush-like. I have no idea what the model is. 

[Number99]

Is the nib stamped "Pilot Super Quality" or "Super Quality"?

[Hamigua2000]

It is stamped "Pilot Super Quality".

[Hamigua2000]

3 hours ago, Number99 said:

Is the nib stamped "Pilot Super Quality" or "Super Quality"?

 

11 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

What was the Japanese used to describe the nib? Note that the last character of the word for "fountain pen" - 万年筆 - literally means 'brush'. 

 

I've had a couple of these and, unless they were significantly different than yours, there were Japanese nibs that were more flexible and brush-like. I have no idea what the model is. 

It is stamped "Pilot Super Quality".

 

I know the characters for "fountain pen" and their meaning. The original Japanese was:

"PILOT SUPER QUALITY パイロット 筆先純正 ビンテージ 万年筆...", and I'm guessing that the part that was translated as "brush tip" is the part that contains 筆先純正, not 万年筆.

[Number99]

I don't know anyone who can tell me the model name of this pen. Many people in Japan are quoting the engraving on the nib as it is and re-selling it as "Super Quality".

It is a low-end pen, but for some reason many of them remain unused in the same case as the Elite.

Hmmm... "筆先" is a misuse of the Japanese word.

The word is used only for brushes, it means the tip of the brush or the way the brush moves.

Perhaps Seller chose that word to mean the Nib. I think the whole "筆先純正" makes sense and means that "the nib is genuine Pilot". (Not correct Japanese.)

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Number99

[Hamigua2000]

2 hours ago, Number99 said:

I don't know anyone who can tell me the model name of this pen. Many people in Japan are quoting the engraving on the nib as it is and re-selling it as "Super Quality".

It is a low-end pen, but for some reason many of them remain unused in the same case as the Elite.

Hmmm... "筆先" is a misuse of the Japanese word.

The word is used only for brushes, it means the tip of the brush or the way the brush moves.

Perhaps Seller chose that word to mean the Nib. I think the whole "筆先純正" makes sense and means that "the nib is genuine Pilot". (Not correct Japanese.)

 

 

Thank you. So it appears that the description is something of an ad hoc thing composed by the seller and not an actual "thing". It is interesting to me that it is difficult to actually produce a model name.

 

It writes well and it was not at all expensive, so I'm glad to have it.

 

[PithyProlix]

I was sorting through some of my pens that I stored away and I found one of my copies of this model. (I think I have another but I might be misremembering.) I can coax a little flex out of mine but I suspect the little flex it does have is due to the nib geometry - especially long in proportion to its width - and not anything to do with the metallurgy. I can't make any inference for others based on my one example, of course. 

 

I can't recall any other Pilots with a very similar nib design. It reminds me very much of the so-called "intarsia" nib (why is it called that?) of the Montblanc 32 & 34 models. Those Montblancs were first available in 1959 (see A Thorough Report On Montblanc 12/14/22/24/32/34 Series - Montblanc - The Fountain Pen Network) and, with the big assumption that Pilot followed on that Montblanc design a few years later, it might suggest circa 1960s(and I do have a hunch that Pilot was influenced strongly by Montblanc for some of their pen designs, which is something for another thread, perhaps, not to mention that I have no solid evidence for this hunch other than the design similarities, date correspondences, and evidence of popularity of some Montblanc models in Japan from recent second-hand sales there). The single spare/single cartridge design would suggest a 'lower bound' date of 1964. That said, there is no model or date imprint on the barrel and other Pilot models of that time have an imprint, if I am remembering correctly.

 

I haven't tracked when Pilot started using "Super Quality" branding for their steel nibs but that might be helpful for dating it as well.

 

I collect Elites, both short and full-length versions, and other Pilots based on the Elite - i.e. without the 'Elite' brand - and it is significantly different from any Elites I know: enough so that I really doubt it is part of the Elite family.

 

 

 

 

[Hamigua2000]

3 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

I was sorting through some of my pens that I stored away and I found one of my copies of this model. (I think I have another but I might be misremembering.) I can coax a little flex out of mine but I suspect the little flex it does have is due to the nib geometry - especially long in proportion to its width - and not anything to do with the metallurgy. I can't make any inference for others based on my one example, of course. 

 

I can't recall any other Pilots with a very similar nib design. It reminds me very much of the so-called "intarsia" nib (why is it called that?) of the Montblanc 32 & 34 models. Those Montblancs were first available in 1959 (see A Thorough Report On Montblanc 12/14/22/24/32/34 Series - Montblanc - The Fountain Pen Network) and, with the big assumption that Pilot followed on that Montblanc design a few years later, it might suggest circa 1960s(and I do have a hunch that Pilot was influenced strongly by Montblanc for some of their pen designs, which is something for another thread, perhaps, not to mention that I have no solid evidence for this hunch other than the design similarities, date correspondences, and evidence of popularity of some Montblanc models in Japan from recent second-hand sales there). The single spare/single cartridge design would suggest a 'lower bound' date of 1964. That said, there is no model or date imprint on the barrel and other Pilot models of that time have an imprint, if I am remembering correctly.

 

I haven't tracked when Pilot started using "Super Quality" branding for their steel nibs but that might be helpful for dating it as well.

 

I collect Elites, both short and full-length versions, and other Pilots based on the Elite - i.e. without the 'Elite' brand - and it is significantly different from any Elites I know: enough so that I really doubt it is part of the Elite family.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I agree that the "flex" is a product of the geometry and not the metallurgy of the nib. Thanks for all this information -- it is quite interesting.

[Erad67]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:32 AM, Hamigua2000 said:

It is interesting to me that it is difficult to actually produce a model name.

 

I've found a surprising lack of info in general about Japanese pens online (compared to major US & European brands) and what is there is pretty scattered.  As others noted, the steel "super quality" nibs were lower end pens.  The black with gold highlights things was pretty common with a lot of Japanese pens and many models by more than one maker are pretty similar looking.  My first fountain pen was very similar, if not the same, as your pen there.  Also a Pilot with a Super Quality nib.